09 syrup price ?

[white mt]

Any thoughts on what we may see for 09 syrup prices. Will the price we see know hold ,go up or down? From what I see the price for retail jugs can very from one producer to the next. What is a fair price for all the work involved.

[Fred Henderson]

My gut feeling is that the price will go thru the roof.

[royalmaple]

I just got an LL Bean catalog in the mail today.

Now I'm not sure how much they sell, but LL Bean does have a certain clientel and normally pay about 50% more than they need to as long as it comes with LL Beans tag on it. Regardless if they can get these prices that is awesome, I say go for it. As long as they are buying syrup from someone that is buying it from me, shoot for the moon.

"L.L. Bean Maine Maple Syrup"

A delicious essential for every holiday breakfast. Our 100% Grade A Medium-amber maple syrup is tapped in Maine.

Half Gallon $59.00, Quart $34.50, Pint $24.50

-----------------------------------------------------------------

How many pints do you want at 24.50, holy cow. That is great if they can sell at these prices.

[Russell Lampron]

They must be selling enough of it at those prices to keep the prices that high. They are asking more for a pint than I am selling a 1/2 gallon for.

[hard maple]

I saw those LL Bean prices about a month ago.
HOLY GIGGLYWEED
Think about though.. they sell enough to have their own custom screen print on the jugs???

[royalmaple]

Russ Keep in mind this is for Maine Syrup. Your prices are in line for NH.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_6_3.gif

[Russell Lampron]

Good one Matt,

Everyone knows that New Hampshire syrup is the best. Just need to get some of the fools that are buying the LL Bean syrup to try some.

[maple flats]

At those prices they only need to sell a small amount to cover the screen printing. LL Bean always sells at high prices.

[gmcooper]

Those prices might just be catalog prices and that might include shipping. A month or so ago I was at Maine store and syrup was less than that. They always have a bunch of syrup there and usually in several locations in the store. I have seen people buying a container or two but really hard to say how long it has been sitting on the shelf. They usually have syrup from at least 3 sources.

Just had a customer in this am for a gallon syrup. He thought I would sell him one for $28-30. I explained the current supply situation and bulk prices and poor production last year for a few areas that make a huge amount of syrup. He asked how much fall syrup we made. I said none we never do fall syrup. I did mention about the reported 1000 barrels in Quebec. He seemed to think that should have flooded the market! No! He did get a 1/2 gallon for $28.

[peacemaker]

so where do they get there syrup from theres a few maine producers on here and no of you guys said hey thats my syrup ?

[super sappy]

Peace maker and I had a few weeks work off ll bean this past summer. After talking with the Client that we worked for I realized what a huge overhead that they had. I really had no Idea how big they really were , I had this picture in my mind of chain link sole hunting boots, not world wide health spa resorts etc.. and a dream wood shop just to support the photography end of the catalogue they send out. Many people to support under that name. So I say that if they can get it they should. You never know maybe a little will trickel your way. -ss

[peacemaker]

i have to say i do love bean as well when i hiked i bought my pack from them because of there return policy and i ended up needing it the took my stinky dirty pack back and credit my card before i mailed it back to them so i could by one from a place on the trail

[royalmaple]

I thought that Maine Maple sold to them?

I'm sure it is someone on the golden road.

[peacemaker]

the golden road like in the wizard of oz ....

[gmcooper]

Maine Maple used to sell to Beans. I know Eric said it was not a good deal for them. They parted company a few years ago. Bob Smith had tried to get the account way back but not sure he ever did. If I had to make a guess it might be Jeremy Steeves as he markets fairly aggresively. Other than that I have no ideas. A friend of mine does some work for them and they are not easy to deal with. Some of their people are good and some are quite difficult.

[802maple]

The last I knew it was a Vermont Packer that supplied that account. Unless I am mistaken it is Butternut Mountain Farm from Johnson. (So Matt that would make sense why it is so high being Vermont syrup and all LOL)

[brookledge]

White Mt
I don't think anyone can tell you what prices will be a year from now.
A year ago someone would have thought 4/lb in bulk was outragish. Well I sold some a month ago for $4/lb. A year ago I was retailing gals @ 40 This season (March)I went to 44 and now I'm at 48 and that is still low compared to many. I try to keep my prices low but I also know that when your prices are alot lower than the average most people will feel that your syrup is of lesser quality and are afraid to buy it.
So when I'm selling bulk at 44/gal now, adding in the cost of a gal jug and my time to can it and label it I'm really not making any more money by selling a gal at 48 but I'm trying to keep my customers happy.

Now for my forecast on 09 prices.
March 09 around 3.50
Nov 09 around 4.00 again
Keith

[Cardigan99]

Maple Syrup = luxury good.

Recession = bad for luxury goods.

My guess is alot closer to $2 per pound than $4 on April 15.

[peacemaker]

802 what do u think about bulk prices in the spring

[Russell Lampron]

The bulk prices are driven by a world wide demand not just a US one. That demand has been rising by 10 to 15% a year and production has not been able to meet that the past couple of years. While we are in a recession that is worse than in other parts of the world places like Japan and China are not hurting as bad. Those are the places where demand is high and continuing to grow. I don't think that the bulk prices will drop much and if they do I don't think we will see $2.00 lb again.

[Cardigan99]

Russ, I think the Chinese are as bad or worse off than the US right now. Their govt is cutting interest rates as fast as every other industrialized country lately to stimulate demand. I suspect we buy more of their cheap 'stuff' than anyone else so if we're slowing down they're in the same boat. Also, consider this, unemployment has just begun to rise so we're going to be looking at something like 6+% come spring and likely to go higher by summer before all this 'stimulus' stuff kicks in and the dust settles. The average joe, whether here or in China isn't going to be spending too much money on syrup or syrup flavored goods. Then because of the current price of syrup there will be a whole bunch more taps in the woods than ever before. I think Supply is going to be higher and demand lower for 2009. I hope I'm wrong, I certainly don't want to see the price go down because we plan on going 'commercial' this year, but there is certainly some rough sledding ahead.

[802maple]

I know we are getting toward our goal, and when we get there we will be dropping our rate. We usaully go to what we think the prices will be if there is a bumper crop. In conversations I have had that will most likely be around 3.00 a lb. to start with and then adjusted to a more firm price when it is known how much of a crop is out there and how much the world market has dwindled due to the higher prices, which it has, atleast from our experience so far. As many of you already know we had to make a blend syrup out of Maple and Cane to keep our largest customer both from the cost and the availability of the syrup. Had we not done this, they would have been serving Vermont Maid

[802maple]

I know we are getting toward our goal, and when we get there we will be dropping our rate. We usaully go to what we think the prices will be if there is a bumper crop. In conversations I have had that will most likely be around 3.00 a lb. to start with and then adjusted to a more firm price when it is known how much of a crop is out there and how much the world market has dwindled due to the higher prices, which it has, atleast from our experience so far. As many of you already know we had to make a blend syrup out of Maple and Cane to keep our largest customer both from the cost and the availability of the syrup. Had we not done this, they would have been serving Vermont Maid

[802maple]

I guess I am studdering, I don't know how that happened

[Cardigan99]

802, are you 'under contract' to sell X number of gallons?

[802maple]

Nope, no contract to sell, my job is to buy. We gave up many contracts this year as we could not fill them, so that took the pressure off the other end of the plant and salesmen and women. I am still looking though, under every rock and bush for more syrup.

[white mt]

I sell 98% of my syrup retail. I wont be going down on price, if any thing It will go up a little. I just have to keep in mind if the price is to high some customers may shy away from buying and go without.

[royalmaple]

Jerry I just got back from my parents house and mentioned the ll bean syrup to them and they told me they were there last week and saw vermont labels on the jugs. But funny thing was the ad in the flyer was showing made maple syrup from maine tapped trees. I could care less, just thought it was interesting.

So you must have missed a rock. I just turned over a piece of sheet metal and found 10 more drums full!!!

[gmcooper]

802 Maple some of the syrup at Beans is Brown Family from VT. Took me a bit to remember. And yes I do believe Butternut Mountain also had syrup there. They also could be packaging the Maine syrup as well.
Mark

[802maple]

I know some of Butternuts could be Maine syrup as they also buy up there.

Matt- I didn't think about sheet metal, I guess I have to make another run. There is alot of sheetmetal out there, maybe it will drive the price down if I start looking there.

[jrthe3]

802 do you buy syrup from Ray Wiggers in NY they are the only ones in my area that i know of that buy bulk syrup then they resale it wondering how bad i am getting beat up on the price the only thing bad about them they only buy bulk one day everyone takes it there the same day so if i where to hold on to if till fall i don't know who i would sell it to that is not hundreds of miles away

[PATheron]

Jrthe- Best way to sell your stuff bulk is if you have a local CDL dealer or some kind of dealer. Theres a Canadian guy that delivers jugs etc to them. For 20$ a barrell he'll take the barrell up to Maple Grove for you. Im just not sure if there is a minimum amount of barrells. Maybe we can coordinate and you can run your barrell of barrells to my place this next year and Ill send it north with my stuff. Then you only have to come to my place. Only thing is Ill probly wait and sell it a little later in the year to try to get the best money. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

MARVELOUS THINKING THERON=What i've been telling guys for years.

[ziggy]

One thing to not forget is the value of the US dollar to the Canadian dollar. With the bulk of the syrup made in Canada, Canada controls the bulk price. A weak Canadian Dollar will lower the price of Bulk syrup irreguardless of the supply vs demand. So my guess is demand will continue to rise, supply will be better and bulk price will drop some, maybe settle out about $3.25 a lb

just my 2 cents

[Jim Brown]

Jrthe3: I'm sending you a pm

Thanks
Jim

[802maple]

Actually it is supply and demand that controls it, atleast with us as long as the demand is more than the supply we will be aggressive and go after it, but there is a limit. If it goes the other way the price will drop.



One thing to not forget is the value of the US dollar to the Canadian dollar. With the bulk of the syrup made in Canada, Canada controls the bulk price. A weak Canadian Dollar will lower the price of Bulk syrup irreguardless of the supply vs demand. So my guess is demand will continue to rise, supply will be better and bulk price will drop some, maybe settle out about $3.25 a lb

just my 2 cents

[markcasper]

Hey all,

I am having a problem making a decision. I was quoted $3.80/ lb. for anything I have to sell. I kept all of my syrup from last spring and am planning on unloading this week and next.

The problem is I was going to keep 3 drums of A-1 syrup in reserve for my retail sales, as our woods is going to be thinned next fall/winter and I will lose about 1/2 my taps for the 2010 season. I will not be able to get all the tubing back up and especially if they log closer to the spring breakup.

I still will have this season for building inventory, but what if we have a bad season, what if we have off-flavor, etc etc etc.....

My sales have slowed recently as I have raised prices twice this year. My customers are clearly getting discouraged from the increase in price. (Note: I am selling retail at a small loss currently over what the bulk price is) Its dumb to sell at a loss, but even dumber to have the syrup price crash soon and then you have driven away your customers by a) raising the price too much and b)selling too much bulk and then just plain running out of syrup.

So what would you all do? I think the above mentioned is probably the situation that alot of us face. I believe that these high drum prices are not going to last and feel its a once in a blue moon oppurtunity to sell at these prices. I just feel that with the way the economy is not going, and all of the extra taps that will be going in---its a recipe to drive syrup prices to the floor once again.

[ziggy]

I would keep the 3 drums. Even if we all have a great season I don't think bulk syrup will fall below $2 a pound, which on 3 drums at $3.80 vs $2.00 is less than $1500 difference. In my opinion it is not worth loosing the retail customer base you have built for what could be as much as $1500, most likely less. The other thing to keep in mind is the north east is in the middle of a major ice storm with more bad weather on the way, and they really could use a break right now. How much more syrup are we really going to make this year? I hope those guys don't have the problems I think they are going to have. I have talked with a few and have been told their woods are a mess.

[dano2840]

im going to sell it for $50 a gal regardless, im not up to a barrel sized operation yet lol

[markcasper]

Makes me feel bad that I even brought this up, then to read some of the posts from NH. That is a shame and should remind us all that it could happen to any of us. My prayers are for the maple producers and individuals dealing with this situation.
It always seems that they alwys get the nasty ice storms out east. It seems that here in Wis., the storms always draw in cold air like the flip of a switch, and the rain goes to snow quickly.

[jrthe3]

sold 4 Qt to a guy today he had been online checking prices and was planing on paying around 25 a qt when he came to pick it up and i told him it was 15 a qt he got 4 more

[tuckermtn]

I think we will keep our pricing right around 15-16 per qt. Our costs have not changed much since last year now that gas prices have dropped. Equipment is paid for, sap is traded for, and my time is pretty cheap. If we were expanding and opening a new bush and had to buy more tubing, etc. then the increase in prices for the new stuff would mean we needed to raise our prices more. With the economy stalling, why raise your price if you don't have to? As jrthe3 points out, gives you an edge for sales vs. the grocery stores.

I may be wrong on this, but since bulk has gone up so much in price lately, the folks whos costs have changed have been the packers and the folks who buy from them to re-sell (grocery stores, etc). Now you can market that the consumer can buy direct from the producer and save $$$.

just my $.02

[Russell Lampron]

I am currently selling mine for $40 gal, $23 1/2 gal, $14 Qt and $8 pint. Those prices are low considering that I can get $44 gal selling it bulk but a lot of my customers are elderly and lower income. I am going to keep them at these prices for this next season and see what the bulk market does. Canada is adding 1 million new taps this year and has already made over 1000 barrels of syrup this fall. I and several other producers are adding taps this year and I have a feeling that the bulk prices are going to drop. Even at the prices that I charge there are still others in my area that are charging less. I want to keep the retail customers that I have and am going to concentrate on making more bulk syrup.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Russell,
I think you are dead on! My customer base is much like yours and your prices mirror mine almost exactly. It is also a reason that I have chosen not to try organic. My long time customer base is not particularly interested and most could not afford to pay much more for their syrup. I would feel guilty charging them more for what would be the same product. I know that there would be a new and different customer base but they wouldn't be the folks that I and my family have served for many years.
I also concur about strength of wholesale prices. I think the spike is very temporary. There is a good chance that supply will increase due to increased taps on both sides of the border (I'm guilty on this point though the expansion was planned before the price increases) and a poor economy. As Brandon has pointed out, people don't "need" maple syrup.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Russ,

I agree with you. As I stated before, I am $ 12 per quart and $ 7 per pint and if someone wants a gallon, they pay $ 48 in quarts or $ 56 in pints but no one ever complains about that. If they did, I would tell them to go check out Krogers or Walmart.

Our income level in this state is well below what it is in NE and I do this for the love of the game, not to take advantage of others and I am not saying that any of you take advantage of others but down here, 90% of people don't even know what syrup is and the 10% that do, it is a luxury item to most.

[Mike Van]

A guy down here sells hardwood furnitue made by the Amish in Pa. They also sell to Beans. L.L.'s price is DOUBLE what my friend gets, and he's making money. Was it P.T. Barnum that said "A fool & his money are soon parted" ?

[paul]

I agree with you Eric. Keep your prices reasonable and your customers will come back year after year, raise them to the level of the packer and they will surf the net and find it cheaper. Our sale from the internet have gone up 50% this year I am glad we keeped extra syrup this year.I for one will not let someone else set my prices based on their siuation. So hold on to the syrup your going to need to keep your customer happy, you could always sell whats left at the end of the year. Just My Two Cents

[220 maple]

Brandon,
That's a big 10-4 on our customer base, 90% don't know and the other 10% consider it a luxury item. That why I sold last year at prices very near to your prices. I probably will raise them slightly. The cost of jugs will be the killer. Otherwise I would leave them at last years price.

Mark 220 Maple

[NH Maplemaker]

Went to LL Beans yesterday in West Lebanon NH. Syrup was $34.50 a quart. It was flying off the self!! Kinda makes you wonder why people are so stupid? They could go to a local producer and get it for $14.00 !!Than they wonder why they are in over there heads in credit card bills!! Jim L.


NH Maplemaker

[Dave Y]

There are certain folks who just have to have LL. Bean. Makes them feel special.

[maplecrest]

i agree with russ. my price at 40 a gallon, 22 a 1/2. 14 a qt., ect. i am lossing money at the bulk price. by the time you buy the jugs, re can out of drums. labor, time, power,labels ect.but the customer base is important. unless you are like therion who is a bulk producer at the mercy of the packer.if the bottom falls out my customer base will make me more. but this year i think is rare like a season in the mid 80,s. had a new buyer call me and ask if it was my syrup i was selling. after i told him the story that i could not buy syrup and sell it at the price[ i have now] he still did not understand or buy from me thought too high. lady stopped wanted 6 bales of hay told her 4 dollars a bale she thought i was out of my mind. good luck i told her.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

You are right and most of the other guys on here don't understand the 90/10 principal as in NE, about everyone knows what maple syrup is and a lot consider it a neccessity where in WV, a very, very small percentage would consider it a neccessity. One thing I will have to say, since Nov 1st, I have had the best Nov and Dec ever and have aprox 6 quarts of syrup remaining to sell and that's it. I may increase prices next year a little, but I am pretty happy as I average $ 50 a gallon in quarts and pints only which is the same price I would get if I sold it at $ 4.00 a lb wholesale by the time you figure in the the cost of the jugs for retail. I have to run it through the filter press and bottle it anyways, so I have no intentions of wholesaling as my customer base gets a little better every year and I would have to haul the stuff at least 4 hours each way to wholesale it, so I probably don't have more than 8 hours in bottling it and labor is free and gas costs $$$.

[220 maple]

Brandon

Last spring was my best season ever, I was still short of my father's record he set in 2001. I do not have any left for sell, my wife is giving some half pints for Christmas gifts. I usually sell some wholesale every year. This past season I sold 110 gallons to Sugar Tree Country Store at McDowell, Va. The owner always pays me 5 cent more on the pound than he can get it from Henry. I deliver it to him. His camp is around 45 minutes from my camp. If you ever make more than your customer base can handle he is always in need of syrup. Last year he made over 1000 gallons himself and he told me he would probably need to buy 1000 gallon more from Henry or wherever he could find it. I usually sell 100 plus gallons a year retail. I don't push it, word of mouth and quality moves it's. I know two others in Highland County that would probably buy my syrup. The only producer that will not buy syrup is Ivan, who by the way has a new sugar shack with all new equipment, and enough stainless tanks to store 9000 gallons of raw sap. He is looking foward to syrup season in a big way.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

Glad you have a market and don't have any problem moving it. I had aprox 80 gallon to retail this year and it is all gone but about 6 quarts. Last year was my best year ever as I made 97.5 gallons, so I doubt I will make too much more than that in the future but would be nice as my customer base is expanding more every year.

As far as Ivan, I am so glad to see him back up and going. I guess he is a pretty good guy and I would imagine he got humbled quite a bit by this which might be good for him in the long run. He was the biggest producer in a large radius around him and sometimes, I think it went to his head a little.


Either way, the market didn't need to lose all the syrup he made every year.

Good luck with this coming year, we are 6 weeks or less from tapping.

[PATheron]

Brandon- Whats the story about this Ivan guy? I think that you guys are smart to keep your retail customers happy. Once the bulk prices go down, and Im sure they will, you guys will still make good money. With me its just a personal decision not to sell retail. I just have no desire to monkey with it. If it goes to 2 bucks a pound Id still rather sell it in a drum. Just me, I dont want to have to work at it all year. When sugar season is over I just want to go woodchuck hunting or something and give her heck again the next year. Ill just have to make twice as much. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Ivan Puffenbarger ran an 8,000 tap operation in the Virginia Highland mountains and I think it is around 4,000 to 4500 feet in elevation. He averaged around 2,000 gallons of syrup per year and was the largest producer in Highland County Virginia and all the surrounding areas. He is an equipment dealer and had a pretty nice setup that had been built from the ground up over the last probably 100 years and it burned to the ground this year. I would guess Ivan is at least 60 and there was an article in the MAPLE NEWS(on the front page I think) a few months ago about it. According to Mark, he has rebuilt and has all new equipment. There is many thousands of gallons of syrup produced in a 50 mile radius around him with a lot of producers and they have a massive maple festival the 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th weekends in March every year that runs on Saturday and Sunday each weekend and tens of thousands of people pour through Monterey, VA each day of the festival and the surrounding areas. These producers can't make enough syrup for the festival and all the retail demand it brings and all the other customers they have. I am sure if he had not decided to build back, someone would have likely bought him out and picked up the slack. He has the majority of his taps on vacuum coming right to his sugarhouse, so the ideal setup.

He may no longer be the largest producer and may have even more taps now. I haven't been to the festival for quite a few years due to conflicting with the end of my season and/or cleanup.

[220 maple]

Brandon,
The past several years Ivan has claimed to have had 11000 tap operation. I don't think he is the biggest in Highland County anymore, Jay Eagle of Eagles Sugar Camp at Doe Hill said he has 16000 taps. I'm pretty sure he (Jay) makes over 2000 gallons of syrup every spring. Ivan is 72 or 73 years old, I go visit Ivan and his wife Sis several times a years. He's quite the character. Do you remember the Dairy Illustrated magazine that use to hang on the wall in the old camp showing Ivan and Sis on the cover in their green Puffenbarger Sugar Orchard coats . Dairy Illustrated had written a story on them, they called them the tree milkers because they had hooked up their old dairy vacuum pump to their sugar trees. Ivan said after that article appeared in that magazine there was guys from canada and the new england states crawling all over his farm trying to figure out what was going on. Which causes me to ponder Is Ivan the grandfather of vacuuming sugar trees?
I believe that article was written in the early 70's. Maybe some of the oldtimers up north know when vacuuming started?


Mark 220 Maple

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mark,

I might have seen it but can't remember as he has a lot of stuff in his building. I have never been to Jay Eagles camp, but my dad has and it is his favorite and apparently Jay has a tremendous setup according to him and is very knowledgeable. I figured by now, someone had overtaken him in tap count.

Either way, great to see him back up. He wouldn't know me even though we talked a few times. I called him on the phone a couple of seasons ago to see how his season was going when we had a bad year down here. Hopefully his family will get interested and carry on the tradition. I would like to go and see the new setup, but difficult at best during that time of year. I remember when I was younger and talked with him, he was the biggest at the time and seemed a touch arrogant and not the easiest to talk to was my impression, but maybe just because he didn't know me.

[tiggy-at-mac.com]

I might have spent too much time thinking about this question, but here is the link to the market price analysis I did for maple syrup in 2009...

http://flavorchase.tillinghastmaple.com/2008/12/07/maple-syrup-prices-rocket-up-in-2008-may-head-back-down-in-2009.aspx

-tig
tillinghastmaple.com

[Russell Lampron]

Very good article Tig. I am no expert but feel the same way about wholesale and retail pricing for the coming year.

I too have a lot of red maples and produce a lot of that great tasting red syrup. I haven't noticed the vanilla flavor but have noticed that my syrup that has a blend of sugar maple and red maple does have a superior flavor to the syrup that I first made which was all sugar maple.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Tiggy,
Nice job of pulling a lot of info together. Like most others, I won't know until we get there but my best guestimates are about in line with yours.
Thanks for your work.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Excellent analysis Tig. I also think the priuce could drop in the short term. However with a world population of 6.5 billion, a 10 million gallon annual production allows 2/10ths of an ounce per person which seems to indicate demand could always top supply. The issue is marketing. Look at bottle water or cranberries, neither a necessity, neither particularly merchantable 20 years ago, and both are booming after being marketed in increasingly smaller units to consumers I just don't understand!

Bruce

[tiggy-at-mac.com]

Thanks, guys. I hope I'm wrong. I'd like to see the prices stay high. That + lower fuel costs could really put a kick in our season.

Will see how wrong I am this year to reformulate the process for next year.

[Cardigan99]

Tiggy, Thanks for bringing this one up again. I've been giving this one some thought for a while now and trying to gather as much data as possible. One of the things I did find is that the year-over-year price of a gallon of syrup (as given by USDA publications) is very highly correlated to alot of agricultural indicies. For example there is a 'food and beverage' index that tracks incredibly well to the price or syrup for the last 10 years or so (not a real big surprise). If I run regressions on the data, the standard deviation in forecast price is along the lines of 60 cents vs actual since 1998. If the model holds, then the published price on a gallon of syrup in 2008 will be something like $36.60. Problem is (for the price of syrup anyways) is that the level of the index (and most others) has dropped considerably since August (from something like 170 to 123 in Nov), and forecasts for 2009 are not looking that good. If the index stablizes at the 123 level for 2009 (there appears to be a degree of seasonality) based on the model then we're looking at somthing like 2.40 to 3.01 per lb.

Another quick point.

Yes, Canada produces most of the worlds syrup (something like 80% depending on the figures you read) but the US buys 80% of that number so the US price per gallon will always be higher, but I'm not sure how much control they have over the actual price, particularly since as you pointed out, the commercial buyers can switch to other sweeteners like corn syrup if their margins are getting squeezed.

Also, great point on price elasticity of the smaller producers. Like most economic concepts, they occur in a vacuum with infinite resources. In this instance the smaller producer is acting in their own self interest by considering the longer term demand for their product. Good customers always return!

Todd

[tiggy-at-mac.com]

Todd, great points. I hadn't noticed the longer-term correlation with the food price index. I guess intuitively I would have expected that to happen during normal supply years, but NOT during years like this last one, where lack of supply seemed to be a controlling factor. That's fascinating. I can see one easy correlating factor: oil prices.

All in all, my intuition (which is about all I'm going on) is that 2008's price rise can be broken out into two pieces: component cost increases and supply deficits.

On the component cost side of things, oil hit hard. When it was costing someone $12 of oil to make a gallon of syrup, the costs of sap, labor and other expendables puts the loss-making price at around $24 per gallon. That doesn't count any ammortization of sugaring equipment, which for most suppliers is a good 20-30 percent of the incremental cost of syrup (whether they or their wives know it or not).

On the supply side of things, you're right that if things get obnoxious in terms of price, and I would argue that they are right now, manufacturers are going to reformulate to move away from real maple flavoring. This is going to be highly unpredictable, however. Having once worked for Kellogg's ad agency on their account, I wouldn't want to be the brand manager who had the uphill situation of saving a couple hundred thousand dollars for the sake of having General Mills come at me with a real versus fake message. An ad budget for a relatively obscure cereal brand is $2-3 million nowadays. With consumers more actively looking for "real," "natural," and "organic" ingredients, the effect in some cases well outweighs the incremental sugar costs for a package.

I think the balance of all of these factors is on the cusp. You could see a rational manager move one way or the other. If syrup prices went up 50 percent again, it would all fall down, and the large manufacturing markets would skidaddle. As it is, though, manufacturers are being trained that maple flavoring - and real maple branding - are good for sales.

The major alternative - fenugreek seeds that can be made to make a maple-like flavor - cost $2.69 per pound in 15 lb. quantities nowadays, moving down to $2 per pound in bulk quantities. (Incidentally, since fenugreek is about 3 percent fat, good quality fake flavoring might be able to destroy a product's "zero fat" claim.) You need a lot less fenugreek seed, though, to instill a strong flavor. Still, a decision maker looking at the increasing costs across the option is going to have a lot of good rationale to stick with Maple, so long as the supply is reliable.

That's my biggest fear for the maple market. If we can't meet demand some years, then it's a no-go for some users. One analysis I haven't done that I should is the evolution of the ratio of consumer versus bulk buyers, which would tell us if the consumers can actually act as a cushion on the supply market.

-tig
tillinghastmaple.com

[220 maple]

09 Price
After making a run to get some supplies the other day from my supplier in Pa. I'm convinced that prices will fall this year. I like everyone else is expanding some. One producer in the Salisbury, Pa. area is doubling is operation and he was large in my eyes already. My equipment supplier said the Canadians have lifted the quota each producer can make, Lapierre put in a tubing extruder that has been running around the clock, the new tubing is being put in trucks and going directly to the woods. Also the Proctor Maple Research Center is running a test in Fairfield Vermont, they tapped in late October early November with 5/16ths and are going to redrill in the Spring to 7/16ths.
Proctor could have saved the money and called me I'm very confident that it will work, because when I go from 19/64ths to 7/16ths my trees act like they were just opened. Last Spring was very good I made alot of syrup and did not redrill, however if my holes had dried during the season I could have pulled the inserts and started them again. Therefore a eight to nine weeks season or possibly more if I tapped around Christmas would be very likely.

Mark 220 Maple

[maplecrest]

got the news today canadian fed. has set price at 2.72 a lb blended. canadian funds for up comming season. was in the vmsma january news letter

[markcasper]

.80 Canadian $$$= $1.00 US $$$

[caseyssugarshack93]

Hoping the syrup prices stay up :D :D

[WMF]

Mark,
Many equipment dealers also buy syrup and usually about this time of year will take any chance they get to prepare you for the lowball prices they will be offering in a couple of months hoping you will sell before the bottom falls out.
This is a spring ritual as predictable as the sun rising and setting. That's my 2 cents.

[markcasper]

I recently corresponded with area packer 3 weeks ago and he stated that bulk syrup would be down AT LEAST $1.00 lb in the spring and quite possibly much more, regardless if it was a good or poor year. At the same time he stated that he would not be buying any more syrup after December 31st. He wouldn't be buying anyumore until after the 09 has been made.

[802maple]

Right now we are still at 4 but not much longer as we have nearly enough to get us thru. What we will drop to I do not know, that is done by someone much higher up the ladder than me.

[Revi]

I'll bet the price drops a lot the second that there is any to sell from the '09 crop. The price will end up falling, but the syrup will be just as tasty.

[fred]

dont bet on it. there is some tree damage from storms and NO reserves or surplus.if canada does have an excellent year they will not flood the market , they have already learned from their mistakes.

[Russell Lampron]

The price will drop some, maybe as much as a $1 a pound by the end of the sugaring season. As the year goes along the packers will have a good idea as to how much is going to be available and will raise the prices back up if needed later in the year. You will always get the best price in the fall. With the high prices of this past year alot of syrup that had been in storage for a rainy day was sold to the packers and that surplus is used up as well so after June if the supply isn't there and the demand is the prices will go back up.

[Brian Ryther]

I heard a rumor at work yesterday that a packer found market in Asia. This costomer needs more syrup than the state ov VT produces. maybe as high as 4.40lb. Has anyone heard the same?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Nice Rumor, sounds too good to be true so...... With a worldwide recession, I am a doubter.

[Acer]

Growth markets grow even in recessions. From what I read maple is not just a breakfast item in Japan. Tuna was a few cents a pound in New England before the Japanese buyers showed up. Slime eels and sea urchins were left in the sea for lack of markets that came from asia.

Whether the rumor is true or not the market potential is tremendous in Asia.
Canada cracked the door, floodgate will open sooner or later, maple is a great product.

Dean

[Hop Kiln Road]

My guess is over $4 by the end of 09. The relation between the potential global market demand and the potential supply is heavily weighted to the demand side. Of course, a weak dollar or inflation could produce the same result. I think many of these markets will only be successfully serviced by cooperatives using centralized production. I also see traces of production mercury are being found in high fructose corn syrup...

[brookledge]

Brian
I find it hard to believe that all of a sudden there is a need of that much syrup. In 2008 Vt. produced 500,000 gal of syrup. I can see a market that may increase it's demand but to go from 0 gal to needeing more than 500,000 gal I don't believe it.
either way I hope to top my record year last year.
keith

[VtSugarhouse]

Since the average world demand for syrup is about 120 million lbs. a year and the average world production on an average year is about 110 million lbs. a year. Taken in the fact that the total production last year in both the U.S. and Canada was only about 88 million lbs. , and Canada has no back log left in stock. Even if there is another 5-8 million taps put on line this next year it will not have a major effect to the price.
I think we will see syrup start out at around the $3.00 lb mark and by the winter it will be back up to $4.00 a lb. or more even if we all have a high production year.

Just my opinion!

[Acer]

So how much is 120mlbs?
If it was all loaded on one ship a single PANAMAX could just about take it all.

http://www.imarex.com/imarex_markets/freight_derivatives/tanker_futures/tc5_panamax


Another way the entire 120million pounds would fit in a cube 114' on a side.

oops back to work.



D

[KenWP]

With all the yuppies looking for organic this and naturel that the demand for Maple syrup and surgar will increase every year. Every time somebody comes up with a new health product some kind of market increase's to cover the demand.

[briduhunt]

I can tell you this that this being my 1st year that I am going to sell my syrup I have already talked to over 50 people that are interested in purchasing my syrup. That may not seem to be anything world shattering but it does tell me that there is a large market right hear in our own area that is not being tapped. I have talked to a lot of people who want to buy the syrup and most have informed me that they have not purchases any syrup within the last 1-4 years, but when you mention to them that you are producing this item locally they all state that they will be loyal customers. Just thought I would inject this as it is a large market that we all need to worry about way before we worry about any other country buying our products. I know that this is not pertintant to the larger producers, but us smaller guys can cash in on this population.

Just my 2 cents.

[Amber Gold]

I was talking with someone pretty knowledgeable about the maple industry. He puts in about 60,000 taps and is located in Alstead, NH. I'm paraphrasing the conversation, but he doesn't think it'll be good for the maple industry as a whole if Quebec has another poor year and prices remain high. He thinks if prices remain high, especially in the current economic situation the world is in, it could reduce demand for maple syrup because consumers/companies will not justify the cost of the syrup.

I personally like the high syrup prices because there's significant costs and time accrued by the producer in getting established, producing syrup, and expanding. At the same time I don't want to see demand decrease...it's a catch-22.

[maplecrest]

josh, bruce will tell you that as he is stealing your syrup

[fred]

with these high prices Bruce's profit margin is alot smaller.he's been selling high all along!!

[Russell Lampron]

Jeff and Fred have it right. Bruce always used to have a graduated scale for what he would pay for bulk syrup and would be low balling you on the darker grades. Maple Grove put an end to that. They decided to give one price for all grades because syrup is syrup.

[royalmaple]

He's no fool, how much good does it do him to tell you he's going to pay current prices no matter what so on and so on.

It's all a justification of the lower price you will certainly see during the season prices. Some guys have to bring in syrup weekly or as they have it to pay bills. It's just they way it is, and they know it. Now are they looking out for the producer or lining their own pockets.

I guarentee you that regardless of the economy, you would see a lower rate on during the season syrup. No one made any during the winter, so the shortage is no longer there? All demand on syrup is gone? No, it is because they can do it.

If everyone could hold out on selling, they would fight for it.

Keep calling them and see when the price changes, I have a pretty good guess it will drop like a rock as soon as drums are being filled. I wonder why?

[fred]

ive bought a small amount for ever(1000 gallons)and i payed a flat rate for all grades. the big packers payed graduated amounts and sold for the same. thats why the demand for dark and c was so great. they made the most profit for something that they acted like was a bad product.look at bruce's facility it got pretty nice,fast when he locked up the b and c market.smart guy!!

[fred]

royal-

thats the problem with all farmers they always sell fast thinking that the market is going in the dumper, when they actually help cause it!!unfortunately money is a necessity so around here alot of producers are sending it in during season also.best thing is to hold on till summer.

[NH Maplemaker]

Matt has hit the nail right on the head!!! Last year when the local buyer came around he was paying under $2.00 a lb ! I end up selling in the fall for $3.50 a lb. I decided to Waite until fall as many on the trader had been saying!! As Matt said the packers know that by the end of the season we producers are getting low on funds and they take advantage of it!! They start early year and start putting the word out that the "price is going down"the "price is going down" Then they buy up as much syrup at the lower prices as they can ! After they figure out what there short they start upping the price ! The thing to remember is that it is called supply and demand !! We hold the supply and the packers have the demand. With out supply there will be NO WAY to fill the demand !! As Matt said, hold on to your syrup as long as you can and see the packers start scrambling! If you going to give your syrup away then give it to your costumers, they are to ones who stick with us year to year!!

[Amber Gold]

You guys bring up some good points. My intention is for any syrup I do sell bulk is to wait until fall to sell it. I'm trying to establish a retail market for all of my product as well as establishing a wholesale market. I figure if I have any syrup left by fall I'd sell it off bulk.

Most/all of this thread has been on prices of bulk syrup. What about wholesale and retail prices? Also how do you typically establish rates for wholesale product. I'd imagine if you're wholesaling to a store you'd sell more product. I was thinking about making wholesale prices a percentage of my retail prices, say 10-20% less. Not sure what to base it on though.

[fred]

as far as im concerned its pointless to sell syrup wholesale in a jug if you are not going to charge at least 30% above bulk prices.otherwise you are wasting time and losing money.it is no different than grain prices to make cereal. prices fluctuate and the stores know it.ive had a 20+ store base for a long time ,prices change year to year and month to month.the bottom line is its your pocket ,its up to you on how full you want it to be.

[Haynes Forest Products]

The differance between wholsale and retail is alot. Wholesale you bring it to whoever in a bucket and they take all responibility after payment. Retail you pay for the containers bottle it and By law in wisconsin you put a label on the front with your name even if they want a custom label you become the producer and distributar. And last but not least YOU guarantee the product to the customer. Let me know how you come up with a price. I would think that your going to be charging what the set price for bulk is. Like it or not Someone other than me sets the price. Now I could say screw them I aint selling but that just hurts ME. holding out can be painful.

[brookledge]

Another reason I think the prices drop in the spring from buyers like Bascom's is the spring sale. Order new equipment and get 10% discount. A lot of producers who are looking to make big purchases will want to bring in syrup to pay for equipment. So if the syrup prices are low, even though you get a 10% discount on your purchase you aren't really getting a discount at all.
Keith

[Maplepro]

Unfortunately i think Bruce is right. if the price stays to high this year i think we are all in for one hell of a surprise i will be the first to tell you that we all need more money to survive we cannot make our product at a loss but on the flip side if we sell our product at an inflated price the demand even thou great now will soon wear off i am not sure what the economic times are like in your state but i can tell you where i am from in Canada the boom is starting to fade and i will tell you when someone who normally goes out and buy a couple of gals a syrup a year for 90 buck and goes out this spring and find it going to be double he isn't going to buy it, it doesn’t make since! i don't want to be doom and gloom and i know there will be people who say they will sell out regardless well good for you but when you 3500 gal of syrup sitting in you shed and you are holding for a bigger price and it doesn’t come it can be a bitter pill to swallow

[Russell Lampron]

Chuck wholesale is where you package it in your containers and sell it to a retail outlet. That retailer, corner grocery, gift shop, health food store etc. then marks it up to sell to their customers. When you sell it 5 gallon and larger sizes it is bulk. What you sell at your sugarhouse is your retail. What I have done in the past to determine a wholesale price is take the price of bulk syrup at the time, add 25% and add the price of the container.

Example: Bulk syrup= $4lb. x 11lb.= $44/gal, plus 25%= $55/gal plus $2 for a gallon jug= $57/gal wholesale. Smaller sizes determined by their percentage of the gallon price.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Russell: I came up with about the same formula for selling my syrup to a retailer. its under the bottling thread. I did add $1.00 per container for labor. That was for small containers. When I wholesale bulk I get my 5 gallon buckets cleaned. Im looking to get some SS dums 30 gallon so I dont spend alot of time hot packing. I dont like transporting buckets on my trailer. Looks like were on the same page on wholesale/retail

[maplecrest]

was in hannaford super market last week. a year ago you could buy a half gallon of hannaford label product of canada for 16.99. i did not find a 1/2 gallon in the store from any producer. all quarts and smaller. the hannaford brand quart was 20.99. then the rest of the packers were 22 and up.a friend is going to coscos today and i asked to look at prices there be interesting to see that price range

[Amber Gold]

Russ, I like your method…it’s cut and dry. So say I wholesale all of the syrup I produce. The wholesale price I charge is the current bulk rate plus 25% plus container. Is the 25% your profit margin on the syrup or is that supposed to cover your time in getting jugs, bottling, and transportation?

At this point it looks like I’ll have some wholesale market, not sure how much of it will be retail but the more the better, and whatever’s left over will be bulk. A wholesale market I’m looking into sells a lot of syrup and maple candy and possibly cream. I spoke to them last year and they get all of their syrup/candy from upstate VT and are interested in finding a local source. I didn’t expect to get this big so I didn’t pursue it further when I was talking to them, but I think this might be a good market for my product. I’m thinking of contacting them after this season to see how much I produced, and what I have left over. With this being my first year should I look into making candy and cream, or just stick to syrup? Now that I’m thinking of it, this may be worth pursuing even if I have to supplement the order with bulk syrup. The profit margins will be smaller, but I think it’s a large market I can grow into.

For clarification, if I sell product wholesale, regardless if they have their own personalized jugs, my company information has to be on the container, correct?

Thanks

[maplecrest]

if you sell in the state of vermont

[mfchef54]

you may have to register with the usda. homeland security threat.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Josh -

Check this out.

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/NHTOC/NHTOC-XL-429.htm


Bruce

[Russell Lampron]

Josh I would just stick with syrup unless you have the extra time to devote to perfecting the cream and candy. They are both tricky to get just right and also have shelf lives to worry about.

The 25% is to cover the expense of canning,labeling and distributing etc. The extra stuff that you wouldn't be doing if you sold it bulk.

Haynes when I read your post this morning it looked like you were getting bulk and wholesale confused.

[802maple]

I just wanted to let everyone know that if you have any syrup that you want to recieve the $4.00 a lb that we are currently paying. This will be the last week.

Starting Monday, February 23rd, we will be paying an advance price of $2.50 a lb. Just like last year on June 1st we will give out what the difference is, when the price settles out.

[markcasper]

Roths and Andersons have both ceased buying syrup period, until after the season. I was told that the price will drop significantly for new syrup. I wonder if $1 / lb. is more or less than significantly!? Because thats what was floated around in December.

[802maple]

I can't speak for anyone but us. But because of the price of syrup, the economy or for whatever reason. Sales have dropped significantly, in the area of 15% which means a huge amount. We have enough syrup to get us through our projected sales until after the season. Until then it becomes a crap shoot. I believe that we are a good cross section of what is going on across the globe meaning the world market of maple syrup is down from last year. If there is a bumper crop then the price will go down, anything less who knows.
I still believe $3.00 dollars a lb is a good price for bulk syrup and my opinion is the $4.00 is to high considering the economy especially. It took nearly 15 years to rebound from the lost sales from the huge spike in prices in the late 80's and I expect it will again

[tiggy-at-mac.com]

Just a heads-up to all you guys. I'm doing a price check in stores across the country on maple syrup, and I'm including fake maple syrup like Aunt Jemima's in it. The early results: fake maple syrup is costing consumers an average of $34 per gallon. Maybe it was the high corn prices last year. Or maybe flavored sweeteners just have a natural price point.

It made a friend of mine comment, "If we're selling bulk for less than Aunt Jemima's getting, then let's make something else."

The real stuff is going from $80 per gallon to $135 per gallon (although generally sold in about 12 oz. containers). I'm working to generate enough data points to be able to create a heat map across the U.S. of price trends.

This will possibly change my analysis of predictions for this year. Probably upward, but probably not as high as the latter bits of 2008.

One interesting trend I'm seeing in looking at the industry: almost in every case, people who wait to sell their syrup until after summer make out much, much better. Because many producers are anticipating looking to switch their syrup storage to stainless or enameled steel, syrup buyers may find to their surprise that producers are storing more in 2009. There will be an overlapping set of years when they have about twice as many barrels. I know in my (very small) case, I went from having about 2/3rds storage capacity to 4/3rds storage capacity, giving me a new level of freedom in choosing when to come to market. By the way, that fellow in Buxton, ME selling 55 gal. barrels is the real deal. I got 17 of them last weekend, and they're in great condition. I promised I'd spread the word.

I've spoken to sugarmakers across the New England states, and they tend to liken selling syrup in spring to getting a check cashed at one of those high-fee check cashing outfits. I think 802Maple's arrangement of evening up later in the year is innovative and a good one, but would be even more equitable if the evening-up happened in December.

I should make very clear that I think the syrup packers are providing a great service for the producers, providing liquidity to the market. Even when they're paying low prices at the beginning of the year, that's a conscious choice agreed to by the seller. I also hear grumbling among producers about how the packers cheat the suppliers, which is hogwash in my view. If you agree to a price and a time of sale, it's primarily your fault, especially if you know the price has been higher in December for the last 120 years in a row.

Here's to a bumper crop, guys! -tig

[KenWP]

I farmed for 51 years under something called the Canadain Wheat Board and we allways sold for a set price at the begining of the year and got hopefuly a final payment at the end of the year. They sell syrup here in Quebec in almost the same way. Any of the States have crop insurance by the way.

[maplecrest]

jerry one question. if the canadian federation set the price for this year at 2.75 and the exchange rate has changed why in your thoughts is the starting price 2.50 ? i lived thru that season in the 80,s with the spike and drop and i do see it comming again. i thought that it would level somewhere at 2.90 to 3.00. what are your thoughts on that?

[802maple]

My thoughts and my thoughts alone are that the price of 2.75 will not be the final payment and I think that is what our number of 2.50 takes into effect. If we were to set our prices according to the dollar as it stands today it would be more like 2.20. All packers set a preseason price which is most likely lower than reality, But not knowing what type of season is ahead we can't set a price that will be similar to next year until we see the available crop.

There are some that say that the price is better in the fall,and majority of the time that is correct. But I have also seen the time that we didn't need to buy another lb of syrup after the 1st of June and close down purchasing of syrup. As a producer you need to keep a eye to the north when holding onto syrup for a better price

[KenWP]

I have been driving around the last two days and am amazed at how many acres of trees there are in this province that nobody is touching yet or at this time. If the Co-Op allowed a big increase in quota they could make a lot of syrup around my place alone.

[802maple]

Ken-Not far to the northeast of you there are about 3,000,000 new ones going in.

[markcasper]

Not to ruffle anyones feathers.....the spike in the US$$$$ is not going to last. There is so much manipulation going on right now that its hard to base anything off of that. The $$$US is only going up because alot of the other currencies are failing faster. This will not hold out for long. With all of the money and the kitchen sink being thrown at this, it will ultimately lead to a crash of the US dollar. This should have happened years ago, but the choice of what bubble was kept going.

I see a crash of syrup prices coming. We will not see a year pricewise like 08 for a very long time in my opinion.

BTW.....I was advised within the last week that if you eat canned foods to stock up soon. The metal price from Alcoa to the facility where I work increased 40% on January 1st. This will result in massive price increases in many consumer canned goods in the coming months. I know for a fact that the container cost more than the food product in them in most cases, especially with the smaller you go sizes.

[tuckermtn]

guess this is a quebec question- not syrup- what regions of quebec are the main maple producing regions? if I wanted to go tour some big operations in April where would I steer?

-tuckermtn

[tiggy-at-mac.com]

I'm sorry to hear about the reduced sales. Yeah, 15 percent sounds like holding your own in this economy. I hope the price doesn't destroy demand.

Some interesting data points from calling around the country:
- Of 22 locations queried across the U.S. 19 had real maple syrup in stock
- Places where one store didn't carry maple syrup had the other stores in the same town showing the lowest maple syrup prices (indicating low general demand)
- Store clerks, aside from one or two, understood there was a difference between the real stuff and the fake stuff
- Size of bottle doesn't seem to have any relation to price, unless you have the same brand present in the same store with multiple sizes (rare)
- Average price per gallon is between $99 and $100.
- Varied from $67 (a Trader Joe's in MN) to $203 (small store in Alabama)
- I don't have any sales data, or trend data. Will next year :)

[KenWP]

Most expensive I have seen syrup here in the cans is 9:95$ which works out to $60 bucks a gallon Canadain. If you buy the fancy glass bottles and such its a lot higher. I paid $38 bucks for it two years ago at one of the farms around here that sells fruits and jams and such.

[802maple]

The area for the largest sugarmakers is mostly directly north of New Hampshire and Maine between there and the St Lawrence although there are other areas as well.




guess this is a quebec question- not syrup- what regions of quebec are the main maple producing regions? if I wanted to go tour some big operations in April where would I steer?

-tuckermtn

[KenWP]

Any where from Patrie east into the Gaspe area. There are whole stretchs with no people hardley.

[Sugarmaker]

Wow,
Just read through all these posts trying to figure out the pricing for 2009. Looks like my guess will be about as good as everyone else s! I think we are going to increase our prices again this year. We will only know the correct answer when we close the books at the end of 2009.
Chris

[Jeff E]

Looking for reality here....any of you early producers selling already and if so what prices (bulk) are you getting....

[Amber Gold]

This is what I was thinking of for syrup prices.

1/2 pt $6
pt $9
qt $16
1/2 gal $28
gal $47

Do these seem high/low? I did some research online and some were really high and others were really low. This ended being the average of 10 NH producers I was able to find.

Thanks

[Packerfan]

$7
$10
$18
$60

That's what it is selling for at the stores here.
That's my price this year.

[Amber Gold]

Fred, does your 30% include the cost of the bottle?

It looks like I've picked up a wholesale client and is looking to buy some this week. Looking at current bulk price (I think it's $2.50 per lb) I'm not making much on the syrup, now. But if bulk prices go up then I make more, obviously. How do you guys deal with in-season wholesale sales and the low bulk price? Do you ask for a price adjustment based on June bulk prices, because with him buying in season he's getting a heck of a deal on syrup.

[Dill]

That's how the packers make money. Buy low and sell high later on in the season. Is it a local guy buying wholesale?

[Amber Gold]

Yeah, it's a farm stand down in Hampton. He wants some now so he can put it in his stand and would buy more as the season progresses. Haven't talked to him too much in detail, just know he wants NH syrup, not the ME syrup he currently gets. He wants to pick it up either this weekend or next.

[fred]

30% includes everything. but pencil it out to make sure its a profit. and 2.50 is not the price that is what they are paying now.i would set it up on 3.5 or 3.75 and if it doesnt reach that you can drop the price or give him a refund. i cant tell people enough do not sell yourself short, you have a years worth of time and money invested for 4 to 6 weeks of production

[Amber Gold]

I agree. I'm trying to get the most that I can for my product without overpricing myself and selling myself short. I've got too much time and money invested in this to do that.

[Tomahawk]

I don't know if this was posted here before but this is from Bloomberg financial today:

==============================================


"Maple-Syrup Cocktails, Beyonce Diet Push Vermont Price to $70"

March 10, 2009
By Tom Moroney

March 10 (Bloomberg) -- It’s come to this: Maple syrup is
being rationed in Vermont.

“For the first time in 19 years, I have to do portion
control,” said Karen Griffin, who owns Libby’s Diner in
Colchester. After rising demand and shrinking supply pushed up
the price of maple syrup 49 percent in the past year, she no
longer allows customers to pour with abandon.

The syrup her guests get with pancakes and waffles is the
real stuff, not any maple-flavored imitation. Griffin, 58, serves
syrup made from tapping maple trees for their sweet sap. Vermont
is the top U.S. source, producing 500,000 gallons (1.9 million
liters) last year.

As the state’s annual harvest gets under way this week,
restaurants and shops are paying as much as $70 a gallon for
syrup, said Rick Marsh, president of the Vermont Maple Sugar
Makers’ Association. That’s up from about $40 last year, he said.

Blame Canada. When syrup dispensers in Vermont and elsewhere
run low, they’re likely to be refilled with syrup imported from
the country that has a maple leaf on its flag. Quebec produces 75
percent of the world supply, said Gary Gaudette, president of the
International Maple Syrup Institute in Spencerville, Ontario.

Quebec’s 2008 harvest, hampered by unusual cold and snow,
fell 40 percent, he said. Canada had emptied the 65 million
pounds (29 million kilograms) of syrup in its so-called strategic
reserve a year earlier, so there was no backup supply.

“People in Vermont and other places, when they run out,
have nowhere to turn for extra syrup,” Gaudette said.

How to Ration

At Libby’s Diner, Griffin is trying to decide whether to
serve maple syrup in small, disposable packets or limit
consumption some other way. The customary glass dispensers with
pullback spouts, filled to the brim, are being banished.

Maple syrup already was removed from tables at the Penny
Cluse Cafe in Burlington, where owner Charles Reeves kept it with
other condiments. Now he serves syrup only when French toast or
pancakes are ordered, and the rising cost is factored into the
price of those dishes. Reeves even stopped selling gift jars of
syrup when the price hit an “embarrassing” $12 for 10 ounces.

“It could get worse before it gets better,” said Reeves,
42. “It’s a shame something so much a part of the state is
suddenly so expensive that you may not see it anymore.”

Maple syrup doesn’t rank high among Vermont’s agricultural
receipts, with sales totaling $13 million in 2007, the latest
figure available. It is prominent in the state’s heritage and a
hook for tourism.

“It goes back to the very beginning of the state and before
that,” said Roger Allbee, the state’s agriculture secretary, who
grew up on a Vermont farm that produced syrup. “It’s very
important to the image. Maine has lobsters, Massachusetts
cranberries and Vermont maple syrup.”

Beneficial Thaws

The state’s long freeze-and-thaw cycles in early spring
promote the flow of tree sap, said Tim Wilmot of the University
of Vermont’s Proctor Maple Research Center.

“Vermont syrup gives you the flavor of the woods,” he
said. “Nowhere else is it better.”

The shortage is occurring as maple syrup’s popularity
spreads, particularly in Europe and Asia. Sales worldwide totaled
130 million pounds in 2007, up from 40 million pounds 30 years
ago, Gaudette said.

The sweet stuff is also moving beyond the breakfast menu,
for use in foods such as fish entrees and salad dressings. At New
York’s PDT restaurant, the $13 bacon-infused, bourbon-and-maple-
syrup old-fashioned is a popular cocktail, said Don Lee, beverage
director.

Syrup Diet

A maple syrup diet has adherents including singer Beyonce
Knowles. She was quoted on BBC television in 2006 saying she lost
14 pounds for her role in the movie “Dreamgirls” by consuming
only lemon-and-maple-flavored water for about two weeks.

“It cleans out their bodies, and they seem happy about
it,” said Arthur Krueger, 65, of Shrewsbury, whose dark variety
is favored among maple-syrup dieters.

U.S. maple-syrup output increased 30 percent last year,
including an 11 percent gain for Vermont, according to the U.S.
Agriculture Department. Connecticut, Maine, Massachusetts, New
Hampshire, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin
also tap trees for syrup.

Some Vermonters see an opportunity. Eric Sorkin, a Columbia
Law School graduate, moved to Cambridge with his wife 10 years
ago to escape the bustle of Washington and raise organic
vegetables. He borrowed money and invested $1.4 million in
equipment to install 27,000 taps in maples on his land this year.

“You’ve probably caught on to the last bull market in
America,” said Sorkin, 38. He’s joining about 2,500 maple
harvesters in the state, Marsh said.

For syrup lovers who can’t stomach the $70-a-gallon price
tag of 100% maple, grocery stores offer maple-flavored versions
such as Log Cabin. They run about $22 a gallon.



--Editor: Brenda Batten

To contact the reporter on this story:
Tom Moroney in Boston at +1-617-210-4617 or
tmorrone@bloomberg.net

To contact the editor responsible for this story:
Brenda Batten at +1-312-443-5907 or batten@bloomberg.net

[KenWP]

And I can buy syrup still in one place for 47$ a imperial gallon.

[Homestead Maple]

A restaurant here charges people an extra $1.50 if you want maple syrup with your food.

[KenWP]

Since the trees are not putting out the wife and I were discussing how to make out own syrup with sugar. Might be worth it to buy syrup instead of trying to make it. I wonder if customers know how many miles we have to wlak to make a gallon of syrup.

[Tomahawk]

Since the trees are not putting out the wife and I were discussing how to make out own syrup with sugar. Might be worth it to buy syrup instead of trying to make it. I wonder if customers know how many miles we have to wlak to make a gallon of syrup.

You can make syrup with sugar?

How does that work? If you stir sugar and water and boil it, does it make syrup? Does it taste like syrup?

I guess in the end, sap is nothing more than water and sugar....hmmmm

:dontknow:

[Russell Lampron]

Ken be patient, you will get the sap. It is too early up there for you to get much now. Quebec usually doesn't start producing until the middle of March and then goes until the middle or end of April. You will be swimming in it when we are cleaning up and pulling taps down here.

[lpakiz]

Before we started this maple madness, we made our own syrup. Take equal parts white suger, brown suger and water. Bring to a boil. Tastes every bit as good as Aunt Jemimas' .....

[stevepipkin]

I hope the price stays up, but i suspect that the new found appetite for maple syrup in the far east will wane as their incomes wane due to recession.

There are a lot of newly prosperous people in the far east. They are discovering western foods. Unfortunately they too are undergoing recession.

[NYScott]

Well after speaking with some other local producers this is what it seems the pricing will be for us. (These are all grade A prices)


Gallons $40
1/2 gal. $22
quarts $12
250 ml glass bottles $8
3.4 oz samplers $2.50

[Justin Turco]

I am 45 for gallons.
25 for halfs.
15 for quarts.

[maple maniac65]

Retail Prices

Gallons $65.00
1/2 gal $35.00
Quart $23.00
Pint $15.00
1/2pt $9.00
3.4 $5.00

[KenWP]

Word here in the paper the other day was the base price of syrup went up 50 cents and then they get a final payment after its sold and then there is a premiuim paid by the packers also. Of course these vary year to year especially the premium as that depends on what they grade that syrup at and probbably what side of the bed the guy gets up on it the morning.

[Tmeeeh]

We base our current prices on a guess that the bulk price if I'm buying this summer or fall will be $3.50 per pound. We figured the cost of the syrup in the different size containers, added the cost of the container, label, time to fill and label each, fuel for reheating the syrup, bottling/refiltering loss, and time to manage retail sales. All this is in a spreadsheet so adjustments can be made as necessary. For example last winter when the bulk price was around $4.00 per pound, simply entering the new price per pound and a quick check for needed adjustments in the other areas resulted in new prices for the 17 different containers of syrup that we sell.
Based on $3.50 per pound we are currently retailing plastic jugs Grade A and B (no commercial in NH) for 51.00,26.00,15.50,8.50,5.58,3.75
Prices may change when it is known weather or not the industry has a bumper crop this year.

[maple sapper]

I am in the camp that you producers who sell your product at $40 a gal are leaving money on the table. There is lots of very well to do people who want syrup. There is a huge market for this commodity. The amount of work with wood, babysitting the unit while cooking and then the cleaning and bottling should be compensated for. Why sell your self short? Let the customer tell you its to much money. I am a business man in more than just the syrup business and have learned that if you price low its almost telling the buyer the quality is not there. If you believe in your product ask for what you need to get plus a profit. Most people are afraid to ask for money and thats a fact. So move your prices up and you will be a happier producer. Im selling my syrup for all the same prices as maple maniac65. There really needs to be some compensation for this labor of love of ours. Dont sell yourself short. Maple sapper

[mapleman3]

$52, $16/qt $9/pt $6 1/2pt

[tuckermtn]

we are the same as Mapleman3

[michelle32]

We sell most of our's at farmers markets and 65,35,20,12.50 is what we got last year for it. It all depends on who's buying it. We sell in a tourest spot so it's easier to get that price. No buddy ever said thats to much so I think where priced right.

[Amber Gold]

I've had some people comment that syrup prices have gone up quite a bit and I've had other's comment that I'm cheaper than others. I'm wondering if I should raise my gallon price. I'm at $28 for half and $47 for a gallon and I've sold a few gallons.

[slammer3364]

We are with Maple Maniac3 To much time invested in this product,if you dont want I will keep it.So far I have many orders but only a Hobby producer

[PerryW]

Maine syrup is okay, it just always has a hint of Lobster flavor.

[mfchef54]

6 1/2 pint, 10 pint, 18 quart, 60 gallon. haven't had anyone say it's too expensive yet.

[Dill]

I'm getting 15 a qt and 10 pt mostly selling qts at this point.

[maple sapper]

Dill,
I may buy your syrup from you and sell it. I wouldnt even have to split one piece of wood. Not to mention get to bed at a decent hour. LOL. :D

[Dill]

Hmmm, that low eh? I'll have to re-evaulate my price structure. I do know a local guy who is selling for 12/qt. So maybe I'll just buy from him and sell to you. I'll pocket a nice 3/qt "convience fee" just call me the sugarmaster.

[maple sapper]

Retail Prices

Gallons $65.00
1/2 gal $35.00
Quart $23.00
Pint $15.00
1/2pt $9.00
3.4 $5.00
These were cut and pasted from a post below my original. I use these prices as well. I think that most producers should be trying for these prices because of the commodity we make. Its a short season and demand is high and equipment isnt cheap. Let the customer decide whats to high. I have no problems holding mine if the person wants to go and get us grade (Im in NH and need to make 66.9% not 66%. ) We all know the 66.9 tastes better anyway. I think lots of producers are scared to ask for money and leave money on the table.

[KenWP]

I was in a major grocery store tuesday and they had certified organic maple syrup on for less the $32 a imperial gallon. Guy could not afford to make it for that.

[tiggy-at-mac.com]

Because I was curious, I conducted a price check study, querying about 30 stores randomly chosen across the U.S. Here is a pretty good indication of what syrup prices are really going for at retail in America. The study is located at....

http://flavorchase.tillinghastmaple.com/2009/03/04/the-real-maple-syrup-prices.aspx

You'll find that direct-from-producer prices are much, much lower. It's to the point that it really doesn't matter what a producer charges, because it's usually not in the realm of the real market price. Almost as though it's a different product.

I just started buying syrup from nearby friends to increase my supply to sell to folks outside of New England. Once I figure out what I can reliably get selling there, I plan to share that margin with them. -tig

[StewieSugar]

Interesting.

This is my first year, but considering my costs and how much syrup I produced, my break-even point is around $100/pint ($800/gallon). Guess I should be keeping my day job. ;)

[Amber Gold]

Tiggy, good article. Interesting facts.

I'm considering, due to my poor production season, raising my prices. I'm making about a third of what I thought I would and may need to buy syrup to fill orders.

[white mt]

Anyone have the latest bulk price per pound on Grade B and commercial syrup yet?

[802maple]

Our advance price at Maple Grove
$2.50 a lb for Fancy,Medium amber, and Dark amber
$2.25 a lb for Grade B
$2.00 a lb for Commercial

Whatever the price is on June 1st will be added to this

Or if you want to take a locked in price it will be;
$3.00 for Fancy
$2.90 for Medium amber
$2.80 for Dark Amber
$2.65 for Grade B
$2.50 for Commercial

This would be the final price you would get for this option

[VtSugarhouse]

Maple Grove is much too low in price. As late as 2 weeks ago another bulk purchaser was advertising for syrup at $3.75 accross the board.
There is no need for different prices for different grades of syrup. After last year it only proves that one price for all grades is much more effective. This is even happening in Canada. Oh yes the price in Canada right now is much higher that what Maple Grove is offering.

Food For Thought!

[802maple]

The last I knew the federation was at 2.75 canadian.

You are probably right that the price is low, That is why it says advance.

That packer was out of syrup if we are talking about the same one and they had a large order to go out or lose the sale. If you call them today I believe you will find out that they are paying 2.90 a lb.

The price will undoubtly go up.

[KenWP]

This is one set of prices from Ontario advertised on their web site.
AA $2.35 lb.

A $2.30 lb.

B $2.20 lb.

C $1.90 lb.

D $1.75 lb.

NC $0.80 lb
And thats in Canadain peso's also. I am still trying to find out the Quebec prices for this year.

[VtSugarhouse]

Amazingly I was just offered $3.25 a lb in Quebec accross the board for my syrup. I have sold to this company before and I trust them.
Also that is in U.S. funds. and if I do my math correct that comes out to $3.978 in Canadian funds.
Keep in mind there is no surplus of syrup anywhere and a commerical company will try to get your syrup as cheap as they possibly can.
My syrup is all committed at my price.

Good Luck!!

[ennismaple]

This is one set of prices from Ontario advertised on their web site.
AA $2.35 lb.

A $2.30 lb.

B $2.20 lb.

C $1.90 lb.

D $1.75 lb.

NC $0.80 lb
And thats in Canadain peso's also. I am still trying to find out the Quebec prices for this year.


That looks like Jakeman's prices.

[802maple]

I am glad that you got that, I know there were small packers that were paying nearly 5.00 a lb last year but that wasn't the the going rate. I do know if you go in to Maple Grove there is more syrup sitting there then I have ever seen this time of year,even though we were able to only get about 75% of what we needed last year if we had not lost customers. Take the reduction in world sales that I am sure you will see when the new numbers come out this year and what looks like a bumper crop coming it will be a interesting year. It very well could go to 4.00 again but I wouldn't be surprised to see 3.25 either.



Amazingly I was just offered $3.25 a lb in Quebec accross the board for my syrup. I have sold to this company before and I trust them.
Also that is in U.S. funds. and if I do my math correct that comes out to $3.978 in Canadian funds.
Keep in mind there is no surplus of syrup anywhere and a commerical company will try to get your syrup as cheap as they possibly can.
My syrup is all committed at my price.

Good Luck!!

[cropseyvillemark]

I was nervous about raising my retail price,but I just visited Sams club,grade A Dark Amber was $19.89. I asked the stock man,he said it was moving at that price.

[KenWP]

Update on the cheap organic maple syrup sold in store here lately. Turns out if you read the fine print it only has 10% maple syrup and the rest is syrup from cane or beets. The Maple Syrup producers have had 100"s of calls on it already and it turns out it is advertised as table syrup not Maple syrup if you read the adds right. I never really looked to hard at it since I knew I would have my own but read the paper today on it.

[ackerman75]

19.89 Is this for a quart ?

[cropseyvillemark]

That's right 19.89/qt.

[Russell Lampron]

Yes $20 plus or minus is the going rate in stores and supermarkets for a qt of non organic maple syrup. If you find something less expensive it is probably blended with cane syrup. Makes my $23 half gallon a real bargain even if it is grade B.

[lpakiz]

Well, I saw the roadside sign for "Pure Wisconsin Maple Syrup" for $8 per quart. This from a member of the Wiscinsin Maple Syrup Producers Association. Also, in our local free want-ad paper, Amish have fresh maple syrup for $30/gallon. Hard to charge much more with that competition....

[bison1973]

Larry, I totally agree with you. I've been frustrated with this for years. I don't know why it is but Wisconsin maple producers just seem to want to undercut themselves or they really don't care. People here will actually retail their syrup for less than they can get in bulk sales. The Amish situation dosen't help either. They'll undercut anyone on price.

TIM

[Jeff E]

Our Wisconsin market is pretty screwed up at the local level.
Groceries are selling pints arount 8.50 and quarts around 16 on average.

It is most likely driven by the local producers selling at such low prices.

[Jeff E]

Maybe we Mapletraders should just buy out their stock of syrup at 8 QT.

I would love to see the face:
" So, its $8 per Quart?
YUP
How many quarts did you make?
42
I will take them all, and could you help me load them?"

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

I think you get what you pay for from the Amish. I watched an Amish guy cooking by my house two days ago in the pouring rain. His evaporator is set on the muddy ground, no roof, wet wood, high lift jacks to level the evaporator as the frost goes out, no liscense. Real sanitary!! The guy could hardly get a boil in any one compartment. Sap was cloudy, old oil 5 gallon pails for sap buckets, ect. ect. We haven't had a problem selling syrup for $11.00 a quart out of the house, even with the Amish around. I know some locals that are buying all the Amish syrup bulk cheap, and they made a killing selling the stuff to Roth's last year.

[bison1973]

My question is why do local producers do this? I even saw $7.50 per qt last summer at a farmer's market. This was in the Cruchon jug. I tried to inform the person that they could get more just selling in bulk but they didn't seem to understand.

Sounds like a good idea... just buy out all these $8 qt people. But that would only make if the bulk price stays real high.

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

The problem I see by me, is there are a lot of older producers that are used to selling syrup for $5.00 a quart for years. They have their so called customer base that they are scared to ask more for there product. People that want to do it to make money, have to look at it as business. For a business to stay running you must make a profit. Some producers have more overhead, so they must charge more for the product. There is a lot of work to making syrup, so you must charge enough. Some people just want to work for nothing. People that think your nuts for charging over $10.00 a quart should come out and see how many hours of work are involved.

[Jeff E]

That brings the point back around...if I am truly approaching this as a business, I have an idea of what I have to spend to make a gallon of syrup, and I want to sell at a higher number.

If I work my butt off and it costs me $10 per quart to make it + my time, and I can buy a quart, reheat filter and bottle it for the same $10, I am nuts to haul buckets, cut wood, get muddy, buy equipment, etc for nothing but the fun of it. I can do that for the joy of it with a few taps, and buy up all the cheap syrup and repackage it to meet the demand.

I suppose that would make me a packer, or buyer of wholesale syrup. The business man 'taking advantage' of the guy willing to sell for $8 per quart. You know, the business man we all complain about!!!

BUY (or Produce) LOW, SELL HIGH. Its pretty simple.

[MERIDIAN MAPLES]

I hope we all do it because we enjoy it. But its also nice to make a little money too.. I'd still do it if the price was at $2.00 a pound for bulk and still enjoy it.

[michiganfarmer]

Larry, I totally agree with you. I've been frustrated with this for years. I don't know why it is but Wisconsin maple producers just seem to want to undercut themselves or they really don't care. People here will actually retail their syrup for less than they can get in bulk sales. The Amish situation dosen't help either. They'll undercut anyone on price.

TIM

I bought 40 gallons of syrup last year from a woman from Wisconson. She sent it in 5 gallon buckets, and only charged me $17 per gallon plus shiping.

[Russell Lampron]

Michiganfarmer,

At those prices she cant be making very much money. I have sold nasty rotgut commercial for more than that.

[PerryW]

Last year, We sold two 5 gallon drums to Bascoms; one B grade and one Commercial and they paid us $42 per gallon.

[michiganfarmer]

Michiganfarmer,

At those prices she cant be making very much money. I have sold nasty rotgut commercial for more than that.

I know it! lol, I couldnt believe it!

[KenWP]

In the paper today they say the fixed price here for this year and next is $2:71 a pound plus what ever the final price is and the bounus from the packers. They figure the price will be lower to the consumer this year because they have allowed a 48% increase in the quota also for this year. But so far no word on how the crop is coming along for the year.

[partsrus1974]

I went to bascom's last weekend,he's paying $2.90lbs med--and $2.80lbs for dark.I took in 1 barrel i got $1000 bucks not to bad.I hated to take it in, But its been a rough winter.

[tuckermtn]

Does anyone know yet what type of season quebec is having? thinking bulk pricing...

[Russell Lampron]

If the season that KenWP is having is any indication I would say that they are having a bad one. They make most of their syrup in April so time will tell.

[H. Walker]

I was told today by a Quebec equipment dealer that the price may be as high as $4 per pound even if they have a good year.

[KenWP]

You can't go by where I live in Quebec. If you go a b it north or east they still get cold nights and just east of here they had even more snow then I had. I know talking to a fellow at lodge that around here things were slow but there is millions of trees in this province and they uped the quota 48% so a lot more trees probbably got tapped.
The fellow I worked for put in a 1000 new taps this year himself. I have to wait till the 16th before I am out and about to talk to anybody as things don't really get going social wise untill then around here due to winter.

[tuckermtn]

Ken- must be something happening socially at the Legion?!

[KenWP]

I am not a legion memeber.
Somebody must be makeing syrup around here as I had touble finding bottles or jugs and had to drive to D&G for some. There were a lot of buckets hung all over the country that were not there last friday. Maybe somebody knows something I don't

[gator330]

Classic presintation, A 250 ml maple leaf bottle, foil cap and a nice Pure maple syrup card tied to it. Gold lable name and address and grade a medium amber sticker. Cristal clear syrup.Picture perfect!!!! What do you sell it for? I get 6.00 for a half pint jug and 12.00 for a pint. So If I take that 6.00 dollars of syrup and put it in a 4 dollar bottle and card and foil It just looks like it is worth more then 10.00 dollars!!! I don't want to over price any thing but I don't want to get cut short eather.

[Jim Brown]

I sell that presentation for $12.95

[KenWP]

Okay since this thread is what syrup is worth. Would syrup in a fancy bottle and such make a okay wedding gift. I am sort of proud that I can make edible syrup and would like to brag a little in a different kind of way.

[jason loper]

Sure even if you just make it an add on to a gift....we use it alot for gifts through the year and I think people like it

[Dill]

Syrup makes a great gift. But a real friend would give an arch and some sap buckets for a wedding gift.

[Jeff E]

I have heard Quebec production is going very well and there may be bulk prices dropping. Anyone heard about that?

[220 maple]

On the TillinghastMaple Blog, Levi Hargrove of Hargrove Organic Maple of New Brunswick said they was offered 4.25 a pound for bulk syrup, they was not going to sell any until they get 4.50 a pound. If it's a lie he told it! Google TillinghastMaple, read for yourself.

Mark 220 Maple

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Sounds like greed will end up killing this industry, especially when you are bragging about it.

[TapME]

In Canadian money that is about 3.50 a pound for those of you that want to know. there dollar is about 80% of ours.

[KenWP]

It's a good thing we both sell by the pound also because its really confuseing when you have to convert money and the size of the gallon also. Our syrup weighs 13 pounds a gallon and yours 11 give or take a bit.

[802maple]

Thanks for pointing that out.



In Canadian money that is about 3.50 a pound for those of you that want to know. there dollar is about 80% of ours.

[cheesegenie]

Contacted Dom Grimm, in Montreal CANADA, they quoted me in US funds.
I bet a few months ago when $ at par or higher than US, would have been in Canadian funds. I live in Ontario, Canada.

[latewood]

I have seen bulk prices fluctuate wildly over the past 40 years. A lot depends on inventory,current economics and recently, the production up north in Canada. Historically prices are at a low in April and May.I for one think that I might hold off on bulk sales till later in the year.One thing does present a dilemma with the current boom in the wholesale price---how much are we willing to charge our long term retail consumers,and still maintain that base. Retail provides us steady,reliable profit year after year.Someone mentioned in a previous post that greed could kill us! Look what greed did to Wall Street!!!! I don't want to sound sanctimonious or lecture like I know it all, just trying to pass on some of the little experience I have gained over the many fun filled times in the bush and sugarhouse. Thanks for letting me voice my opinion.

[markcasper]

That may be true about greed, but Wall Street was selling something for a profit that never exsisted, and continues to do so til this day. Maple is a tangible asset, not a fiat- made up one.

[gmcooper]

I was checking on buying light syrup and was quoted $3.75 right now and if I could wait a month it would likely be $3.50 lb. I have been hearing Quebec is having a good year and northern Maine as well. Did also hear Canadian prices have been slipping the past week or so as more production numbers come in.
Anyone else hearing anything?
Mark

[KenWP]

Well with the weather we have had anybody with vacum would be swamped with sap as its there but with gravity and buckets it just will not run fast or at all. I have trees the last couple of days that start to drip then stop.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I just got back from Wisconsin and we had a great year over 300 gallons a new record and sold 221 gallons a Roth Suger Bush on Sat got 3.00 a pound and was happy with that.

[PerryW]

Just talked to Bascoms.

They are paying $2.50 per pound ($28 per gallon +-) for commercial. Even off-flavor stuff.

[Dill]

Does the off flavor include buddy?

[erhino10]

what was the grade of syrup you sold to roths? i called last friday and they told me 2.85 per# on lt and med amber and i laughed at them

[Haynes Forest Products]

Grade A I had called and set the price with Dawn earlier it was better than the $2.25 last year. So after you laughed at her who did you take your syrup too.

[wally]

Does the off flavor include buddy?
usually. we sold them some really nasty stuff a few years ago that got lost in our basement for quite a long time. fermented, with mice and a bat. they still paid $2.00/lb for it. :mrgreen:

[erhino10]

anderson in cumberland

[Revi]

LL Bean probably gets it from some of the big guys like Maine Maple Products. They have over 65,000 taps and buy from other organic producers.

At least Bean's is buying from Maine. They were buying from Vermont.

[Mark]

In Wisconsin they buy it up cheap and then get the rest that they need form the north east at a higher price.
I put my syrup on a truck and ship it to Vermont and who knows it might just get shipped right back.

[benchmark]

What did anderson's give you? Last year they were $1/LB less then roths, and I laughed at them.

[bison1973]

In WIS we producers are always getting screwed on price. But Anderson's is the worst of the bunch in my opinion. He'll pay the least and then of course sell it for the most.

[ackerman75]

Please tell me, who else buys syrup in Wisconsin besides Anderson's ?

[KenWP]

I just checked out a couple huge sugar bushs south of me today and there is no signs of buds what so ever . So with this cool weather we have a bit more time up here to run.

[fred]

best thing i can tell you is develope your own retail market or wholesale jugs to businesses. i did it . its not hard at all ,deliver once a month. some stores will need more often than that. then you make the money instead of giving it away

[orange county maple]

I feel if we all sell at a low price early that will directly effect the price of syrup this year. If you sell to Bascom right now for $2.90/lb and they sell for $3.75/lb. We are just going to make the big wheels richer and we get the low price just like milk. It's time for us to look at the bigger picture, lets put it in our pockets not Bascom, Maple Grove, or other big buyers. It's like a run if you aren't tapped and miss a run you can't
get that back or your syrup when it is gone.

[erhino10]

Please tell me, who else buys syrup in Wisconsin besides Anderson's ?

theres roths by cadott and maple hollow by merrill

[KenWP]

After today I figure syrup should be $100 bucks a gallon. I must have walked a 100 miles in the last couple of days.

[NH Maplemaker]

To bad we can't take some of our customers with us on these little walks that we have got to take every now and then!! Then they would understand !!

[Amber Gold]

I had a customer that was complaining that I didn't have any light syrup, then complained that I didn't have any 1/2 gallons and wanted 2 quarts for the 1/2 gallon price. I think he should've been with me starting in last June and up through the end of the maple season to see how much work goes into building and prepping the sugarhouse, setting up all the tubing, firewood, and boiling...he'd have a new apprecation for what we do and probably wouldn't be so cheap.

[Father & Son]

That type of customer is rare. Most people don't question the price, they just know they have to have it!

Jim

[Amber Gold]

Out of maple weekend, and for that matter the entire season, he was the only customer that really got under my skin. Everybody else was great. really enjoyed it. I understand if people want light syrup because syrup color and flavor is all personal preference, but don't dicker with me on price like that. Sad part was you could tell he had money.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I had a neighbor that showed up at the shack looking for syrup I gave him a price and he told me got a gallon from the Amish for $20.00 last year. I ask him if he rememberd what he looked like so he could go back and get more.

[KenWP]

They should walk with me now. I am almost a mile from home now hauling sap with buckets back to the house. As the trees bud I have to move futher out in the bush to find sugar maples instead of the reds that I was tapping.

[Jeff E]

Curious as this has been quite for a while...What has the price settled out at for bulk around the country?

wisconsin prices are around:
LA to DA 2.75 to 2.60
Comm 2.25

[markcasper]

Jeff, My neighbor took his to Cumberland yesterday and the price has dropped more......he got 2.50 for all of his LA.

He said Comm. was down to $1.90/ lb.


Been meaning to give you a call, but haven't gotten in until quite late on my days off.

[PATheron]

Whats going on now with the syrup prices? Theron

[Russell Lampron]

When I was at Bascom's last Saturday they were paying $2/lb for unfiltered or ropey mersh and $2.25/lb for good mersh. I don't know what they were paying for other grades. They were selling a 5 gallon can of grade B for $187 and I think it was $10 more for dark amber.

[markcasper]

My neighbor called yesterday and told me he was going to sell his bulk. I asked him if he called. He said no. 15 minutes later he called me back and told me that he called Roth and then Anderson. Much to both our surprises he is stuck with his syrup as both of them have ceased buying, telling him they have never had so much syrup.

[Dave Y]

That Is why I sell the bulk of my syrup at the closet buy day after my season ends. The syrup market can be unpredictable at times and you need to take what you can get while everyone is buying and be happy.

[220 maple]

DaveY,

I agree with you on selling as soon as possible, Thanks to this message board and all the traders who post regularly I sold my commercial for $2.50 a lb, I don't believe that price will happen again for many more years, if ever. My dark amber and grade B is always purchased by the same producer who can't make enough for the amount of customers he has, He paid me higher than the going rate this year. I feel it equals out because last year he bought my wholesale syrup for $2.35 a lb and with in one month he was paying near $4.00 a lb for syrup from a mini-syrup lord up north.
The syrup I have left this year will be jugged and made into candy when needed. My prices retail are very good and when gift shops and stores buy from me I give them room to make some money and move syrup, I don't like seeing it set forever on stores shelves.

Mark 220 Maple

[markcasper]

DaveY, I understand to a point where you are coming from. On the other hand it may just be a lack of funds for them to continue buying right now, but they're saying they're full. I'd think there would have to be borrowed money involved to purchase that much syrup and with the bank thing going on right now, it may just be that they can't borrow anymore at this point. Thats just a thoughts.

[Mark]

That is what I think, they have a lot of money out and they know syrup can be bought later.

[Dave Y]

It is my understanding that some packers have bought all they will need for a few months and do not plan to by syrup untill that supply is some what depleted, and then at a reduced price.

[Amber Gold]

What's the word on the street for bulk prices the rest of the year? I checked with Bascom's and they're currently selling DA for $3.15 and B for $3.05. They're buying B for about $2.60 and DA $2.70. I'm guessing on the buying prices as I didn't write them down, but it's about that.

[algersugar]

sold some to bascom thur. at dark amber $2.60 b $2.50 com $2.25

[Jeff E]

I sold a few barrels 3 weeks ago at Andersons in NW Wisconsin, and It was about that. I think LA and MA went for about 2.75, DA 2.60

[KenWP]

Josh it would be to your benifit if you could buy from a producer and pay him a bit more then the dealers are paying and less then you would have to buy it from them. Only problem is you have to taste test a bit to find something that you don't mind putting your name behind also.