new mapler looking for experience

[Buckeye mapler]

I am in the process of accumulating the necessary equipment to make this happen. I live in Blanchester area and am looking for a mapler around my area that would be interested in a helper in exchange for some of your advice and the experience. (Preferably someone who is confident with their outfit.) If you or anyone you know is interested in properly introducing me to your passion and one I hope to share, please message me. Thank you for your consideration in advance! Tom

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

where in OHIO are you TOM??

RICH

[newman_maple]

Tom,

I would check the Ohio Maple Producers page for possible connections. http://www.ohiomapleproducers.com/

I am only an hour from you, but I am not set up yet for this coming year and this will only be my second year of producing more than what my family uses. I am still learning as I go.

There are no producers I know of close to me, but there are producers listed on the site from Batavia, Wilmington, Cincinnati, etc.. Might be a good starting point.

Eric

[Sugarmaker]

Welcome Buckeye,
Hope you can find some folks near by but if you cant we are here just about every day with our words of wisdom:)
Chris

[Buckeye mapler]

Thanks all for the warm welcome. I am located in Midland, but will eventually tapping woods in Hillsboro. Midland is in Clinton county. I will check the Ohio maple Producers assoc. web site, thanks for the tip. Hopefully someone will be willing.

[newman_maple]

Midland is north of Fayetteville, right? I teach at Mt Orab, but I live 30 minutes east off St Rt 32. I am also about 35 minutes south of Hillsboro.

I am no expert, but I will help in any way I can.

[Buckeye mapler]

yes, that is exactly where midland is. i may also have access to some land in Butlerville when the time comes. I currently hunt deer on the property and have brought up the idea to the guy who owns it and he said "there are plenty of maples back there". and i have seen quite a few black maples. any how, i would certainly enjoy seeing the whole thing in motion this season. when do things usually get rolling in your area? what ever i can do i will. i understand that each person has their own method of madness and some things will be observational and i am happy with that. just keep me posted.

[newman_maple]

I have tapped here for five years. The first 4 years, I tapped in mid-Feb. Last year, I tapped 25 trees on Feb 1 and the others a week later. I had consistant runs each week making about 2-2 1/2 gallons of finished syrup. The first three weeks of March were double that. I made syrup eight straight weekends netting 25 finished gallons. I didn't grade it, but the last 5 gallons would have been Grade B.

I still have a few gallons to sell, but it has been my first year of selling. My wife's family is selling it out of their feed store and a few have called for more. I should easily be able to sell what I can make within a year or two.

[Buckeye mapler]

my uncle owned land in Lynx just out of West Union, but he sold it. this was years ago though. enjoyed some great turkey hunting out there. are you close to cherry fork exit or further up? or is 125 a better route? so the idea of having your taps out by valentine's day holds pretty true to southern Ohio? i talked with a guy who was a rep of leader evaps and he gave me a pretty good idea of what to expect, but watching your outfit in person would certainly give me the reality I am lookin for.

[newman_maple]

If you go take 32 east, you will go about 5-6 miles past the 136 (Cherry Fork exit) and turn left just past Seaman. I am only 10 minutes from there. I am 15 minutes past the Cherry Fork exit. Your best route is 68 to 32.

My outfit is not the same this year. I boiled outside last year and put up a building for this year. I have the chimney in and am still working on the vents. I am using an enclosed carport so my situation is different than the norm. I have a cheap 2 x 6 flat pan evaporator to put in it. I am all about what I can afford at this point.

I would be glad for you to come down, but you need to give me some time to get things together a bit better. My block evaporator did the trick last year, but it was not a long term solution. It was an experiment to see if I really had the bug and to learn. I do have the bug so I am growing as bit.

I had never thought about the Valentines day thing, but I bet that does fit for us. We are inn unpredictable area so we run the risk of missing a good year by waiting. We are weeks ahead of northern Ohio.

I would like to visit some sugarers in the area, but it is a decent drive to find any around here. It is good knowing someone within an hour has the bug.

[Buckeye mapler]

Sounds like you are busy getting ready for this season. But it is the kind of busy you like. I converted an old lean to style barn into my shed where I will put our equipment. I have alot of 55 gallon drums that my father in law gets free from work. They are from a company that does flavoring and they held pure maple syrup before he brought them home. i have a few things for this but am shopping maple trader for the bigger equipment and my goal is to purchase one thing a month for the next 9 months. next summer we plan to start clearing any necessary undergrowth and planning our layout. we will be starting off with a gravity tubing system. i have hunted these woods as well and i know there are alot of maples back there.
you would certainly think that more people from adams county would take advantage of the wooded areas for mapling.

[newman_maple]

55 gallon drums are great. I used them last year and need to get a few more. There is a guy at West Union that sells them for $6 or so. I hope he has a few more. They had pop syrup so they take some cleaning, but work well.

Most of my land is too flat for lines and the the ones I could use line on drop too far down into a hollow. It would be a a pain pumping it all back out. I use buckets for now. Over time, I may look into installing some line.

There is one person listed on the Ohio Maple Producers website from Adams County. He is near the Highland Co. line and I have never heard of him or contacted him. That website has not updated the members since I joined about this time last year.

[Buckeye mapler]

I know what you mean about the hills in adams county, most of the land i have seen is either flat or drops so steep it would be hard to maintain a 4% slope. i wish we had the land to set up on, unfortunately, we will have to transport our sap back to our shed to boil it. maybe one day, but we will make due in the mean time.

[Buckeye mapler]

So what is the best way to clean these barrels? mine have to holes with caps at the top. i would like to keep it all intact and avoid cutting the tops off, but i don't know if that is going to be possible. I though about using a pressure washer inside them. if you have any ideas, i would love to hear them.

[newman_maple]

The barrels are a pain to clean. I used a pressure washer once and the other time, just a regular hose. I did rinse as much of the pop syrup out as I could, but could not completely lose the smell until I used them for sap. To clean after the year was over, I put in a bleach-water solution for a few days then rinsed several times until there was no strong odor. I will rinse them again when it is time to use them.

I lay the barrels on their sides up on blocks and fill to the top hole. I put a plastic faucet on the bottom. I never measured, but assume they hold about 50 gallons this way. I think it is easier than pumping it out and the barrels stay intact. If you leave any old sap in them, they will mold inside. I found this out on one barrel I didn't bother rinsing very well. It was a pain to clean.

[Buckeye mapler]

would a mixture of baking soda and water help absorb the odor and any left over flavor during my initial washing? i saw your picture with your barrels on their side and that seems like a good idea, you can probably stack more like that too with supports to keep them from rolling. it is nice to hop on here, ask a question and check back later. and i really appreciate any and all advice.

[newman_maple]

Baking Soda should work. It would have to reduce some of the odor. I migth give that a try. I cannot see any harm in it. I may stack them this year, but it gets difficult pouring in when very high. Not sure how I am going to deal with more barrels. I needed four barrels twice last year. That was with 65 taps. I should have 100-120 this year so I may have 300-400 gallons to boil at times.

[Buckeye mapler]

i will give the baking soda idea a try as well. that will be quite a bit of sap. are you ready? i am anxious to observe and help where i can. so will this be an all time high for you?

[newman_maple]

This year will certainly be my biggest. Last year was to see where I needed improvements and this year will hopefully test those improvements. I will be going well beyond last years production hopefully, but it has been dry all year so I am not sure it will be a good season.

The biggest issue will be getting the sap hauled in each evening. I will more than double the time it took last year, but I should cut my boiling time down a great deal so I am hoping I can manage OK.

[Buckeye mapler]

were you introduced to sugaring by an experienced person or did you teach yourself? did your first year go as planned or rough? what changes have you made this year in order to accomadate the increase number of taps and any problems you found? just a few curious questions. it seems that as you expand, you are limited as to what you can do without investing more money or time (boil longer, add R.O. or bigger evap, etc.). i have spent the last year researching this and talking to people, but i have yet to see it done live in person where i can fire questions out and see the answer first hand as it is being answered. i am educated, but inexperienced. the best part about this is you are a teacher, so you live by the motto that the only dumb question is the one you don't ask!

[newman_maple]

I just decided to try sugaring. I really do not remember why I took up the hobby, but I did it small scale for our own use for three years boiling inside and made the decision to do more. That was last year when I used a block arch. It was a successful experiment so I am increasing this year as well. This year’s changes are mainly in boiling. I will have a new arch/pan and a new shack. This year did take a large investment that I will not make up in less than 3-4 years, but I had to get out of the weather, and I had to replace the block arch anyway. The building is multi-purpose so I did not build it just for sugaring.

You are correct that you will see what changes need made and that they will rarely be cheap. After year one, I bought “backyard Sugarin” which is a great book for a small producer. The best resource outside of this site I know of is the North American Maple Syrup Producers Manual. It is an excellent book. My wife got me mine for Christmas through our extension office.

I am no expert, but I have asked a lot of questions on this site and to others and seem to be working though my problems without too many problems. So far, everything has worked; some things better than others of course.

[Buckeye mapler]

You know, I don't know what got me started on to this, but after I learned more about it, the real question was, why didn't I start into this earlier. That is funny cause I asked my wife for that same manual for x-mas this year. I have to keep my eyes peeled for equipment on here.

[Buckeye mapler]

What have you used for labeling so far? Do you have a name that you sell your syrup under? is the feedmill your only retail outlet? do you have a website? how long do you anticipate this years production to take to sell?

[PatS]

I bought 7 barrels that were used for Hawiian Punch. Apparently what was left fermented, leaving a really pungent aroma. I tried bleach & water first, that didn't work, so I tried vinegar. Now I have seven barrels that reek of vinegar. The Hawiian punch aroma does seem to have been eliminated though. I thought of the baking soda & think it will work, just haven't been to the store to get enough for all the barrells.

The Maple Producers manual was removed from the web, however there is still a copy at this site. [URL="http://web.archive.org/web/20060429074616/http://ohioline.osu.edu/b856/"] It is a web archive computer I happened to find. Probably not updated, but there is a lot of info there that helped me. This site is better than a library, just keep reading & asking questions.

I bought a half pint & this will be my first year making more than a couple gallons over an open fire, so we're kind of in the same boat. I've got 250 sugars & 40 or so reds & assorted others & hope to tap them all over the next couple years.

[Buckeye mapler]

I know there are plenty of black maples and red maples and surely wouldn't be surprised to find a good number of sugars where i will be tapping, but it will be spring before i get out there and start figuring whats what and where our lines will run. the woods are mature and have never been tapped. there is some undergrowth, but it is pretty well clear for the most part. we do plan on tapping a few this year just to get a feel, but for the real experience, i am looking forward to helping Newman out.

[newman_maple]

I have been using Avery labels for my bottles and jugs. For bottles, I use a large label for the front and a small label for the back. It has the the required things plus a nutrition label. For jugs, I put a small label on with the name and address and attach a business card with string. No website yet. I can't see the need at this time. I figure I may not sell every last bottle this year. It will be close. If not, I will sell cheap or use it as samples when I sell at the feed store's pancake breakfast in April.

We sell our syrup under the name "Newman Family Maple Syrup" and I sell it by word of mouth from home and from the feed store only for now. A guy is renovating a 150 year old underground railroad house near here and asked if he could sell in store that will be located in the bed and breakfast he will locate there. That should be a great place to sell, but that is 2-3 years away.

[Buckeye mapler]

Sounds like you take it in stride, which is what you have to do. That underground railroad place, where is that located? i know i have heard that is passed through areas out there, but not exact on location. that does sound like a good lead for you. do you have return customers? do you go to farmers markets?

[newman_maple]

The underground railroad house is about 2 1/2 miles from me in Tranquility. It is officially called "The John T. Wilson UGRR House Restoration Project". I have been up to see the place several times over the past few months and have gotten to know the person restoring the house. He has received partial funding through the Dept. of the Interior and Ohio Historical Society so he has to follow very strict guidelines. It is a very interesting place and John T. Wilson was a very prominant man in the Civil War and in the underground railroad.

I do have return customers so this eventually lead into orders, etc.. I have not tried any farmers markets, but have considered that option when or if I feel the need to sell quickly. I will just play it by ear.

[Buckeye mapler]

I know this season I will get to ask questions to you and all, but sometimes I get thinking and just gotta spout a few off. How many hours do you figure on spending each evening?

[newman_maple]

I have no idea how many hours I will spend this season. Last year with a homemade arch and 2x3 pan, I boiled 200 hours to make 25 gallons. I should improve my boiling time by a factor of 3-4 this season, but I hope to have twice as much sap to boil.

Collection time will be a concern this year, but I will not know how much time I am looking at unless I make a trial run to the bush on my Dad's place I am tapping this season. With my setup, I would guess a minimum of 2-3 hours when the sap is running.

[Buckeye mapler]

So is there a great distance between your house and your father's? Or is the mule going to your means of transporting? If there is a drive, I could see your dilemma. It is the same one I will eventually face, but hey you gotta do what you gotta do! we are going to take the bed off the ford and make it a flat bed so we can put a water tank on it to haul sap in. Also, I just got a bunch of my barrels rinsed really well. Most had maple syrup or maple flavoring in them to begin with. I rinsed them until clear and the bottom and walls have no residue left on them. I am ready to fill them and put the bleach mixture in. My question is, how much bleach should I mix in 50 some odd gallons of water? After they soak in the bleach mixture for a day, I am going to rinse them thoroughly and refill them, this time using 1 box of baking soda. I will let it set maybe a day, then rinse thoroughly. Hang upside down for a few days and store them. I am going to try one barrel first, if the odor exist still, I may go to using more baking soda. I wonder if it would be possible to store them with baking soda inside some sort of container in the barrel???? I know baking soda is used in refridgerators to absorb odors. Just a thought.

[newman_maple]

I will be taking the mule to gather the sap at my parents place. It adjoins my land so it is an easy drive, but though a gate or two and at least a mile round trip, perhaps more.

To clean barrels with bleach, I have not filled them all the way. I roll the barrels around with bleach in them. I only put a few gallons at at time. I have used a 20:1 ratio, but for safe drinking water, a 64:1 ratio is all the is called for. If there is a little odor left, it is not going to flavor the syrup. If actual flavoring remains, that might be a different story. My barrels still had a pop smell last year and there was no problem.

After I cleaned them this year, I just placed them upside down on a pallet ot of the weather.

[Buckeye mapler]

well that will work out good then. is there alot of potential for more taps on your parents land? i couldn't do much today with the barrels cause of the snow, but i did work on the sugar house some. i am framing a cupola to put up in the spring. should work nice. does more equipment go for sale after the season on here or is it just on and off through out the year. i know it doesn't last long this time of year when it does go up for sale.

[newman_maple]

There is some potential on my Dad's place, but most of the trees are on very steep slopes and cannot be tapped without lines and they would need to feed to a location that I would have a great deal of difficulty bringing sap from. I am looking at 30-50 additional taps this year I think.

Equipment seems to be posted throughout the year, but it is getting time for more posts. There are commercial dealers with used equipment pages. Bascom has a lot of use equipment.

[Buckeye mapler]

i know we talked about this already (the cost of upgrading), but are you considering the tubing method down the road? have you read the tubing manual yet? i guess you would have to weigh the potential taps versus potential production/profit and costs. anyway, i am still looking for cooperative weather to finish the barrel cleaning.

[newman_maple]

I have no plans for tubing in the near future. I do have some used tubing I thought about experimenting with in a couple spots where it might make it easier for me to collect. Most of the trees I will tap are on little or no grade and the others are on steep grades where it would be hard to bring it up from. I will look into other options as the years go by.

[Buckeye mapler]

i hear you there. i got the barrels all rinsed good and disinfected two with the bleach today. still got to bleach the rest and then the baking soda. it was raining, but the hose was thawed so i had to take advantage, heck i sure dont stay dry cleaning them bad boys anyway. what do you use to drill your tap holes?

[newman_maple]

I am hoping the weather is good enough for me to work on my vents this weekend.

I used a brace and bit last year to drill tap holes. It does not take much longer than a cordless drill. I will never have a need for a tapper.

[Buckeye mapler]

well the weather should be favorable for you this weekend. i will be working but will try to get the barrels rinsed and soaking in the baking soda solution. the i can get them stored in the shed. so where do you get bottles from? do you use glass or plastic?

[newman_maple]

I have ordered glass bottles from Bascom (http://www.bascommaple.com/index.html) in the past. They seemed as reasonable as anyone else. Still kills you to ship glass. I used some plastic last year too. I got those from Anderson (http://www.andersonsmaplesyrup.com/index.php?pg=se), but plan to order from Sugar Bush Supplies this year since they have a decent looking Ohio jug. I have about 50 pint jugs to use up, but I plan to sell some in half-pint plastic and quarts, half, and gallon jugs. (http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/online_catalog.html) I will likely buy some glass bottles from Sugar Bush along with plastic jugs and hopefully save some on shipping.

[Buckeye mapler]

I ordered my tubing book, hydrometer, testing cup and thermometer from anderson's. sugar bush is in michigan correct? Have you tried richards? he is determined to keep ohio business in ohio, i am sure he would match or beat prices. do you do well with 8oz. and 12oz. bottles?

[tom jr.]

welcome to the maple family buckeye! I am located in geauga county (north east ohio) the maple capitol of the state. I can try to locate sugaring equipment for you if you would like and try to help you along the way. best of luck to you.

[MFarmall]

Buckeye, I have gotten supplies from Sugar Bush and and Bascom, Shipping the same for Sugar Bush and Richards,at times a little less for Sugar Bush for some reason.
Will try to get you the links to some sites that have case prices for glass containers I have found if want them. Prices pretty decent.
Newman is right, the Ohio plastic jugs from Sugar Bush are real nice, I think some people would buy them with water in them just because they look good. Used some of their 1/2 pints this year. Put the rest in quart and pint mason jars and sealed them, put in refridgerator.
Mel

[Buckeye mapler]

MFarmall,
those links would be great. I am going to have to check out those Ohio jugs,,, uh the plastic ones,,, made to hold syrup, get your mind outa the gutter. jk. i would like to sell in glass in the 8oz. and 12oz. sizes, and plastic for bigger sizes. so any links would be great.

[Buckeye mapler]

tom jr.
i know where you are located. your county knocks down a good number of wild turkey also. must be all them hardwoods! I could definitely use a little help locating equip. i could easily make a trip to northern ohio to pickup. alot easier than out of state. in fact, my father and i made trips to stark county yearly when Moeller would go to state championship, so I am familiar with the route. i sent you a PM with a little info on what i am looking for so i didn't clutter up this discussion board with wanted ads. thanks for the offer.

[newman_maple]

I found this year that people preferred the 8 oz. bottles. I like the looks of the 12 oz. better myself. It just looks a lot bigger. I am looking to sell some 8 oz. in plastic and glass ($1 more for glass) and plastic for everything else.

[Buckeye mapler]

i unerstand you get more per gallon when breaking it down in smaller units, so it is good that many prefer the smaller bottles. i am off the next two days and hope to finish the rest of the barrels.

[Beweller]

Residents of Ohio are known as "Buckeyes".

Anyone want to explain what a Buckeye is?

[forester1]

A Buckeye is a tree similar to a horsechestnut. I don't know why Ohioans are named for a tree.

[Beweller]

A buckeye is a worthless nut.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Squirrels like them but they know what is not poisonous.

[Buckeye mapler]

Wolverines like them too, but they CHOKE on them!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Buckeyes!

[Beweller]

WEST VIRGINIA,

Didn't you mean to write WEST(BY GOD!)VIRGINIA?

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

LOL! I think you need me to come up and help shoot some of those big buckeye giant whitetails. We can't grow them like that down here!

[MFarmall]

Buckeye, sorry didn't get back to you sooner.
The sites arewww.specialtybottle.com
and http://www.burchbottle.com
You can get 8oz and 12 oz. bottles.
I have been looking at the oxygen barrier plastic jugs, seems like would keep the syrup good longer.
Better get out and get some salt on the sidewalk, starting to freeze with the mist already.
Mel

[Buckeye mapler]

MFarmall,
yeah i noticed the icecicles on the front porch. thanks for the links. just got my hydrometer, testing cup, thermometer and N.A. Maple Syrup Producers Manual in the mail and I am all excited!! I am looking forward to this season. I feel like a kid almost. I mean I am charged. So it looks like we could be getting some snow before Christmas and I have a feeling we won't see many above freezing temps after that until the sap starts running. do you plan to tap this year? I am going to lend a hand, but I also plan to tap a few trees and boil it dow just to try it myself..... and tryout my new toys!!!!!
By the way, what does the avatar represent? thought you would have like an IH or something. I made some wicked cornhole boards, one was a john deere and the other international harvester. you know for the whole competition thing!? they were bad. both looked like the front of a combine!

[MFarmall]

Buckeye, hoping to get 40-50 buckets out next year and try some gravity tubing runs, probably 4-6 trees per run, right now figuring 8-10 runs to see how get along with tubing. If evaporator I'm making boils enough GPH with water may try to tap a few more. After pricing some of the equipment need for maple syrup, (cup, skimmer, canner, evaporator etc.) have been making all of it I can from stuff have here and drop from work, save some money where can.
The avatar is from a fireworks show I did a few years ago, it is the fighter group number and emblem of the outfit my dad and uncle were in. All the lighted parts are fireworks. the emblem is 8 ft tall. Thought had a pic of IH but only have one of a restored Cockshutt 40. Always was a running joke between us and the neighbor, we had red and they had green, WHICH IS BETTER?
Mel

[Buckeye mapler]

MFarmall,
so you are still in the works too huh? i am going to tap a few trees this year just to get the feel at these sap runs, and just boil it down on the stove with a homemade stove pan. i have alot to do. what do you expect the full potential is in your sugar bush? i am not sure, but suspect i could get over a thousand taps eventually. That is a pretty good firework display you had there!

[MFarmall]

Buckeye, one suggestion that has been told on this site before, if you are going to boil in a pan on your kitchen stove, be very sure that you have a very good vent to the outside to get rid of the steam. Heard of a guy south of us who boiled 10-15 gal. on his kitchen stove with just a window open. Next morning most of the wallpaper was off the walls in the kitchen from the moisture. :(
Not sure total trees, but between the last time it was logged and cutting out the ash and other wood for firewood the last 8-10 years, have areas that are about 70-80% maple. Some probably not ready for another 2-3 years. Alot are just now about 6-7" dia. Am going to be cutting some of the bigger ash and oak out this summer in places to open up the canopy a little bit at a time in different areas. Have several that are 20-24" dia. going down a nice slope, will try 2 taps per on tubing to container, about 120' + so may have to break it up to 2 runs.
Have a 40 acre woods just north of me, 2 mile, that am going to look at this spring to see how many maples are in it, the owner said if enough could work something out, but that would probably be for 2010.
Yeah never seems to be enough time for everything, just get done what think really need to get done and try to get the rest.

[Buckeye mapler]

have you had a chance to read the north american maple syrup prodcers manual? i just started on it, but there is alot of useful info for people even in our stage. they strongly suggest planning for sugar bush management in our stage, especially thinning. i got my book from an Ohio State University etension office for $25 for a hard back edition. if i am not telling you something you already know, you gotta get this book!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It is definitely the best $ 25 you will ever spend. When I got my paperback copy, I did the same as mapleman3 and we took it to staples and had them to spiral bind the book and laminate the covers. This book is great for someone looking to get into maple or expand into a large operation from a backyard. There is so much info and it is written so about anyone can understand everything in it. Make sure you get the newest and latest edition instead of the older version you may find used on the internet or a book site like Amazon.

[MFarmall]

Got my manual in April, got it from local extension office. It came spiral bound and covers are already laminated, was $18 there. When ordered it the info said it was an OH extension pamphlet, when went to pick it up and was told $18, thought "for a pamphlet???" till they gave it to me.
Better get going, got to check the new heat tape put on water lines in my mom's basement yesterday. With temps last night and tonight just want to be sure, at least the wind has dropped down from last night. Only 8 right now, was -1 this time last night.

[Buckeye mapler]

yeah these temps are horrible. I got the 2nd edition. i can't put it down once i start reading it. really need to start making some notes as i read and come across things i find really interesting of helpful. in fact, i amgetting ready to start reading now. i am also wondering about the support line tools. the line ratchets that tighten the lines, are those transferable to other mainline support wires or do you have to have a different rachet for each line?

[Russell Lampron]

You put a ratchet at the ends of each wire and leave it there. On a mainline run I use 4, two for the wire and 2 for the pipe. Most of my mainline runs are 500' or longer.

[Buckeye mapler]

Russell,
so they have ratches for the pipe too? those have to be different from the wire ratchet, so what are they called and about how much do they cost? do you put them at opposite ends? thanks for the reply.

[Russell Lampron]

I use the same ratchets for both. I put a tension grip which is like chinese fingers on the pipe and run a wire from it to the ratchet. I don't use the ratchets that go in the middle of the wire. I use them at each end of the wire and pipe. That way if I need to loosen or tighten the wire or pipe and I am working at one end of the line I don't have to go all of the way down to the other end which can be close to 1000' away. I get my ratchets from Tractor Supply for $1.99 each.

[Buckeye mapler]

I see, that's what I'm talking about. i have seen those tension grips in the catalog. thanks for the info! as i read sometimes i come up with questions and can't quite put my finger on what they are saying.

[newman_maple]

I ordered some Ohio jugs from Sugar Bush Supplies.
( http://www.sugarbushsupplies.com/2007_Catalog/bacon_plastic.pdf )

The prices for the quantities and sizes I ordered are:

Half Gallon Partial Case (12 jugs) $20.60
Quart Partial Case (12 jugs) $15.54
Half Pint Full Pack (100 jugs) $92.30
Full case pint jugs (100 jugs) $102.40
3.4 oz. Partial Pack (12 jugs) $10.74

I will get them the first of the week. I will let you know how they look and/or post a color pic.

[adk1]

I ordered my NAMaple Producers Book yesterday about this time from Leader. It arrived already today! now that is quick!

[Bradenfish]

Buckeye Mapler, i'd be glad to talk to you. i'm a half hour north of dayton.