Sugar house location

[Acer]

Where did you put your sugar house and why?

I assume these play into the decision, but not sure which are the main drivers. what are your opinions?

electricity access
running water access
sap location
proximity to main house
on a plowed road/driveway
favorite place
etc.


Seems of all these the sap is easiest to move and probably the least important factor in the decision.

Probably looking to run vac and RO at some point.

Thanks,

Dean

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Acer,
You have hit the high points, now figure your priorities. After 50+ years in a location near most of our trees, we just built new. The new sugar house is near my house (50 ft). I now have access to electric and running water. I will no longer walk 1/4 mile in the dark at 2:00 AM to find a warm bed. Steam billowing right beside the road is a good advertisement (not many people today enjoy a walk across a plowed clay field to visit, 9 year old boys excepted). I am expanding and an RO is part of the plans so electricity is vital. In the original location, all sap was hauled by horses so proximity to the woods was important. It was also built into a hillside so gravity did most of my pumping work. Now, 70% f my sap is pumped to the sugar house. In the past 10 years we have had electric via a generator but the grid is much handier. Not much fun to be in the middle of a syrup draw and hearing the tell tale signs and sounds of the generator running out of gas. OH %^&$!

[Haynes Forest Products]

My shack is in the best possible spot............. its on my land. I would say that all of the facters you mentioned are important. I would say parking is the biggest issue. WHAT PARKING yea I do not do any retail but its the friends helpers and gakers that cause the most problems. I fill my bulk tank by gravity and I need a clear shot at backing up to the tank and when someone parkes and blocks the area Im pissed and I want to get in get out and get to having fun. I can say most times I went out side to move a truck or get room to work is when I screwd up at the evaporator. OK now for my confession.........I was working alone cooking and I just set my draw off valve on dribble and went to get a rag from the other room when a buddy pulled in and blocked the driveway so I got distracted and went out and asked him to move but he was only here for a second and well........Hot sap really cleans a floor real nice.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Mine is right on the road which is a 1 lane paved road 1.5 miles directly off of I-64 exit. I have no trees and I had all my stuff set up in my dad's building and he decided to sell and move aprox 3 to 4 years ago after he had lived there for 30 years. I couldn't afford any land with maple trees, so I bought a small piece of property on the corner of my father's family's property. It was a junk lot with a lot of fill dumped on it and drainage problems and after 3 years, I have made it into a very nice lot. I have plenty of parking between road and building, no mud and easy access and easy for people to find since 100% of the Interstate traffic off of the exit dump onto the road it is on even though the majority go the other way, it makes it very easy to find.

Oh yeah, the lot was cheap too. Pretty much my last choice but I hadn't thought of it before really. Nice thing is that it is less than 1/2 acre, but my lot is aprox 200+ x 55 feet and plenty big for me and all grass around me for the most part, so no worries about fire.

[brookledge]

I agree you have pretty much listed the most important factors you just need to prioritize them and go for it. Keeping in mind the future also helps.
Acess for vehicles and electricity should come first As for the sap location it can be pumped and trucked if needed as you said. If you plan on vac. and RO then you probably would be better off with a 200Amp panel so keep it close to rd. to keep that cost down.
Keith

[peacemaker]

i agree especial after having temp set ups with no water or eletrics ...if u can gather easly without worring about being a royal pain then go close to the house and electic and water but dont forgot solar for lights and such ... no leaves in the way when your boiling ..my new building well new to me its old but has a brand new poured floor and electric and water i just need to get a on demand hot water heater ...i have to hal all but maybe 5 taps to the house ... when i out grow this building in a few years the shack will be so that almost all my tap line trees run right in to the sugar house ...

[Sugarmaker]

Acer,
As others have said you got the main issues. Easy access, close to home if possible, water and electric.
Our sugarhouse is within 100 feet of house. We ran water and electric (100 amp)from the house. I put in a good driveway (mat and 12 tri-axels of rail road ballast plus 50 ton of 411) in a horse shoe from the existing drive past the sugarhouse and back to the road. We rent almost all our roadside trees so we haul sap to the sugarhouse and need a good solid rive to stay out of the mud.
Parking is at a premium during our maple open house Taste and Tour when as many as 400 folks come through in 2 days! At that time they just have to park on the road. I have easy access from a paved road and the sugarhouse is only 100 feet from the road.
I try to plow the entire drive during the winter too, so that customers can get near the sugarhouse.
Chris

[danno]

My decision was easy - the barn was already there:) Only about 35 steps from the kitchen door.

[Acer]

This place is great. Nice to be able to draw on your experience.
Still don't have an obvious "best" location, I'm sure it'll get more obvious with 3' of snow on the ground though.

Thanks,

Dean

[Acer]

Anyone use a spring or stream for their sugar house water, and how does that work for you?

Thanks.

[brookledge]

Yes I do. I pump out of a brook right next to the sugarhouse that is very clean. And I get hot water from my steam hood.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

Is the stream food grade ?.................just checking

[Sugarmaker]

Any water source could become contaminated. I use the recommendation from the local Pa food inspector and get the water tested each year. If he stops in at the beginning of the season I have the document to prove that the water sample was tested and passed. This is a public precaution. Cost is $25.00 per year to get the sample tested. Just part of doing business.

Chris

[forester1]

I was planning to use water from a stream once I get going, plus the steam hood. I drink water straight from the stream now, so it's really clean. I'm glad others here are doing it. I have no electric. My sugarbush is near my camp and 2 miles off a plowed road, everything is rustic. I placed it downhill so all the sap will run to the sugarhouse, and to be near the stream.

[peacemaker]

forester why not run some hydro does the stream have enough flow

[peacemaker]

anyone running there sugar house off the grid i mean not including gas generators ..

[forester1]

I'm thinking of it. Everything takes money, always in short supply. I need to buy the tubing, vacuum pump, better generator, the list goes on.

[peacemaker]

if the flow is good u can use a small cars generator ... do a search for homemade hydro
lots of good plans this one guys has a camp thats been light up or something for ten years ish straight

[ennismaple]

Our camp was built 35 years ago by my grandfather and father and was put beside the cottage road for easy access. Power and water come from my uncle's house next door. The camp was built into the side of the hill so everything gravity drains from the gathering tank into the holding tanks and then the evaporator. The downside of this location location is we have to go get all our sap - nothing comes straight into the camp.

[Revi]

Our sugarhouse is in the only place that really made sense along the road frontage. The tubing runs right into it. It's by the road and the power. It's the perfect place for it. We spend a lot of time there in season, so it's good to have it right by the road. We carry water and stuff, so it's good that it's near.

http://www.msad54.org/sahs/appliedarts/artlofving/IL/PortWebIL/SugarHouseAlbum/pages/MVC-002S_JPG.htm

[markct]

well mine is about 50 ft from the driveway and downhill a bit so a piece of mainline on a cable from a tree by the driveway lets me dump my truck tank by gravity. but the whole 8 by 21 sugarhouse sits on two galvanized i beam skids so it can be dragged to a new location if need be, probably in a few years when i build a house on a section of my parents land i will move it closer to there, its just on a heavy extension cord from an outside outlet box on a dedicated 20 amp circuit

[jrthe3]

my dad made syrup for years in a shack in the woods by flashlight when i took over i built the new shack it is 33 feet from road cause law state has to be more the 30 feet from road first year i used a genorator then that summer i hooked to the power it cost about 100 dollars a year for power

[tuckermtn]

peacemaker..I think CNC Caboose is off the grid...solar I think for lights...

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

My brother operates completely off the grid. House, barn and sugar house. Uses a combo of Solar and hydro power. It was kind of spendy to set up but the power company wanted 40K 20 years ago to hook him up. It was much cheaper to build his own.

[Maple Restoration]

We run completely off the grid our shack is 1587 ft. From the house the shack has propane lights and Colman stove 3 12v batteries run the blower fan for the arch and the 4” b&w TV. We would like to run a vacuum system but it is too costly to run hydro up their some day we will find the cost effective solution to ramp things up.

[cncaboose]

I am off the grid at the sugarhouse. There's no power along the road where my bush is so it was forced on me. It cost only about $350 for 2 solar panels, 2 golfcar batteries, and an inverter. Runs my sap pump and lights fine but the batteries did run low at the end of last season. I just switched the inverter over to the tractor and was good to go. Real downside to this location is no water. We have to haul it there or bring stuff home for cleaning. I plan on getting a preheater going this year or next which will give us at least some water there on boil days.
I think location depends some on what the owner is looking to accomplish. WE wanted it where it was quiet for relaxation instead of on the super busy main road where we live. So it's at the bush where the sap and firewood are close. Teh specific spot was actually picked by my son who didn't like my choice of sites and made convincing, and correct, arguments that it needed to be where it is. It's great when we have visitors to take them right out to the trees to see the sap drip and collect a few buckets and then come in to see it boil. Kids really like that stuff, almost as much as I do. If you want 5000 taps you can't do it this way but for a small operation like ours the ambience may outweigh some of the inconvenience.
A key point on location is drainage. Make sure your shack is high and dry. A friend of mine built his at the bottom of his sloped bush which is fabulous for sap handling. Gravity delivers it all right into his feed tank. But......... he can't drive anywhere near it during sugaring because it is like a big mudbog down there. He also is off the grid with solar and uses 12V automobile lights so he doesn't need an inverter.
Visit as many sugar houses as you can. Before I put mine up I tried to get into as many as possible, probably 6 or 8. I learned something at every one, which I was able to take home and use when I set mine up. It's neat to be able to point to different things and say I got this idea from Bob, that idea from Fred, that road plan from Tom, etc. I hope this helps you in your thought process.

[peacemaker]

i no in vt and ny now theres grants for solar wonder if its the same for a sugar hous e

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I drilled a well at the sugarhouse and have the water pipe ran underneath it and up thru the floor and insulated. Well cost me $ 2700 for 200' and a high end gould submersible pump installed and wired up which was all down by the well service. Lot of $$$, but the extreme amount of pressure I have is great. I was 29 at the time and hope to be able to use the building as a weekend getting/hunting camp, etc even if I don't make syrup, so I looked at the well as a good real estate investment. I have a valve in the ground that is shut off and the water pipe has a pressure relief valve on it to keep from burning up the pump until I get water on inside with a pressure tank so now the only water I have is at the frost free faucet outside and the pressure is like a pressure washer. I hope to be able to get the kitchen and bedroom/bathroom finished on the inside this year or next so I can have water on the inside too. Either way, with the pressure, sure could put out a fire fast and it works great for washing out the tanks at the end of every day and the tractor. I got a couple of the $ 6 twist nozzles at Lowes and they are awesome and should last forever pending I don't run over one of them.

[hard maple]

Brandon
I don't know how you washed things up before but the new water source will be invaluable.
Anymore upgrades?

[peacemaker]

i got the go ahead today to start prepping the new sugar house i can start to add on the wood shed and start the remolding part i need to do (of course first i need to empty her out ) but its official i will have a real sugar house with electric and water and windows and doors and a slab .... its xmas early

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I had the well before I made syrup there the first year. Before, I always made syrup in my dad's building before he decided to sell and move, so water wasn't a problem there and eventually we ran water right to the building so it was 10' from the evaporator.

[maple flats]

My sugarhouse is in my woods, where the taps were before I started to grow and rent trees. Now it has no water nor elec except when I run the generator. My wife and I have plans to build a new, (retirement), home at the sugarhouse, about 70' away. The sugarhouse sets 400' off the road, but has a good driveway, never muddy. I have started a continuation of the drive so it circles around one of my smaller bushes and back onto the driveway out towards the road. This extension is not yet ready for mud season traffic even thou I use it the rest of the year. We plan to go solar and wind. Have not yet decided if we will be off grid or on. The big factor seems to be credits that are available for grid tied but not for off grid. The big draw for off grid is that there is no need to buy the 450' that would need to be for lines in from the road, and the feeling of total self sufficiency. The wind will only be a small part, mostly solar, with generator backup. Will need a sizable bank of storage batteries to carry bigger demand periods even thou most of the time we use very little compared to many. Looking at the best battery choice, fork lift or better we think.

[Acer]

Thanks for the help.

Found my spot.
Not too far from power, bush, road, house or the log landing. spring nearby, but won't need that if I go with RO. Find more sugars there every time I look for 'em.
Great view too. That was the clincher.


D

[michiganfarmer]

Not much fun to be in the middle of a syrup draw and hearing the tell tale signs and sounds of the generator running out of gas. OH %^&$!

LOL that stinks

[Sugarmaker]

Acer,
Send pictures of the site. sounds great.
Chris