Beer Kegs

[mapleman3]

I mentioned in the Nov journal that I scored 6 beer kegs... all were easy to take the valve out but 1
the keg is a guiness keg a 13.5 gal it has a different type of valve that I belive may screw out. but the normal way to unscrew it doesn't work...you know those anti tamper screws they have where you can use a regular screwdriver to put on but you only can go 1 way with them? well this valve is similar. they call it a "U"Style valve I cant find anything on how to take them off..... any thoughts??

And how do all you who use kegs , clean them? I used a pressure washer seems pretty good,
Do you just leave upside down and drain till dry? do you cap them in the off season?

Any help??

[tuckermtn]

check for an online homebrew forum...

might have a different tap fitting on it as I think some breweries like to put stouts on a nitro tap...

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

If you can see the thread and determine the handing of it, try a easyout, or drill it close to the size and collapse the threaded plug with a punch..

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Snoop- You sound like your the expert on Kegs.

We're going to move some serious gravel this next summer. (With the Gold dredge's/Not mainline=lol) Should we invite the Pirate and PATheron to the expedition in NW Maine or do we need to see permission slips from momma first?

[brookledge]

Jim
It sounds like you have a 50 liter keg. I have one and it has fine thread. I took the supply tube out as I did with the american style 15.5 gallon ones. Give me a day or two and I will look at mine to see if I can remember how I took it out.
As for cleaning them I have made a nozzle that goes on my pressure washer that has two nozzles one pointing down and one pointing up. So when I put it through the top, the inside top of the keg and all areas get sprayed.
I then turn over and let dry and will usually put some plastic wrap or plastic bag over the hole and hold it in place with a rubber band or tape. Then it is good to go in the spring. Otherwise you need to clean again because who knows what has been inside it.
The only time I usually leave a keg open to air out is when they have never had syrup in them.
So Jim if you leave them open until sugaring season then wash them again.
Then after that I would always keep them sealed.
Keith

[mapleman3]

Keith I figure maybe if I grind a couple slots in the valve and use a wonderbar as a wrench maybe. hey did you get my PM? Thought about it?

[brookledge]

Jim
I looked at the keg today and since I don't have the supply tube anymore I can't tell how I got it out. Only thing I can see is that it is real fine thread. So I must have turned it out some how Sorry I couldn't help more.
I replied to your pm also
Keith

[markct]

i believe it does screw out, i had a becks keg a few years back that i had a project planned for, it was that weird 13.5 gal size too. what i did was find a piece of flat stock that fit between the tangs and turned it with a big adjustable wrench while the keg was horizontal between my legs on the floor of the machine shop i used to work at. all was going well, it took a bit to break it free then turned a bit and heard some hissing as the pressure released and it stopped then as i turned a bit more and then kaboom the wrench went flying and the drawtube shot across the shop and ricoceted off the drillpress and headed down the hallway, and a smell of skunky beer filled the shop, after everyone came running and asking alot of questions we got looking at it and found that there was a groove for the o ring that as ya backed it out the oring then resealed sorta against the next smooth section, thus giving me the impression all the pressure was relieved, but it wasnt of couse since it shot outa there. so just use caution and keep it pointed away from you! i was surprised it had any pressure left in the first place cause it had been in a storage trailer for over 3 years, so i guess they do seal well!

[mapleman3]

the biggest thing about beer kegs is ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS let the pressure out slowly before removing the valve.... I have a dowel and I put a good sized rag over the "ball" and push a little with the dowel and let the rag take the pressure and skunky beer and gook... DONT do it in the sugarhouse it will stink it up(experience here)I managed to have one stick open and shoot straight up.. yuk

I read of a bar guy who removed a valve without depressuring and had the dip tube go right up through his skull... Urban Myth?? I wouldn't want to find out!!

[markct]

yup definatly wanna remove the pressure. first thing i do to any keg i get is put the tap on it, well dont we all! but seriously like ya said there is alot of pressure in there, i dont even like to be over it while taking the tube out even if i relieved the pressure, just cause ya never know if something plugged up etc

[shawk]

In my large collection of homebrewing gear I have 3 unaltered half barrel kegs(15.5 gal) the others where turned into a hot liquor tank and a boil kettle. I plan on using one or two for bulk storage this year. My question is after you have pulled the valve and dip tube out, how are you getting the syrup out of the kegs?

[brookledge]

I keep saying I'm going to get a drum pump but never do. So I usually begin by pouring into a half gallon pitcher for the first few gallons and then pour straight from the keg into my canning pan. It holds 20 gal so I can can a whole keg at a time.
Keith

[mapleman3]

I plan on using my filter press gear pump... it is a seperate unit and worked great for the 5 gal drums, should work even better for the beer kegs.. the just tip and pour out the rest at the end into a container.... now to come up with a big enough vessel for re-heating the syrup before first filtering and putting into bulk.... I have always made enough daily to just use my turkey fryer(for syrup only)pot which is around 7-8 gallons... now I could easily be making 15-20 gals a day... so I want to bulk a lot of it.

been looking at some 75 gal stock pots on ebay...

[Bucket Head]

Jim,

I am familiar with tamper-proof hardware, I use it all the time at work.

I am having trouble picturing your valve setup and hardware. Not too familiar with brewing equipment.

Sometimes this works; get the biggest straight bladed screwdriver that will still fit in the slot. Then lean on it-put as much force as you can on to prevent it from "riding up" as you turn the screwdriver. If they are not stuck, they will come out. Again, I have no idea how big this hardware is, or how tightly the screws were installed.

Possibility #2. How large, or small are the heads of these screws? If they are not really small and are not recessed in any way, you can try this. Get a pair of needle nosed Vise-Grips. Size depends on screw size. Make sure they have sharp teeth on the jaws. That is crucial. Then try clamping them on the head of the screw and backing them out as if you were using a box end wrench. If the head is too small, or the teeth are not sharp enough to grab whatever is there, this will not work.

Then you will have to do the head grinding/head drilling, screw extractor method. Or cut off heads, remove valve, and then clamp on to remaing screw and remove..., hopefully.

The first two tricks usually work with the hardware I work with.

Good luck!

Steve

[KenWP]

I am wondering on a beer keg if there is anyway to plug the holes after taking the guts out of them. What size plug do you use to plug the two holes. Or do I have to leave the goofy tap in at the bottom instead of taking it out and putting in a plug.

[Fred Henderson]

You can use a rubber expansion plug, Just put it in a food grade baggie so the rubber does not touch the syrup.

[Snow Hill Farm]

I have a bunch of used beer kegs that I have altered to work really well. You cut the neck where the tap location is right off. Then buy a 2" stainless steel male/male pipe connector and cut in half. Weld one half to the keg and use a 2" pvc or stainless cap. Easy to clean and see in. Any local brewery will have used ones that have a bad tap seal and will give them away or sell cheap (as long as stainless scrapprices stay low)...

[Fred Henderson]

I had to pay 10 buck a piece for mine. I have two and have had them for about 10 years. I think I would use a F/M coupling, that way the threads would be protected. The plug that goes in it can be replaced easily if it get damaged.

[C.Wilcox]

I have really good luck removing stuck bolts, screws, bungs, etc. with a hammer and a drift punch. Just put the punch on the outer edge (gives you as much mechanical advantage as possible) of the whatever you're trying to unscrew and hold it at a low angle so that it will dig in a little as you drive it in a counter-clockwise direction. Then start tapping with the hammer. I have used this on some seriously intimidating parts and it has never failed.

[KenWP]

I guess from what I am told here that there is no plug that will work to plug the hole in the bottom or the top.I will have to weld it solid on the bottom and use the expansion plug if I can find one for the top. Was really trying to come up with some kind of tap for the bottom to drain it after its full of syrup instead of trying to pur out of the top and not being able to get it all empty due to the rim. Might have to invent another kind of tank to hold syrup then.

[Fred Henderson]

Can you read? I just told you what you can use. A rubber expansion plug, usually found at plumbing suppy houses. I think that Maplehound uses them. U

[brookledge]

That is what I use either a 1 7/8" or 2"
Keith

[KenWP]

But how do you get the syrup out of the thing. You can't take a rubber plug out of a keg full of syrup to fill something else. We are talking a 2 inch hole. That's a lot of syrup all at once to pour out of anything.
And yes I can read but answers that don't work are not what I was looking for. The web site one of the guys gave me talks about being able to find fittings for them but what are they called and where would one find them is the problem.

[Fred Henderson]

Well I am sure if there is a fitting then many of us traders would like to know about it. I started using the 5 gal soda containers. Cornellis kegs I think that is what they are called. They are lighter and eaiser to handle. Plus you can get an adpter to charge them with hospital nitogen. I bought my on ebay.

[KenWP]

Well if all else I can grinad down a fitting to go in the bottom and solder it in and attach a valve. Was just hopeing for a easy way out. The rubber plug will work well for the top just have to find one as I have never heard of such a critter untill now. Have to practice to say rubber in french now. It's caoutchchouc and plug is boucher so I am set. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Fred Henderson]

All it consist of is a steel or SS plate top and bottom with rubber in the middle, a bolt and a wing nut. Insert and turn wing nut to compress the rubber which causes it to expand outward. Find a pic of one and show it to the plumbing supply.

[Z/MAN]

Ken,
You might want to try an auto parts store. There they are called rubber expandable soft plugs. They are used to replace a bad (rusted) metal soft plug in the side of an automobile engine.

[tuckermtn]

seen some beer kegs advertised as alum. and some as stainless. will a magnet stick to the stainless that is used in the stainless kegs? trying to help tell them apart. Do some have a alum. outside and stainless inside? Thanks for the input- I'm a newbee on the beer kegs...

[shawk]

A magnet will not stick to stainless. I have not seen any aluminum kegs before and all of the brewers that I know only use stainless.

[KenWP]

I have seem more aluminium kegs then SS up here. The one SS keg I have is made in the US and is marked as a US brewery in St. Loius. I might try to weld a connection to the bottom hole for syrup removal instead of trying to find a connection that will screw in. Other then that is a expensive peice of scrap metal.

[Z/MAN]

A lot of the older style kegs that used the two prong tap were either alum or stainless. It is pretty easy to tell them apart. The aluminum are dull and rough textured whereas the stainless are shiny and smooth. If you took a knife or nail you would lightly scratch a stainless keg and you would dig in a lot deeper on a aluminum keg because it is a lot softer material. There aren't to many aluminum kegs around anymore. The price of aluminum has made them very attractive as scrap!
Paul

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

A magnet will not stick to stainless. I have not seen any aluminum kegs before and all of the brewers that I know only use stainless.

I have a stack thermometer with a magnet and it sticks to it really hard and my stack is stainless????

[johnallin]

You are right. I just installed a stainless roof jack and stack from Leader and was able to use a magnetic plumber's level to keep it all plumb.

Surprised me too, but that little level stuck like glue to the stack. A link is below with some explanation as to what may cause the change.

http://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1140

[Haynes Forest Products]

Just ask the moron who ordered all the non magnetic SS for their refrigerator doors:o Man if you want to see a confused 2 year old with the alphabet on the floor:cry: One nice thing is no art :rolleyes: work.

[KenWP]

SS is ferrous and non ferrous. In Stanstead there's a french fellow who worked for the tap and die factory that's a metalurgist and he can actually by heart tell you the composition of different steels. He explains non ferrous SS as haveing so much chromium and such that a magnet will not stick to it. That and he makes marvolus knives out of SS also that you can sharpen yourself.

[tuckermtn]

finally got around to pulling out the valves from the 4 kegs I got a few weeks back. first three went no problem- no pressure, not much beer- on the last one, about the size of the soda kegs, I went to press the ball in on top and got a face full of stale Long Trail beer. all over me and 1/2 the barn. Merry Christmas to me...

does anyone know what size rubber stoppers work on the tops? It looks like a #10.5 or #11.

[KenWP]

What do you do with the wooden plug and the valve on the bottom of the kegs.

[brookledge]

I use either a 1 7/8" or 2" rubber expansion plug. Some of the 2" will fit good while others are to tight. It depends on the manufactuer of the plug. The 1 7/8 will always work. I also use a sandwich bag or some kind of plastic to put over the hole and then push the plug in. Most rubber plugs are not food grade and smell so I like to keep the syrup from contacting the rubber.
Ken
Not sure what you are refering to about a wooden plug or valve. On beer kegs they have a supply tube in the top that is about 18" long.
Pop the snap ring out, quarter turn the supply tube and lift it out. Then wash it out.
Keith

[KenWP]

The SS beer keg I have has a wooden plug in the side and a valve in the bottom plus the hole in the top. All kegs I ever seen had the wooden plug in the side but this is the first with a valve in the bottom also. The holes take a 1 3/4 plug which dosn't seem to exist. I have to weld the bottom hole over and fit a tap of some kind plus plug the hole in top. I assumed you guys just left the wooden plug alone in the side.

[brookledge]

Ken
You must have different type of kegs where you are. The ones around here have one hole. If it has a wooden plug in it then how does it stand up to the CO2 and pressure for dispensing? I'm assumming it is not threaded if it has a wooden plug. The kegs around here 1/2 keg is 15.5 gal and quarter keg is 7.75gal. and when you conect a regulator on it it lets the CO2 in through the top which pressurizes the keg and forces the beer up and out through the supply tube.
Keith

[KenWP]

These kegs do the same thing here also. Thru that ball valve. I have no idea what the wooden plug is used for. You tap the keg and draw off untill it stops and then pressure with co2 and then you don't get as much foam.
I have used the really old ones where you took the top tube and then had to hit it hard and tighten it in to knock the pug out. They were aluniuim in those days. The tube went down to the bottom and then you tighted the lock ring and then used the co2 when the pressure dropped.
That's maybe why I am haveing trouble. It's a weird keg bit it is made in Saint Loius.
The ball valve has a threaded ring holds it in and the valve at the bottom has a threaded ring also. The ring has a couple square notches in it for a wrench of some kind. the top hole looks the same as the kegs you guys use but its got this valve on the bottom uses a triangle shaped key to open it.

[tuckermtn]

just got my 6 kegs back from the welder-

had 2" NPT SS threaded couplers welded on to the hole where the tap went.

next question is what type of plug do guys use? stainless or some type of PVC?

was thinking of something like this:

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/SHARON-PIPING-Square-Head-Plug-6JL24?Pid=search

[Amber Gold]

Those are pretty pricey. I'm sure you can find replacement bung caps for much cheaper than that. A quick search turned up the following:

http://www.bayteccontainers.com/bungcapcourse.html (Pastic though)

http://www.mcontainer.com/ProductCategories.aspx?cat=IBCs+Tools+%26+Equipmen t&cat2=Stainless+Steel+IBCs+Parts&cat3=Bung+Plug+Gaskets

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ken the wooden plug is how they fill the keg. When it comes back to the brewery they have a drill set up that has a big screw that pulls the plug out and then they dump the old beer out and clean the keg. Then after filling they pound a new plug in and off it goes. The plug can stand the pressure.

[tuckermtn]

where is KenWP?