GBM Evaporators

[Tweegs]

If you missed my intro, basically my wife and I are going to start with 50 taps this year, we have 125 and the possibility of another 50 (border property) taps in near future.

We have yet to buy an arch.

We are looking at a 2X6 continuous flow GBM Outdoorsman.
(I can provide a link if someone needs, but will refrain for now. Don't know if it is considered proper here.)

I know The Maple Guys sell this line, unfortunately I didn't see the continuous flow offered on their site.

Does anyone here have experience with the GBM line of evaporators?
Good, bad, pro's, con's ?

Would like to get some feedback prior to making a purchase.

Thanks much,
Tweegs

[Clan Delaney]

I'll jump in here. Welcome to the group, by the way. I've only been here since August, but everyone here has given all kinds of help and suggestions since then (and they're not done yet!)

Okay, so, disclaimer: I don't own a GBM evaporator, nor do I know anyone (yet) who does. So I can't exactly help you there. I can offer this opinion: if you're in the market to spend around $1500 (the model you mentioned is listed around $1350 by the Maple Guys) then you should get something that a) allows for continuous production of syrup and b) is easily upgradeable. I am still in awe, frankly, of setups that just constantly feed sap in one end and draw syrup off the other. I've been doing batch syrup for 4 years. If I had the $$ to invest in a new (or even used evaporator) right now, it would be something that would get me out of batching and into continuous production. You also mentioned wanting to start fairly small this year, but that you already have the resources to increase capacity. I'd say try to get something as close to what would handle those 175 taps you mentioned with what you've budgeted. Have you looked at other manufacturers and models?

[markcasper]

Tweegs,

The following is a copy that I made to another Trader earlier this year:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“GBM Affordable Line” of evaporators. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this line of evaporators that they were willing to share with a newbie. Thanks
Vin[/quote]

Vin,

I have had experience with this "line". It was the worst experience in my maple career! I lost alot of money and 1/2 of my 1997 crop. I would strongly advise against anything to do with this. You are welcome to pm me for more specifics.

Truly Yours, Mark

[Amber Gold]

I'd buy a used 2x6 with flue and syrup pans. Also I wouldn't start small and just go for broke and tap them all. If you've got them there's really no point in not tapping them. The amount of money you'll spend in buying either taps/buckets and/or tubing for the additional taps is negligible compared to the extra syrup you'll make.

[peacemaker]

not to mention if done right and the rig is sized to the taps besides cutting more wood its the same amout of work

[Tweegs]

Thanks for the input folks.

The main reasons for starting small this year is I have no idea how much wood I'm going to go through and I still don't have a shack built. We don't yet know how much time we will have to invest and this could be a little problematic as we both still work. I'm not sure how I would run tubing, though I will learn in time, so this years collection will be in buckets. Given the location of the trees, I'll need about 50 buckets anyway.
There is a small stand of perhaps 25 taps that I could try to get tubing on, just to see how it goes....may well try that in addition to the other 50.
(awww crap, before you know it I will have 'em all tapped :D )

From a realistic appraisal, I see this year as a total calamity, but it will give us an opportunity to figure out how to increase efficiency.

No doubt, we want to get an evaporator that will handle all of these taps, perhaps more, from the start. Continuous flow over batch processing is a priority for us. Being a woodworker, I know full well that when it comes to equipment, generally you get what you pay for.
Somehow I thought this might be different, should have known better.

We have looked at some of the other manufacturers, most were about twice the price for something equivalent to the GBM. There is probably a reason for that eh? One thing that sent red flags up about the GBM was the hand sketched drawings in their instruction manual. Petty, I know, but not usually a trade mark of quality.

We'll have to play with the budget a bit. Would like to buy new, but used may have to do. Lots of start-up costs and I refuse to finance anything beyond my home and vehicle. I don't even own a credit card, in the end they tend to own you. :)

Christmas is right around the corner, boy, doesn't that put a dent in your wallet....3 kids all grown up. Can't fool 'em anymore, that lump of coal trick just don't get it these days. They all want the expensive stuff...really gotta break them of that.....spoiled brats.
BTW, what is a curmudgeon? They keep calling me that.

Got a nice surprise yesterday, turns out I still have quite a bit more vacation time than I thought, had carry over time from last year that I forgot about...Looks like I'll be taking the week after Thanksgiving off. Should give me a good start on all that needs doin'.

I'll check in from time to time to rant and vent about how things are going.
Snags and hiccups plague me, such is my lot in life.
Good to be able to ramble on to folks who can relate, somehow I find that comforting.

[peacemaker]

tweegs as far as wood goes its roughly 1 cord makes 20 gals of syrup .... but in short notice use pallets and any scrap u get from work ... tubing is tight straight and down hill... and pick up yourself a maple syrup producers manuel will answer 90 percent of your ?? and if u dont understand something in it anyone on here that can help will

[Tweegs]

tweegs as far as wood goes its roughly 1 cord makes 20 gals of syrup .... but in short notice use pallets and any scrap u get from work ... tubing is tight straight and down hill... and pick up yourself a maple syrup producers manuel will answer 90 percent of your ?? and if u dont understand something in it anyone on here that can help will

My fault, I was a little vague. I picked up on the tight, straight and downhill from other posts. I was talking more about the logistics of my property in particular. Which trees on what lines, how to tie who to what....that sort of thing.

At a cord per 20, methinks I need to cut some more wood. Got plenty dead still standing and a bunch down too. Only a little work stands between it and the wood pile. Use wood as the main source of heat for the house.
We are on propane out here, that stuff is expensive. Really hate kicking on the furnace.

I have the wife on the horn trying to get a copy of that manual right now. Thanks.

[peacemaker]

no worries ... as far as pallets i made 55 gals last year and burned 300 pallets

[TapME]

Tweegs, just think in a couple of years your wood lot will look great. Nice and clean and no standing dead trees.
We made 20 gallons on a cord of wood last year, and that was for the most part a 16 ft trailers worth. Have you looked at a 55 gallon drum with a pan on the top as your first evaporator? just m 2 cents

[Clan Delaney]

We don't yet know how much time we will have to invest and this could be a little problematic as we both still work.

I think that the majority of us have other jobs. You're not alone. I've been saving up my vacation time so that I can take it in pieces when the season arrives. I plan to take Monday and Friday off each week so I have Friday thru Monday to boil. Just let sap collect the other 3 days. With 2 weeks (or 10 days) of vacation, I figure I'm all set for a 5 week season. If it goes longer, I start bribing people with syrup.

[Tweegs]

I think that the majority of us have other jobs. You're not alone. I've been saving up my vacation time so that I can take it in pieces when the season arrives. I plan to take Monday and Friday off each week so I have Friday thru Monday to boil. Just let sap collect the other 3 days. With 2 weeks (or 10 days) of vacation, I figure I'm all set for a 5 week season. If it goes longer, I start bribing people with syrup.

And there's always *cough**cough* sick days *cough* :D

Couldn't take that much vacation....would cut too deep into my fishing time :grin:

Thought we would boil all weekend and try to fire up Tues and Thurs nights to stay a little ahead, or at least not fall too far behind...all subject to change, of course. Could slip in a vacation day here and there should we need.

[Tweegs]

Tweegs, just think in a couple of years your wood lot will look great. Nice and clean and no standing dead trees.
We made 20 gallons on a cord of wood last year, and that was for the most part a 16 ft trailers worth. Have you looked at a 55 gallon drum with a pan on the top as your first evaporator? just m 2 cents

May take more than a couple of years. The original owners passed away 2 years ago and were too sick to really take care of the place a few years prior to them passing. The wood lot, about 18 acres worth, hasn't been tended to in probably 8-10 years. The rest of the property is either hay field or lawn....depending on how I feel.:)

Actually, we have been giving thought to the evaporator. The $3700+ for a Leader is a bit much for us to shell out right now, no matter how I try to tweak the budget. Holding tanks, pick-up tanks, buckets, spiles, filters, tubing and all other assorted paraphernalia add up. I'm of the mind that I only want to buy 1 evaporator, so it needs to be a good one.

I figure if I spend a little extra now on everything else and get good stuff, I could probably make do with a homemade block arch for this season and get the Leader next year.

Found a couple of used 2X6 pans for a decent price online. May well pick one up. If I don't mortar in the firebrick I should be able to re-use it. The concrete blocks are sure to find a home somewhere on the property. Could always sell the pan if I didn't want to keep it as a spare.

Food for thought.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Bascoms usually carries several used cross flow syrup pans that make good starter units also and are stainless at good prices.

[TapME]

I did a block arch the last 2 years and they worked fine. Last years arch was a 3x8 and it really cooked well. I will guess that a 30 gph evap rate is what it did. This year the plan is to put it on a metal arch, but we will see what happens. Good luck in your adventure, just remember its fun.

[Tweegs]

Got absolutely nothing done over the weekend.
Rained all day Sat, lots of snow and wind yesterday.
Decided to deer hunt instead, no luck there either.

Looked at Bascoms, they had a 2X6 cross flow pan that is probably OK. Start with that I guess.

Soon as the weather gives I'm going to stake out the area for the new shack.
Going with pole barn type construction.
The goal will be to get the posts set, the roof on and a slab poured for the arch before the sap starts running. I'll pour the rest of the floor and get the walls up next year.

How thick would you pour the slab for an arch?
Expect 4" will do on the rest of the floor.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I would saw that the arch cant weigh any more than the inlaws kitchen tabe at Thanksgiving. But serious if you can jack a truck up on a driveway with a bottle jack or a claw foot bathtub full of water sits on a wood floor in a house I have yet to see concrete break from evaporators. Make life easy pour it all at once with drains and rebar. OH and have fun.

[Amber Gold]

I agree just pour it all at once. It’ll be cheaper and easier and then you don’t need to worry about joints. I’d think a 4” slab would probably be fine, but then again a 6” wouldn’t hurt either…not sure what the standard is in basements. I’d put it on a 12” layer of crushed stone with drains and you shouldn’t have a problem with heaving. Also either use rebar, welded wire fabric, or synthetic fibers in the concrete mix. I’d opt for the fibers because they’re the cheaper alternative, the easiest to install because it’s in the mix, and from what I’ve heard/read they work just as good if not better than the other two. I'd also install plastic sheeting on top of the crushed stone prior to concrete placement to reduce moisture coming up through the floor.

Good luck.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I have a alaskin slab they call it. it is on well drained soil, 4" and the edges are dug down to about 8". My floor is fibercrete and it has never moved, cracked etc even with my 4x10 on it...

[Tweegs]

Would love to pour the floor all at one time, don't know if I can though.
The slab will be 12X16, too much to do by hand at once.

The driveway is 2100 ft of two-track. The proposed site is about 1400 ft. down the driveway. Couple of tight spots between the trees that I don't know if a truck could get past. Even if he could, there is no place for the driver to turn around. He would have to back all the way out, not a straight shot neither, a few twists and turns to add a little excitement.

What I need to do is call the company and have someone come out and take a look. I guess if the driver knew before hand what was going on....

Had the same problem with propane companies. Only 1, that uses a smaller truck, will even bother with us. 2 others flat out refused our business because they couldn't get turned around once they got back there.

[Haynes Forest Products]

What I have done in a situation like that is find a dump trailer or rent one and get the cement truck to the road and trailer it in. If the trailer has large spaces around the tailgate we put a tarp in that area. There is a way its ugly some times but it works. Make a small ramp to run the trailer UP BUT NOT OVER the forms and when you dump the cement will flow out and not bust up the forms. 3 yards and your done. If the trailer has swing out door use a ratchet strap to open it slowly. I would worry about multable pours they tend to seperate heave and cracks suck. Good luck

[Tweegs]

Hadn't thought of that. Sounds like a good idea, I'll see what I can dig up.

Of course, I know just enough about concrete to do a first-class job of screwing it up. :lol:

Looks like the weather is supposed to cut me some slack this weekend. Cold, but at least dry. I can take the cold, but not cold AND wet.

My little 8N has a front end loader, I'll see if I can't rent a post hole digger for the 3 pt. and get the show on the road.

Thanks for all the input guys!

[Haynes Forest Products]

What would happen if you put a 55 gallon drum in the loader and ran it up the road that way run one up drop it off run one down and just keep alternating. I try and work from the worst case senario and go from there. What if all I had was 5 gallon buckets without handles and had to walk them up by myself...what if all I had was a wheel buro with a flat tire and I was bare foot. Then I look over and see that 8N Now im starting to feel like Im In high cotton....Git Er Done

[TapME]

rent a half yard mixer and buy the concrete and sand( make sure the mixer is gas powered) and a 12 pack of your favorite beer and get it done. You would be surprise how quick it will get done. I helped my uncle pour his floor in his house in the middle of nowhere and it took about 2 hours per 12x12 section and it never looked any different than a regular floor. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

[peacemaker]

how big is the bucket on the tractor ?

[Tweegs]

how big is the bucket on the tractor ?

Not that big...maybe 4' wide, 3' deep, but it makes digging and leveling the ground much easier than doing it with a shovel....especially frozen ground.
Would need some welding to be able to haul cement, couple of holes in it.

The gas powered mixer has merit. The site is reasonably close to a pole barn.
Good place to store construction materials but there is no electricity out there.
From the house, the site is about 700', the pole barn is about 900'. We have another barn up near the house that has a 220V feed, but that's beside the point. Thinking 12V lighting for the shack, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

A corral that will soon be home to Alpaca's, two chicken coops and runs, one for layers, the other for meat birds, puts the kabash on locating the shack within easy electrical reach. Not too worried about the electricity at this point, just means I'll have to swing a hammer instead of using a nail gun. Can't say I'm real happy about it though.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

my brother and me poured my floor [ 14x 16] in 2 pours and everything worked out good. used a small mixer with electric motor

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

How big can the holes be? Throw a blue tarp in the bucket and off you go.

[Tweegs]

How big can the holes be? Throw a blue tarp in the bucket and off you go.

Big :)

Actually I was going to complain that I couldn't use the bucket at all, it's a tip bucket. Got to thinking about it on the drive home Friday. I have an old wheelbarrow with a nice deep bin. Could lash the bin down in the bucket...presto!
Should work... looks good on paper anyway :)

Got the site cleared and staked, got some more wood cut/split too. Took care of a big ole' oak that's been down a while. Good firewood there for the house. Now I can move some of the more scruffy stuff to the sugaring stack.

Had to work between the morning and evening hunts. Didn't want to screw anyone's hunt up....mine included, but got a good start nonetheless.

Got a moral dilemma. Those extra 25 or so taps on border property...
Seems the house and land are in foreclosure. Doesn't feel right to tap them without permission, yet no one to get permission from.

Anyone ever asked a bank to tap on foreclosed land?

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

i wouldnt tap without permission, especially not knowing who you might end up having for a partner.

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

You started out saying that the trees are border trees so if I understand you they are on the border? next thing to ask yourself is if they are on the border are they in the middle making them partly yours? If the new owners of the property(if and when it sells) come over and ask are those trees yours or mine what would the answer be. Now for the money question did the previouse owner give you permission to tap the trees I would tap them and leave it at that and let the new owner buy the property with understanding that you are the one tapping them and I bet things will remain the same. The funny thing is if the trees fell down and landed on your car I bet they would be your trees. One last thing The bank wont even talk to you if you had a wad of cash and wanted to buy the property so save your time sometimes its better to ask for forginess than to ask permission when it comes to bankers and thair partners in crime.

[Haynes Forest Products]

You started out saying that the trees are border trees so if I understand you they are on the border? next thing to ask yourself is if they are on the border are they in the middle making them partly yours? If the new owners of the property(if and when it sells) come over and ask are those trees yours or mine what would the answer be. Now for the money question did the previouse owner give you permission to tap the trees I would tap them and leave it at that and let the new owner buy the property with understanding that you are the one tapping them and I bet things will remain the same. The funny thing is if the trees fell down and landed on your car I bet they would be your trees. Ask permission hell the bank wont even talk to you if you had a wad of cash and wanted to buy the property so save your time these people dont care if the house blew over and ended up in your yard it would be your problem. sometimes its better to ask for forginess than to ask permission when it comes to bankers and thair partners in crime. Its not like I have an opinion on the subject!

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

If they are on the boarder you own every other one.. Thats th rules with logging.. The other option is to tap the trees on your side of the trees..

[Russell Lampron]

You own the Maples and the neighbor whoever that will be owns the pines and other trees.

[royalmaple]

andy's right, but I'm with russ. And I'll even put a twist on that, tap now so you are grandfathered.

[Tweegs]

Tell the bank, they got their lease money from you in the form of a goverment banking bailout... With as much as everyone has thrown out to banks, I wouldn't stop at the property line, you should be able to tap the whole thing...


HA! Couldn't agree more :lol:

Most of the trees in question are within about 10-15 feet of the property line, only a couple right on the line. The line runs through a good stand of maple, most of which are on my side. A tube could easily grab them all.

The thing that really gets my knickers in a twist is: The house has been vacant since June. A week before deer season (opener was the 15th), a bunch of No Trespassing signs suddenly appeared along the property line.

We knew the guy had two houses and thought he was just living at the other. Only yesterday did I find out the house was in foreclosure, and had been since July. No "For Sale", "Bank Owned" type signs out front, ever.

So this asshat comes out, marks and hunts property that no longer even belongs to him. It's easy to get mad at the audacity of this clown and somehow justify tapping those trees because of it. But he doesn't own them now.

Guess I could grab those on and closest to the line provided the house doesn't sell by spring. If it does, I need only ask and offer up some syrup in trade.

[peacemaker]

i say tap them ..and like matt said when they ask u always tapped them