trying to figure line for a friend

[PATheron]

This is my next question for you guys that are more knowledgable about this stuff than I am. Ive got a buddy with this setup. He has two sugarbushes that he goes and picks the sap up on his property. Its a pain becouse he has to use a tractor to go get it and we're trying to figure out if we can run his vac pump at the house and run line to the taps. He has a 35 cfm liquid ring pump. Both bushes run down hill pretty good to the sugarhouse so I dont think pitch is a problem. One bush is 700 taps and is 2800' to the bush and the bush itself is 2000' long. So total distance to the pump is 2800' to the start then 2000' of taps. Last year he ran the pump right at that bush and had 2 gallon per tap days so the bush is tubed good. The second bush is 400 taps and is 2000' to that bush. I want to know if the 35 cfm pump will run both well with these distances. I know there are charts for distances but I dont have them. I need to know if that is enough pump and what I need for tube size to get to the bushes. Any help greatly appreciated. Theron

[maplwrks]

Personally, I think he has pump enough. What he may need to do is to put a larger dry line from his releaser to his woods to help carry the vacuum back that distance. I would also install a vacuum tank at the releaser to help with the releaser operation. If for some reason the pump is a little too small, or the vacuum drops too low, the releaser may not operate correctly. Putting this vacuum reservoir in will help ensure of smooth operation of the releaser. Some of you may have seen this, when your releaser "trips" the vacuum may drop a little-- the vacuum tank remedies this.
I know this is a little long winded and a little off track, but my recommendation would be to add dry lines and a vacuum reservoir.

[brookledge]

I think if he went with 1 1/2" dry line from vac pump to each releaser it would be ok. Like maplwrks said it might be benificial to add a vacuum tank at the first one 2800'.
It's going to cost a pretty penny to do so it might be worth it to keep hauling it with the tractor. But I can understand the pain it is to have to haul sap when tubing can do it all for you.
Keith

[peacemaker]

did you say it all pitches toward the sugar house ?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[PATheron]

Governor- That looks like its doable on the 700 tap bush with a large wet dry. How about when you add the 400 taps on the other bush 2000' away. Is he running out of pump when you add that to it or do you think he is ok? Theron

[maplecrest]

theron, i have a bush that is 3000 feet to first tap. 400 taps. the only problem is it is on a single 1 inch line. when frozen lost sap. hope to add a dry line to catch some of that lost early sap. very dooable

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[PATheron]

Talked to my friend again today and he ran another idea by me. Hes thinking that maybe hell put the pump at his sugarhouse and just run a dry to the two remote bushes so at least the pump is at home and he will go pick up the sap. That way he doesnt have to drive clear up on the hill to shut the pump off etc, and also he could swich from gas to electric. Im trying to help him out becouse, and Im not picking on him, hes not getting any younger and he loves to do the syrup. Weve got to try to keep it easy. I need some specifics. Were just going to run dry lines to run the releasers. The bush with 400 taps 2000' away one black line 1.25"? The bush with 700 taps 3800' away is 1.25" to small? Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Theron, are the bushes kinda close together, just a ways from the sugarhouse?? if they are, it mite be cheaper to run the electric for the pump from the sugarhouse to the pump, verses buying that much pipe. This would still give him the capability to turn it on and off at the sugarhouse..

[PATheron]

I know what your saying Andy but the bushes are quite aways apart. Part of the deal is too that hed like to have the pump right at the house where he can keep his eye on it. If it was my bush Id have the sap come to the house but its going to be pretty expensive for him becouse he insists on blue tube for the wet line becouse he sells everything retail and he mostly makes real light syrup. Plus it all is in the open too. Im thinking the dry lines are probly the best idea for him now and just run remote releasers. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[PATheron]

Governor- I can figure things out from your post. Those figures will work for me. It would be easier if it was my stuff but were spending his money and then theres the thing about not warming the sap and everything. Im just trying to help him out. Hes a great guy and Im just trying to make things easier for him if I can. Its hard to describe things on a post with all the figures and everything. Theron

[brookledge]

I can see his point about wanting to use blue mainline with that much distance and being in the open. I can just imagine the temp of the sap after it travels almost a mile in sunlight in black plastic
Keith

[danno]

Hi PA -

I run a wet line from my vacuum about 3000' before I hit my first tap. It was worth running the long line so I can run the vacuum off electric and sap collection is much easier. Now my point - I decided to run just a 1" wet line and see how much vacuum I lost before putting in the dry. I'm glad I did - I don't lose any vaccum, maybe an inch. Therefore, I didn't have to add a dry line. Moral of the story, he may want to just put in the wet and see if he's holding vacuum before adding more pipe.

[danno]

For that many taps, I think he can forgo the dry line. I'd spend the money to bring the sap from both bushes into the same releaser sitting right next to the vacuum pump. He'll love you for it

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[PATheron]

Danno- Id love to see him be able to do it. He works his butt off and if we could put the pump at the shed and run the sap to it I think it would be great. Just have to be sure before he spends all that money. How many taps were you running on yours? Theron

[danno]

PA - if it helps, I was running about 400 taps on that line last year and will run between 500-600 this year. Growing, just not as fast as you:) The main line pitch is pretty good - I'd say between 6 and 8 degrees. I was quite surprised how little vacuum I lost on that 1" main line. The whole tubing system is only about 3 years old and I keep it tight. Not many leaks.