running vac pumps together

[PATheron]

What would happen if I wanted to increase my cfms by plumbing in a dairy pump with my liquid ring. The dairy would not run as high a vac level but would add to the cfms that I would have. Theres no way that my 26 or 27" level of vac would be applied to the dairy pump is there? Has anyone tried this or know what would happen? Theron

[Parker]

I think,,and this is a guess,,,that the liquid ring would pull vacuum through the dairy pump,(mabey stalling the moter-slipping the belts on the dairy pump),,vacuum is going to be sucked from the path of least resestance,,,and if the dairy pump cant macth the levels the ring pump is pulling,,it would be overcome????? I think if you had 2 pumps that were macthed they might be able to work together,,,,,,This is just my guess

[jrthe3]

what if you hooked each one to the releaser seprate and put check valves between pump and realeser

[PATheron]

Jrthe3- Im not sure if that would work or not. Im kind of wondering if what Parker says is true that the higher level would affect the dairy. Theron

[royalmaple]

Three-on. Aren't you at work yet?

My phone hasn't rung so I guess not.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[jrthe3]

ok pa i just ran a test i don't know how this applys but here goes i took two hvac vac pumps a brand new 5 cfm pump and a old 3 cfm pump hook the to a T no check valves (will get some today and try that tonight at work) and pulled a vac on a reefer unit they both where working fine till around 15" the the the old pump stalled out

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[PATheron]

Governor- This is the deal. Im going to be running around 33 or 3400 taps on my 60 cfm and maybe more if I come up with more money. Probly not but you never know. I thought about playing around and adding the dairy to up the cfm level but I didnt know if it could be done. Im going to need a bigger pump before long becouse Im sucking sap from all over the place. How about this? Put the dairy in line with the ring. Have the releaser plumbed to the input of the dairy then plumb the output of the dairy to the ring. What do you say about that? Im just asking becouse inquiring minds want to know. Will that put a bit of stress on the dairy? Theron

[maplecrest]

hey big sap forget the dairy pump. or use it on a seperate releaser. or do what i did get a bigger pump. or keep your system tight and what you have will do the job. i have a 30 lrp on 1800 and unless there is a leak, big vac. last year most of my problems were bad tap holes in big old trees.found those and i was golden for season. take your time and do a good job tapping. tap with vac on if you can, what you have will work with a tight system up to 5000 taps.

[PATheron]

I think your probly right Jeff. I was just wondering if it was possable. I kind of thought it would be problematic anyway I just wondered if anyone had tried it. Theron

[brookledge]

Don't waste your time with a dairy pump with that many taps. Trade in the 60 cfm and upsize to a 100 cfm pump. With all those taps it will pay for itself before you know.
Keith

[PATheron]

Keith- Im taking your advise. My 59 is going on the block. 3600$ for the setup. Can be on its way to Buxton Maine at thanksgiving time. Im going to have to run a little more pump. Talked to my personal vacuum consultant and he recommends his 130cfm model so thats what we're going with. CANNOT comprimise this years BIGSAP with hobby pumps. Theron

[jrthe3]

PA do you have the dairy pump is so i mite be interested in it if you want to sell it

[jrthe3]

got the check valves put them in line between the pumps and T both pumps ran fine all the way down to 29" they both stayed running for 45 min till i shut them down but here the thing with no way to measure the cfms and my exray vision not working yet i do not know if both check valves were open or closed or could of the new bigger pump just sucked the valve on the little old pump shut and new pump did all the work well little pump just sucked vac from pump to check valve or may be it was the other way around i guess the only way to be sure is to find a way to measure cfm



ok here is another thought i talk to the head of maintance at my work he does all the reefer units on our warehouse told him whole story cause reefer work on vacuum also his thoughts where to use check valves and put a regulator on each pump botween pump and check valve set them at the same setting once each pump reached the setting they would both be pulling vac on system he also does not think you could pull vac with one pump threw the other

[PATheron]

Jrthe3- I dont have a dairy right now. I was going to try to pick one up if we thought it would work so I cant help you with the dairy. I wondered about going through one pump like that but I just didnt know. Kind of a neat thing to play around with. There is something you can get to check cfm's becouse I remember guys talking about it but Im not sure where you get one or how expensive it is. Theron

[jrthe3]

PA if you don't tell anyone and i can relate it to work i can get them to buy it i trying to figure out a use for a filter press in my shop so i can brower it during syrup season that was one of my main points when they came to me and asked me to run there shop i don't want to be under thumb about anything i purchase but then i also don't abuse it either

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[PATheron]

Governor- I crunched those numbers too and I agree with you. I think that the 60 is fine for those taps. Theres another part to the equasion though. I think by next year Im going to put another 2000 taps on it. Then your at 5400 with some long distances too boot. Im into a tight system but I have to go to work too and then Ive got to process all that quality product so 1 cfm per 100 is too light for me. So Im figuring on a bigger pump next year anyway so if anyone buys it ill upgrade this year and if I dont itll be fine for the 3400. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[maplecrest]

theron, as i think about the numbers you are thinking about there is one thing you are not putting into you thought process your r/o. if you are going to go to 5400 taps you should be thinking at least a 1800 or three membranes. you are so worked up at cfms that you are not thinking clearly about boiling all this big sap. you also are going to find that you are going to go to oil to boil. you will spend so much time handling wood there will be little time for other things. unless you are going to retire from your job???

[PATheron]

Jeff- This year I am only going to have probly 3400 including the cull trees so the pump isnt really a problem this year. Im only thinking of upgrading the pump becouse of potentially getting the 2000 more taps the season after. As for the membrane I was figuring on upgrading that the season after too and making due with mine for this year. So Your only looking at 2500 honest taps probly with the 900 culls so I think ill be ok this season. If I get too much sap Ill consider it a good problem. Im also figuring on recirculating the sap to as high a concentration as I can. Id like to upgrade the ro but Im broke, just plain broked. Ive sold everything but my body to buy sapline and theres not much left. My 401k is to the point where Im not just down I think they may send me a bill. Give a BIGSAPZAR a break! Im looking up to you seasoned sugarmakers for advise. Ive only got one season under my belt and I kind of look up to you guys up north even if you are genetically defective. Theeeeron

[maplecrest]

as your r/o has one year under its belt, now is the time to trade to a 1200. if you think that one membrane is going to work that hard recir. you are asking alot out of it. that will be working 24/7. r/os are like cars, trade often. after 2 seasons you wont get what you would get now in trade. and do not do what i did and upgade a machine. trade it in.

[PATheron]

I just checked the Dow and I think that bill will be in the mail tomarrow. Wow!Theron

[Parker]

If you aint got nothing,,you got nothing to loose,,,,,,,,,,,:)

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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