Need help with oil fired evaporator

[ennismaple]

With the recent passing of my father this coming maple season will almost certainly be our last as a wood fired operation. My brother and I do not live on the farm so we cannot spend the time to cut the wood required to feed our 5'x16' wood devouring beast. We also don't have the time and energy to spend 16 hours a day boiling.

I need to gather as much information as I can regarding oil fired evaporators and pans. I have no clue what the evaporation rate is for an oil fired arch and what the fuel consumption rate is.

Here's the specs on our operation:

- approx 4000 taps on vacuum, 1000 done "right" and 3000 I'm trying to improve
- plans to add another 1500-2000 taps to the 1000 taps that are done "right"
- 600GPH CDL RO

Any information about what I should look at and what I should definitely not get once I start talking with manufacturers would be helpful. If you had your pick of evaporator and manufacturer what would you get? What is the most economical choice that will do the job?

Thanks.

Martin Ennis

[maplwrks]

Martin,
I'm sure I might ruffle some feathers here but, here is my 2 cents......I would start by expanding your RO to at least a 900 gph machine, a 1200 would be better. With limited time on your hands, you and your brother need a machine that processes a lot of sap quickly. I would consider going to a little higher concentration also, maybe 12-14%. This would cut your boiling time significantly. You would not see a flavor issue at this concentrate.
As for your evaporator, I would drop down to a 3x10 oil fired. You would probably see a 5-5.5 gph oil consumption with a rig this size, with 20 gph syrup production. The brand you buy is a matter of preference--if you like your CDL RO, then stay with a CDL. They also make very good evaporators, you may even do well with a package deal during the spring sale.
My advise would be to make a pilgrimage to St Albans during the Maple Festival and talk to all of the manufacturers and make you decisions based on what they tell you. This happens on the last weekend in April, and is a really great time.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Im with maplwrks wipe the slate clean. with that many taps RO,3x10,oil fired and your running fast and furious. quick starts and quick shut down will save alot on time. With two people running the operation your off and running. With the time it takes to find,cut,haul,split,haul,stack,feed the beast,clean,lower fire rates you could get a part time job and pay for the new upgrades with the time saved. I dont think you will look back and say I wished we stuck with wood.

[brookledge]

I agree you may want to upsize your RO. and down size your evaporator. Alot comes down to just how much time you can devote and then work the numbers backwards to see what's best for you. As for the fuel rate my neighbor has a 3 1/2' X10' and has one burner at 13GPH. So I think a 3X10 would be around 10GPH.
What % are you now running into the 5X16? I'm sure it's no very high or you would have syrup in the flue pan.
A 3X10 will boil around 120 +/-
If you run the RO to 12% that would be a little over 7 to 1 ratio (86/12=7.16)
120/7.16=16.75 gal per hour of syrup while useing about 10 gal of oil.
If you plan on adding taps totalling 5,000-6,000 on vac and you get over a gallon of sap per day you can see why maplworks suggested going to a 1200 GPh machine.
6,000 gallons of raw sap per day is roughly 140 gal of syrup per day.
With 3X10 @12% that would be over 8hrs boiling time with 6,000 taps so if you really plan on getting up to 6K then I'd suggest a 4X12 and a 1200GPH RO
Keith

[sapman]

On my small operation this year, I concentrated probably to about 10% average for the year. My ratio worked out to .7 gallon oil/gallon syrup. Pre RO was about 2-2.4 oil/syrup. I normally burn 6 gph of oil, which is pushing it.

So I'm with everyone else. If burning oil, an RO is the only way to go.

Tim

[Haynes Forest Products]

With my 3X10 with a beckett gun I run 6.5 GPH nozzel and it heats about as well as it can. I was pushing about 140 GPH sap and with some more tweeking I think I can get it up some more.

[WMF]

Haynes,
Is your burner 100 psi or 140 psi ?

[ennismaple]

When you run 2 - 600GPH membranes to get 1200 GPH of RO processing are the membranes in series or in parallel? Anyone have an idea what adding a 600GPH membrane costs?

I'm definitely leaning towards adding another membrane. With the cost of fuel oil it doesn't take long for it to pay for itself.

[maplwrks]

I think on a 1200gph machine the membranes are in parallel, when you add a membrane to a 600gph machine, they are in series. Adding a membrane without upgrading the pressure pump will only get you 900gph. The pressure pump is only good for 900 gph.I expanded my 600 a couple of years ago and it cost me $5600. In hind sight, I should have traded my 600 for a 1200, as I am now looking at trading my 600 for a 1200, probably next year.

[Haynes Forest Products]

WMF
I dont know. My unit is comercial BCF 205 KD1400 What is the differance if you have a nozzel that is a preset GPH

[maplwrks]

Haynes,
At higher pressures, you will use more oil. If I'm correct, a 5.5gph nozzle set at 150 psi actually uses 6.5 gph of fuel

[WMF]

Haynes,
All standard nozzles are rated at 100 psi so at higher pressure they will flow considerably more Gph. Most new flame retention oil burners are at least 140 psi some 175 or higher. There are correction charts available to show what they are actually flowing.

[Haynes Forest Products]

All this make perfect sense to me now. Kind of like my airless paint sprayer. Nozzel=turn it up more paint down less paint same nozzel wide fan some small fan GOT IT...........Now let me ask the crowd this. If I was to install a temp probe into the arch back in the flue pan area and start changing the pressure till im at the max temp for the that nozzel lets saw 3X10 pans 6.5 GPH NO 2 oil should I try the same with 1 up and 1 down in nozzels sizes. Is this a good way to find out max output? Or should I keep an eye on the boil?

[sapman]

I think you should first be sure what your pressure is. And increasing nozzle size may cause smoke, which you don't want. But otherwise, that's what I have done is to go as large a nozzle possible, while not smoking, to achieve max evaporation. I used to have a meter on the inlet, so it was real easy to tell. But my stack temp is around 1000, so I think I must be wasting some heat. Used to be 650 with smaller nozzle, but only boiled around 85gph, opposed to 105 now.

Tim

[Haynes Forest Products]

I had a temp probe in my stack and it was only getting up to about 400 deg. but I have a feeling it could have been off. How good are the temp guages that stick with a magnet to the pipe that they use on wood stoves.
I have a 2 syrup pans 18" long 3ft wide and when I start my burner i have yellowish white flame between the crack in the first pan and then it starts to go to clear as it goes past the crack between the fluepan and middle syrup pan. Then when I hit the High fire setting on the oil gun it goes to white flame but still the flame is only 4 ft long. We have the narrow fan nozzel in in the hope that the flame will reach back into the flue area. The syrup pans boil fine and the first 16" of the fluepan boil and roll just fine but it peaters out as it gets to the back of the fluepan. I have never had my fluepan boil in the last 24-36 "s it steams but no boiling and yet I still run 140GPH sap thru it.

NOW FOR THE BIG FINISH Should I have heat blanket between the pans so I dont get air sucked into the arch between the pans the crack is about 1/8". Is this a problem? Could this cause colder air to push the heat down and away from the flue pan?

[maplwrks]

Haynes---
My evaporator has gaskets between all of the pans, I would think it would be a good idea to put some in between yours. I had a narrow nozzle in my rig at one time, and switched it to a wide spray and saw better boil. The only time I saw a boil all the way to the rear of the flue pans was when I had a 5.5gph nozzle in with 150 psi pushing it. The stack temp then was 1160 degrees, I felt I was sending too much heat up the stack, but man would it boil!!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Maplwrks
I see that we have the same set of pans I have the 3x10. **** I love the way they work and look. I have a little differant valve arangment between the flue and syrup pans. I have a plunger that seperates two and if you forget to open it at startup your wife will call you and ask WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING ALL THE STOPPERS ARE HANGING ON THE WALL BUT SAP WONT CIRCULATE!. The part I had the most fun with is when I went to assemble them without a diagram. I was afraid to call Maple Pro because I thought I got the wrong pans and didnt want to give them back. Made my own arch and hood not as nice as yours. Nothing like walking around the rig with a nice clean damp cloth polishing that baby up checking the levels looking in the door tweaking a valve drinking a cold beer yelling at the kids and dog to stay away from the draw off bucket. **** is spring ever going to come