Sugarbush logging

[forester1]

My long awaited logging job is finally happening. I won't get the tubing hung this year but at least this will be done. I have more pictures on my link below my signature under 2008 logging. They are doing a nice job. The logger uses a timberjack proccessor and a timberjack forwarder, both pieces of equipment well over $300,000 each. His fuel bills are over $35,000 a month for these plus his truck, dozer etc. I though sugaring was an expensive endeavor.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa136/Mindokwin/2008%20%20logging/P9120129.jpg

[sapman]

Jerry,

Very interesting! My uncle in the UP had a contract for years building "Mules" that look similar to the Timberjack, but on a smaller scale. I think Escanaba was one of the outlets. He made one for himself, and it was fun getting wood out with one fall.

Tim

[forester1]

Tim,
There are still a lot of those iron mules around here. Most are owned by part-time loggers or forest owners. Most loggers have bigger, faster equipment now. In this area most logging is cut to length and skid in 100" pieces for pulpwood. Logs are cut random length, mostly still by hand.

[sapman]

Jerry,

I do recall that mule seemed pretty slow, from moving through the woods to loading the rack. But still a lot faster than when my dad did pupwood up there as a teen. The guys he worked for would turn over in their grave if they saw the harvesting these days!

Tim

[Parker]

Jerry- you must be psyked to finaly get that going!! Plenty of time this year to put up 1000 taps,,,and this is a great time of year to be in the woods(once the leaves are gone)
Glad I dont have that iron to pay for=whind up busting your *** for the fuel co.-ins. co.-huge payments,,,,,rat on a treadmill, just praying nothing breaks,,how many hours a week does that crew put in?
Bet they do a real nice looking job though....

[forester1]

I don't exactly know what I'm doing with tubing so I want to go slow, plus I'm still short of firewood. So this fall I will cut a lot of firewood from the tops left from this job and have all summer next year to get the tubing up. I'll keep working until the snow gets too deep and see how far I get. Parker- 4 guys in this crew work 5-6 days a week, starting about 6 am until sometimes until 7 or 8 pm. The owner works Sundays for a couple hours doing the books too. He just had an $18,000 repair bill on the processor. He figures in $4,000 a month for repairs, so he's short this month. Lot's of headaches for sure, but they seem to like it.

[royalmaple]

Jerry that's looking nice. How many acres are they cutting on?

[forester1]

I own 180 acres but they are only doing about 35, basically the sugarbush area. There are problems with my terrain and stream crossings. We may do more in a few years but we need access from another side and a landowner from that way doesn't want the road improved for trucks. The truck access from the east where thay are doing now only permits the front of the truck because of the steep hill road. He can't get the pup (trailer) loaded and back up. So he has to pre-haul all the wood uphill with just the front of the truck. I won't be making a lot of money on this job, but I am getting the sugarbush thinned, and my roads improved. Also a new camp area all stumped.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Glad to hear jerry that the reality of getting the bush thinned is finally happening=they dragged their feet long enough-Or did you find someone else?

[forester1]

Same guy Kevin. He does quality work so I was willing to wait. He told me this was the year back in March. I've known him for 25 years and trust him. Everything is working out. The weather is ideal, not too wet. I'm all pumped about it.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

That's good then if the quality is of high standards then you don't mind waiting a while for the job to happen.. Things were screwed up at work this summer as they always are when we loose an boiler operator/then it's 3 of us running 24/7. But Matt and i are still willing to help out on the tubing installation. Maybe we can get things lined up for next May? June or July would probably be out of the ?.

Definitely we'll keep in closer contact if we going to get a team tegether to install your system at that time?.

Take care,
Kevin

[forester1]

Thanks for the offer Kevin. June or July is too hot and too many mosquitos anyway. I'm retiring in April so I will have lots of time.

[Riverdale]

Going to be doing some logging in one of our nicer bushes this fall. We've lost about 25 trees to shoe string root rot (armillaria mellea) this summer. The worms have hit this stand which made the trees susceptible. Wish we had sprayed now, limited funds etc...what can ya do? Glad we have the portable mill...I need to rebuild a few hay wagons, firewood prices are good but it's still a shame. Quite a few places on the hillsides around here have bare spots, we aren't the only unlucky ones. Hopefully the worm cycle is finished. A local producer didn't spray this year because DEC said the egg mass counts were down and the cycle should be over with. He's not happy with himself for listening to them, his trees were hammered. We've got a few stands with a lot of reds, I think we'll develop them to offset some of the loss.

[markcasper]

Need some advice............long story short. Had our woods marked 1 1/2 years ago for thinning. It was done by a private forester and there was a contract signed. He has unsuccesfully bid out the timber sale 3 times with not a single bidder. The most recent bid opening was on April 20th 2010.

I received a letter 2 days ago about the bad news. Now he added a note that after 3 times he would have to put this to rest and would be sending an invoice for services rendered. (And I'm not talking pocket change, like $2500.00) What the hell am I suppossed to do now??

The contract was very clear is stating that payment to him would be made in certain intervals when the sale is sold.

It also stated in the contract that he would readvertise the sale a 2nd time IF I rejected the bids on the 1st sale, or if I chose not to readvertise, then full payment for services rendered would be due at that time upon receipt of an invoice.

The deal is.....I did not reject any bids, b/c I never got any. And I did not choose to NOT readvertise the sale.

I know it is a very difficult time to sell wood. The current prices in his other sales that did sell had hard maple only averaging $125-150 a thousand, with red oak and ash going between $150 and $250 a thousand.

My question is has anybody else been or is in this situation. I tried contacting my DNR forester who oversees the Managed Forest Law and I got the answering machine with him saying that he is currently laid off. So it seems everybody and everything is in limbo.

[tuckermtn]

Mark- do you have any sense why there were no bids? was there not enough wood marked to make it worth bidding, too rough a ground to operate, equipment type restrictions, etc...not trying to second guess anyone, just looking for more info...

I know demand has picked up in the northeast for sawlogs and hardwood pulp is looking up for the summer. Prices are slowly moving back up. but it supprising to me that there were no bids.

I understand the foresters situation- he/she has put time and supplies into the project- but usually the forester is getting paid when the wood is cut- and its his/her responsibility to try and create a sale that will sell...

not sure what to say...can he/she meet you half way on the bill?

-Eric

[markcasper]

The sale is fair sized I would say, !6,000 feet of sawlogs consisting of 60% red and white oak and the rest is basswood, ash and small amount of maple. There also is 240 cord of hardwood pulp, including birch and 30 cord of aspen on 42 acres.

Our sale appeared to be in the top 30% as far as volume goes in comparison with the rest of the jobs he recently did.

Our woods is hilly, but not impossible. (10 years ago we had 4-6 loggers per year knocking on our door.) The hills mellow out further down and eventually into agricultural fields. There is only one side where the hills do not border crop fields. And the fields are definately available to drop and pull the stuff out into, in the winter or after the crops are off of course.

I am really disappointed regarding this, it is keeping me from reworking and replacing my tubing, as well as adding some more. And now it feels like I am just getting brushed aside with no answer or outlook as what can be done. As I mentioned before, the contract to me seems to say that payment would be made to him upon accepting a bid, NOT after 3 bids and your out.

I also should say that it is enrolled in the WI MFL plan and you are to follow the management plan with the required harvest mandatory. But there again, that even fails to say what to do if noone wants your wood. Should I plan on just cutting all of the marked trees down and let them rot back to fulfill the requirement of the management plan? Plus pay the 2500 dollar bill on top of that?

[wally]

i'm not familiar with the local markets or forestry laws of wisconsin, so this might not be pertinent.

for jobs that i put out to bid that don't receive bids, i take a hard look at what i have marked, access, volume, and operational costs. if those seem "normal", i wait a while for demand to improve (or the prospect for demand to improve) and rebid the job.

if that re-bid fails, i move to a negotiated sale. wisconsin law may preclude that type of sale, so you'd have to ask your forester about it. a negotiated sale involves discussion with a logging contractor whereby the job isn't being bid out, but rather acceptable payment terms are negotiated between the contractor and the seller.

i actually prefer non-bid jobs. fewer headaches. i'd say that about 60% of my sales start out strictly as negotiated sales, rather than as bid jobs. of the bid jobs, i'd estimate fewer than 5% result in no bids.

240 cords would be a fair amount of wood to remove, in addition to the 16,000 board feet of miscellaneous hardwoods. however, the desirability of your project is going to be very closely tied to roundwood markets, unless most of your 16,000 bf is veneer. so, if the prospects for roundwood markets are poor in your area, most contractors are going to be looking for jobs with a higher percentage of logs/veneer products.

wally

[maple flats]

forester1, You say mosquitoes are too bad in the summer. I had the same problem at my woods, until my wife announced we were going to set up a camping site there. That prompted me to do some research. I found a product that works well. It is liquid garlic. I read that a big summit meeting in Toronto tried it for the city because they banned pesticides, and it was a success. I sprayed it 3 times last year by driving my air blast sprayer up and down each logging road in the area near the camper. It lasts effective for 2-4 weeks depending on rain. It is supposed to mess with a mosquitoes ability to find food (people) and they either starve or move. It proved to be very effective. My airblast sprays about 40-60' to the side but that was enough. As for smell, I could smell it very slightly the day of spraying but could no longer smell it the next day, but mosquitoes could not smell my carbon dioxide and we got zero bites until just before I sprayed again. When I got bit the first time I sprayed the next rainfree day. Give it a try. I used to have huge mosquito populations because my woods are surrounded by seasonal wet areas. I bought it online, paid about $65/gal and I didn't use the whole gal in 3 sprays, I have 1 qt left. After that we are going to try to make our own, in a blender, soak in water and then after a day, filter the pulp out. The product I used was called Mosquito Barrier

[maple flats]

I just looked up the product, I bought from Vitacost, this year the price is $71.89+4.99 ship on 1 gal. It is available elsewhere too.

[farmall h]

Markcasper, how many acres are we talking about? 42 acres? I see you have a 420 dozer..why are you not cutting the wood yourself. I fear you may have a lawsuit on your hands. Seems all too sketchy. Here in VT if you are on a forest management plan it is generally "managed" by an independent forester. The plan is set up on a 5 year cut interval (or what is required). There is a management cost incurred by the independent forester which I am sure you have paid, that is if you are on a forest management plan. That being said, the landowner does not have to have the "independent" forester involved in the actual "cut". For example: I logged 45 acres belonging to an elderly person in 2000. She had her forest management plan for 10 years prior. Paid all the fees for the services rendered ie: map, species concentration, wet land locations, deer habitat area, etc. It recommended for her to have a cut. The landowner contacted me and asked if she had to do what was prescribed by the "independent forester" and I said yes. Well, she explained that they were going to get a % of the income generated by the sale of the wood. She didn't feel that was correct since she had paid them thousands of dollars for the plan. Plus, they had their own logger that they introduced her to.
I knew the property quite well and became interested. We are talking about mature white pine & red oak. These trees had never been professionally logged..only firewood had been cut by the landowners. I contacted the county forester and explained the situation. He stated that the landowner is not bound by law to have the "independent" forester act as broker for the cut and that she can have whomever she desires and that he as a State Forester can mark the trees. Long story short, he marked the trees for culling (one day only) and I logged it. Landowner was very pleased with stumpage paid to her. Maybe things are different in your state. She is 89 years young as of last Saturday.:)

[markcasper]

Bob, What do you mean by lawsuit? The hired forester suing me for no payment, or me suing the forester for a breach of contract?

The Wisconsin Managed Forest Law is setup the following way. We enrolled our woods in the program for 25 years. (could have chosen 50)

A DNR forester came to our woods upon our interest, sat down with us and together we drew up a management plan (required) The management plan centered around maple syrup production, as well as timber production, maintaining water quality, soil erosion and wildlife. The DNR forester surveyed our woods and estimated stocking rate and we arranged a 10 year harvest plan to coincide with replacing sap tubing. The woods is to be cut to specified stocking rate in the year or close to the year specified, with the main objective of managing for maple production. That being 2008. If you are actively involved in this process, then you are ok even if its a little late.

In return, we only pay something like $1.80 per acre/year property tax. When the timber is sold, the DNR receives 5% of the stumpage gross. The land has to be open to the public for hunting in our program. At the time we enrolled there was no charge for the DNR forester to set up our plan.

The management objectives in the plan and those resulting activities are mandatory. One of the requirements in harvesting was to have the woods marked by a person approved by the DNR. The hiring of a private forester to mark and market the wood was encouraged. Here is where common sense seems lacking. There was nothing in the DNR plan saying what to do if the wood was not able to attract a sale i.e. no market for any of the wood. We are indeed in difficult times!

The DNR forester that oversees our plan had to come out to our woods and make sure that the woods was marked in accordance with the Northern Hardwood Marking Guide as found in the DNR's Silvicultural and Forest Aesthetics Handbook. He passed it, and said that the marking job complied.

The reason I cannot log the woods is lack of time....BIGTIME. And I don't know anything about how to cut up the logs to what the market wants.

As far as lawsuit, I will quote the following word for word with what was in the contract we signed with the private forester we hired:

Fee Schedule:
* Retainer Fee (due at time of Contract signing)-10% of Sale Establishment Fee= $210.00
* 10% of the Establishment Fee ($210.00) plus the Advertising Fee ($50) is due when the sale is SOLD, and property owners receive signed contract and down-payment on Lump Sum amount from Purchaser.
* 10% of the Establishment Fee ($210.00) is due when the TOTAL Lump Sum amount is received by owners.
* The balance of the Sale Establishment Fee ($1470.00) plus the Sale Administration Fee ($420.00) and Mileage Surcharge is due when all terms of the timber sale contract have been met, to the full satisfaction of the Property Owners and ******** Forestry LLC, and ******** Forestry submits an Invoice for Balance Due.

* The Property Owners shall select the winning bid at bid opening, or reject all bids, as they see fit. If all bids are rejected, the sale will be re-advertised for the next bid opening.

* If the Propert Owners decide not to re-advertise, or to reject all bids at the second bid-opening, ******** Forestry will be compensated by the Property Owners for all unpaid Sale Establishment work done, plus the Advertising Fee and Mileage Surcharge, upon receipt of an Invoice from ******** ForestryLLC for Net Amount Due for Services Rendered (less the Retainer Fee). This sum then becomes due and payable within 30 days.

Proposed Time Table:
* Sale establishment work will be scheduled following receipt, by ******* Forestry, of a signed copy of this document, and Retainer Fee.
* Fieldwork will be scheduled for fall 2008; Sale will be advertised for bids in late fall 2008, with harvest expected to occur either in fall/winter 2008-09 or fall-winter 2009-10

The dated signatures below signify acceptance of these terms by all parties, as a binding contract.

And that is it,,,,,,,,welcome your thoughts on this.

[wally]

mark,

looks as if the contract has a "deficiency", in that it didn't include the scenario you find yourself in, ie, no bids received.

the high percentage of roundwood may be playing a role in that, especially for a lump-sum sale (as opposed to a pay-as-cut sale).

realistically, i'd continue dialog with the forester, pointing out the deficiency in the contract for the situation, but also looking for other potential solutions to getting the job completed.

i'd have a hard time billing you for a job that wasn't completed, even with the difficult markets, especially where you haven't done anything to oppose the sale or bids, but that's me.

wally

[wally]

Well, she explained that they were going to get a % of the income generated by the sale of the wood. She didn't feel that was correct since she had paid them thousands of dollars for the plan.
.
.
.
that he as a State Forester can mark the trees. Long story short, he marked the trees for culling (one day only) and I logged it. Landowner was very pleased with stumpage paid to her.

yet with the plan provided to her, she was unable to mark her wood herself, and had to use the services of the state/extension forester for that task. the plan is merely a guidance document that lists landowner objectives, and includes silvicultural recommendations specific to the landowner's property.

the percentage fee that the independent/consulting forester charges is for applying the recommendations in the plan on the ground, through the marking of the appropriate trees and groups of trees, along with skid trail layout, and other facets of a typical timber sale. many logging contractors are perfectly capable of accomplishing much of those tasks on their own.

the state of nh no longer allows state/extension foresters to write management plans or mark timber for private landowners under the auspices of the state program, because it has a forestry licensing program. the state/extension foresters are paid a salary via tax dollars rather than via percentage of gross stumpage or other method of reimbursement.

wally

[markcasper]

Wally,

Thanks for reviewing my post. I truly wish to get through this with out anybody's shoes getting stomped. I was overall very pleased with how he marked the woods and thought real highly of him until recently. My attitude is you will get your money when we get ours, per the way the contract reads.

He did do a 3rd bid opening on his own, as well as direct offers to selected buyers. I do think he has tried extra hard to get our sale sold, but one must still follow what the contract states.

Before he did the 3rd bid offering, we received a letter from him asking for a portion (10%) in order to advertise the sale. I never contacted him at that time b/c 1.)The DNR forester told me not to do anything until the fall (2009)

and 2) there was nothing mentioned in the contract about paying 10% to re-advertise a bid. The hired forester bid it out any way, even without a payment or correspondence.

And now I am at this bridge.

I am thinking maybe he is hard-up, as I researched and found his business name and classified ads for his services in newspapers way the heck over by Green Bay, as well as ads in papers way the heck up near the U.P. of Michigan. That to me seems bizarre! And I am reading between the lines again.

I wish I could do it myself, but with working full-time, the syrup business, helping on my dads farm, plus family, I have NO time.

[markcasper]

mark,


the high percentage of roundwood may be playing a role in that, especially for a lump-sum sale (as opposed to a pay-as-cut sale).


wally

Actually, the 240 cord of pulp and 30 cord of aspen pulp is to be sold mill-scale.

The amounts mentioned were an estimate, the total for the pulp payment is to be due within 21 days of it going to the mill.

[wally]

mark,

for sure, stick to the contract language. the forester did the 3rd bid without your consent/knowledge/approval, so that's on him.

the contract could be altered by attaching an amendment to it, signed by all parties, referencing the original contract and spelling out any new/different clauses relative to the sale or type of sale.

also, if the DNR official said wait, i'd have waited, too (as you did).

the roundwood seems to be a non-issue, if it's based on mill-tally. seems odd. you'd think there must be some contractor out there that could use some work, even if it isn't a huge job.

wally

[markcasper]

mark,

the roundwood seems to be a non-issue, if it's based on mill-tally. seems odd. you'd think there must be some contractor out there that could use some work, even if it isn't a huge job.

wally
There are some looking for work, but they are all "door-knockers" that want to hi-grade, and certainly don't want anything to do with the MFL or a DNR based sale.

Someone mentioned that prices were lifting in the Northeast, would you be able to explain where the demand is coming from to do that? There certainly isn't twat for construction going on in my area.

[tuckermtn]

Mark- I was the one who mentioned the uptick in prices in the Northeast-
I do a quarterly survey of stumpage and delivered prices for my job with the NH Timberland Owners Association.

chatter is that hardwood demand is increasing- I've spoken to several loggers who are expecting hardwood pulp demand to increase this summer- several paper mills in Maine are reporting low inventories of pulpwood so I think that is where the demand increase is going to come from.

Two softwood mills in northern NH are sawing full time- one of them for the first time in 14 months. Demand seems to be slowly picking up in the home building sector- new home sales were up quite a bit last quarter.

On a micro level, we have had 3 new building permits in our town of 2000 people. Last year we had 1 new house permit.

just my .02 worth..

[markcasper]

eric, that is encouraging news! Hope it continues.

On last thing for me to vent about and will stop. Also included in the last bid results letter was a note:

"Sorry we couldn't drum up a bid for you in 3 times.
As we discussed, I must conclude my efforts to assist you at this time.
You will need to be creative in finding someone to cut your sale.
I suggest you work with ********, your DNR Forester to see if he has any ideas.
I will be sending you a Final Invoice for services rendered.
Good Luck with your project."

*********

I am wondering about the "We discussed" part, I have not talked to him since the first bid opening in December 2008. Could there be some confusion with another client?

[wally]

i don't think there's any confusion.

however, based on the contract, it doesn't seem obvious that you owe him anything beyond what you've already paid. you haven't rejected any bids. his job is to solicit the bids, and find a contractor. i'd at least explore my options re: legal ramifications. the deficiency may be enough in a court to help you.


one other thought: do you have the invitee list of bidders? if you do, it might not hurt to contact them directly to learn why they weren't interested in even submitting a bid.

[maple flats]

This sounds like your plan is WAY more complicated than mine. My plan was written by a NYS forester, paid by my taxes. I have NO obligation to do anything except that if I don't proceed somewhat in the direction the plan describes I can not qualify for Tree Farm status. I have no contract, no ties whatsoever with the forester after the plan was accepted by me. When the plan was in progress I was given rough drafts and twice I asked it be altered to more closely fit MY objectives. The final plan is MY plan with no one following or monitoring what I do. If I want tree farm status I need to call a MFO volunteer (master forest owner), A Cornell trained volunteer, who will walk my woods to confirm that I am implementing my plan for at least 3 years. I am not required to complete each year or keep up with the plan details but must be "proceeding". If Tree Farm status is not desired I will have no one oversee any progress. I was taught how to mark trees in a 30 minute lesson by the forester who wrote the plan (I also have a few classes and seminars under my belt too).
In the years I have seen my MFO volunteer (he u-picks at my blueberry operation) and I have told him I am behind but he indicated that I only need to show direction towards the goal. I have yet to call him in to walk the woods again (He is the one who walked my woods before the forester and he connected me with the FREE forester. As anything is harvested I need not show anyone what I got (except the IRS of course) and there were no fees nor will there be any fees (except my taxes)

[Rhino]

Mark, One place you might want to try is PCA (packageing Corp. of America). They are in Tomahawk. My uncle had them do his 120 acres this winter. His is also in MFL. They paid him $25.00 a cord for pulpwood stumpage and went 50% on the saw logs, but here was the real benefit. They marked the whole 120 acres, they brought in their backhoe/dozer and put all the road systems in with culverts and these roads are nice. also cleared food plot areas for him. I would hate to think how many hours those 2 machines spent out there. With your woods obviously you wouldn't need the benefit of the machice hours or the marking of the trees so your stumpage rate would be higher. It would be higher to start with for the truckers because of the distance from the mill. They get wood from all over, even by railroad. Their foresters could give you ideas if they wouldn't be interested in it. Hard to believe your county dnr forester didn't give you a list of loggers who are looking for jobs. We have one woods in Price county that has a 15 acre wet area with popple and black ash and the list we got from our forester had 20 loggers on it. To wet for us to do. The 120 acres was to big for us to finish by ourselves so we just picked an area out and worked in there and stayed away from the PCA logging crew. I am just wondering how the guy who marked your woods is going to charge you? They can be expensive, almost like they are a 3rd partner after the wood comes off. I always say, you only get one kick at the cat when it comes to haveing someone harvest your woodlands. The number for the paper mill is 715-453-2131, ask for Dean or Don in the forestry dept. Hope something works out for you that you will be satisfied with the end result.....Ryan

[Rhino]

Just to clarify with the statement about the guy who marks the trees would be a 3rd partner..... When we log ourselves, we always look at the trucker who hauls our wood as a 2nd partner because he is takeing a peice of the pie, throw in another person takeing pie pieces (tree marker) and you got a number 3 partner. We have been lucky so far to have our county DNR forester do the marking in our sugar bushes so we didn't have to pay.

[markcasper]

maple flats....The Wis. program is basically set up to save you BIG MONEY on real estate taxs. It would not be for people that are owning it to make a quick buck. In return, you must follow thinning and crop tree selections that practice sound forest management. There also are requirements of no pasturing of livestock and the land can not be converted to other uses for as long as it is in the program. You can withdraw with a penalty.

Rhino....The information you gave is good to know. I'm a little confused with you mentioning the DNR will mark the trees for free. Not to my knowledge, they quit doing that years ago. I do know that we didn't have to hire a private forester, but I thought it was in my best interest b/c of the sugarbush. Like you say......you only get one shot. I know that whether it an industrial forester, or private forester, they had to be on the DNR's list. You could do it yourself I guess, but it would have to be inspected by the county forester prior to moving along with things.

I guess the reason I have not heard from the county forester is because he is currently laid off. He is laid off til May 10. I will hold on til then and contact him.

Our forester charged $50 an acre, not as a percentage of sales.

[BarrelBoiler]

i really hate to say this a legal opinion is needed in this
IMHO!!! anything in the contract listed to be paid before and not contingent on the awarding of the bid or sale of the wood shoould be paid

anything to be paid contingent on the awarding of the bid or sale of the wood (which hasn't happened) should not paid as it was a risk the forestery company took on itself

another reason to get a legal opinion is: if you arrange a harvest through another enity you may still be required to paid the first forestery company even though they weren't envolved with the harvest except to start the process because of the contract you have with them

iam NOT a lawyer best bet go talk with one

[wally]

They paid him $25.00 a cord for pulpwood stumpage

dang. that's pretty much the delivered price out here. :cry:

[Rhino]

Wally, That is unreal that you guys out there only get $25.00/for your wood. Is there only one mill that there is so much supply in your area? Last winter we were getting $60.00/cord for hardwood pulp on the landing, so the mill must of been paying the trucker around $76-$80/cord delivered. Mark, Your right about the state foresters not marking anymore. The last 40 they marked for us was about 5 years ago. They now also hand a sheet with the names of foresters who mark trees along with the list of loggers. We were lucky enough last fall that our state forester marked that 15 acres of wet area. He had time and said he would do it.

[markcasper]

Rhino, Holy cow !! $60 a cord for hardwood pulp? That is almost unbelievable.

I am looking at last weeks bid sheet right now and the highest for hardwood pulp was $27.50/cord and that was bid by New Page Corp. I have never heard of them, anyone know where they are based out of? I also might add that was one of the biggest sales in terms of volume. $44,700 total

Aspen on that bid brought $32 a cord.

Alot of pulp was bid in the $10-$20/ cord range.

I guess it looks to me the further south you were, the lower the mills were bidding, and in my case, nothing.

[Rhino]

Sorry Mark, I should of clarified, that was the price what we were getting from the wood we were cutting. Our trucker usually takes around $16-$18 dollars a cord to haul to the Tomahawk mill. I'ts around 18 miles away. Takes more if he trucks it to new page in Wis. Rapids. Saw logs he charges more also. We also had a logger go in a 44 acre parcel we own near Prentice Wis. this winter, and he gave us $30.00 a cord for hardwood pulp. I know if your woods was closer to the Lincoln/Price county area, your phone would be ringing of the hook with loggers looking for wood. We only cut in winter so I don't know how the wood market in our area is now? I would think if someone offered you around that $30.00 a cord for the hardwood pulp that would be in the ballpark. Anything alot more then that you would have to be skeptical about them skimming a few loads out without your knowledge, sad thing to say but it does happen. Nice that you live there that you can keep a watchful eye.

[Rhino]

Mark, Thought of another idea, A buddy of mine did his woods this way..... He cut the trees and cut them to length and hired a guy to come in with a forwarder to pick up and deck the wood. I forget what the owner of the forwarder charged but if you have the time and know a person with a forwarder thats close, it might be something to look into? You might get into the $40.00 a cord bracket, if he takes around $20 a cord to do the forwarding.