Protective pad for my arch to sit on?

[Clan Delaney]

I've figured out my setbacks, I've found my property line, I've marked out the area where I can build my new, permanent sugar shack. Pouring a full slab floor is completely out of the question, so I'm looking at a wooden floor (deck style). You can already see my problem... I can't set up an arch, homemade or professional, directly on a wooden floor. Unless I want to stop referring to this new shack as "permanent".:rolleyes:

I'm likely going to be using a homemade barrel stove evaporator this season, so it would be raised up on legs and not in direct contact with the floor. Still, I'd like to build a set-up that allows me to upgrade when I'm ready. What I had in mind was to frame out a rectangular area on the floor with 2X4s and pour a slab right onto the deck floor. I have salvaged 12" ceramic tiles that I would use to cover the slab.

The hope is that 3.5" of concrete would protect the floor from the constant radiant heat from the arch. The tiles would help protect the slab itself from heat spalling.

Has anyone else had to deal with anything like this? Do you think I'm taking adequate precautions? What would you do differently?

[Grade "A"]

We got a mixer and hand poured a 4" slab 10'x10' for our arch. It sounds like you may want to put some fire brick in you arch so you wont lose all your heat out the sides and bottom. I don't think that you should be losing enough heat out the bottom of your arch to pop the concrete. I would work on trying to keep more heat inside your arch if you can.

[Clan Delaney]

We got a mixer and hand poured a 4" slab 10'x10' for our arch. It sounds like you may want to put some fire brick in you arch so you wont lose all your heat out the sides and bottom. I don't think that you should be losing enough heat out the bottom of your arch to pop the concrete. I would work on trying to keep more heat inside your arch if you can.

Fire bricks were part of the plan. Well, for the time being that plan is for regular red brick, but it's better than nothing. Did you pour that slab on the ground, or on a wood floor like I'm looking at?

[Dennis H.]

I haven't ran the evap on it yet but what you are talking about is exactly what I did, now I didn't pour it 4" thick.

What I did was take cement backer board, the kind that you would use in a bathroom under tile, and I covered the entire floor with it. The area that I have for the sugarshack is 10x12'. Then I got some self leveling underlayment cement and poured a skim coat over the cement backer board. It came out close to looking like a cement poured floor. The self leveling stuff that I used says that you can pour it up to 1" thick, I only went with about 1/8".

I wish I could tell how well it stands the heat but since I haven't rebricked the evap yet I haven't been able to give it a test boil yet.

[WF MASON]

If you look in the stove shops at the hearths they sell that are pretty and big money, they are an 2"x2" angle iron frame with 1/2" plywood dropped in it and screwed from the bottom. Then they pour 1 1/2'' of create into it. drop some thin slate pieces in it for the pretty. I made mine 4'x5' and poured it in place on the living room floor carpet. Its been nine years and hasn't cracked. Cost about $50. bucks.About $600. at the stove shop. I'd think you could do the same thing on a wooden floor and it'd work just as well.Any size you'd need.

[Grade "A"]

We poured our on the ground. Dennis H. & WF MASON have a good point, if you beef up the wood floor enough to hold the arch then you can pour a thin slab so you wont have to worry about sparks falling through cracks in the wood.

[brookledge]

Clan
If you are building a new sugar house why do you need to put in a wood floor? You could just leave it gravel until you can pour concrete. I know many that have gravel floors or crushed stone and have been that way for years. The thing to remember is that the floor tends to always be wet from either condensation dripping, spilled sap, or water from washing down. That is why many install floor drains. If you do leave the floor unfinished all you need to do is pour sonotubes for your evaporator to set on.
Keith

[Haynes Forest Products]

I think that we went over the (sono tube) problem in a thread about concrete floors. Anyone that puts 4 feet of sono tube in the ground is wasting both time and money and will not achieve what they are trying to do. If you dug a hole 4 ft down 12" in diameter and put a 10" sono tube in the hole back filled the tube and filled it with concrete you would have been better off putting a 12X12 inch paving stone under each leg!

[Clan Delaney]

Clan
If you are building a new sugar house why do you need to put in a wood floor? You could just leave it gravel until you can pour concrete. I know many that have gravel floors or crushed stone and have been that way for years. The thing to remember is that the floor tends to always be wet from either condensation dripping, spilled sap, or water from washing down. That is why many install floor drains. If you do leave the floor unfinished all you need to do is pour sonotubes for your evaporator to set on.
Keith

Ah! Good question. I only have one place in the yard where I can build, and it is not flat. And there's a drainage stream that runs through the whole thing. Instead of forcing the space to fit my needs, I'm going to work with it. Plant 4 corner posts, pole barn style, and build a deck on it. The deck would be the floor of the shack. It solves the problem of the uneven ground, and the stream is going to flow underneath the whole thing. The spaces between deck boards should provide adequate drainage.

The attached pics give an idea of the area I'm working with.

[maple flats]

I had a wood floor for 3 years. What i did was after the wood floor was down I laid a platform of 10" concrete block (10" for height), then I made a 20 gauge tin hearth the was laid on top, with a 1" lip down around the edges to keep it in position. The blocks were placed on their sides which gave good ventilation under the arch. I had this only under the firebox and about 30" in front of the doors with about 6" on each side. The set up worked good but I did not dare set up my draft blower until I could pour the entire floor because of potential spark issues. I have now gone to all concrete. If you do go with the wood floor make sure you have enough support under the evap to keep it level and design a way to re level as needed. I found this critical, and needed to re level a few times during each season as the frost came out of the ground. My evap now has a footing that is down over 4' and the concrete floor is free to float independently of the arch footer.

[Clan Delaney]

I think that we went over the (sono tube) problem in a thread about concrete floors. Anyone that puts 4 feet of sono tube in the ground is wasting both time and money and will not achieve what they are trying to do. If you dug a hole 4 ft down 12" in diameter and put a 10" sono tube in the hole back filled the tube and filled it with concrete you would have been better off putting a 12X12 inch paving stone under each leg!

I think I read that thread. Normally, I'd love to over-engineer, but not in this case. We've got pole barns here in New England that are 100 years old or more that were built as you describe, without concrete footings. Besides, we've got something they never did - pressure treated lumber.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Several of the members on her have wood floors under their evaporators. You could use a sheet of steel under the evaporator and put a layer or two of ceramic blanket under it and it should be fine. If you keep an inch or two of ash in it at all times, it will help insulate it also. I have an inferno arch without a floor and I have a 24' x 48' solid slab concrete floor in my sugarhouse and I have a layer of 1" ceramic blanket underneath the evaporator which seals the bottom off good and it protects the floor from any heat. I get very few coals or ash on down there anways. I probably vaccum up a gallon or two tops with the shop vac a couple of weeks ago from boiling nearly 5,000 gallon of sap with a 2x8 last season. They also make an insulating board that should work good and may be a touch more stable under the evaporator.

[brookledge]

Clan
I see from the pics. Looks like you will have good air movement to dry out the floor as it gets wet so it won't rot. Still may want to consider pt plywood.
Keith

[Clan Delaney]

Clan
I see from the pics. Looks like you will have good air movement to dry out the floor as it gets wet so it won't rot. Still may want to consider pt plywood.
Keith

I started a new thread here (http://www.mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=4765) to document the progress of the actual shack.

Keith, if I was buying new materials, I'd probably go with the PT plywood. As it would happen, I have the remains of an (only!?) 10 year old PT deck I helped my father disassemble earlier this summer. That's my floor right there. Plus some clapboards.

[Haynes Forest Products]

The easy and cheap way to go for fire blocking is use HARDI tile backer it comes in 1/4 or 1/2 and its 3X5 ft and it wont shrink rot or curl up and its about 11.00 a sheet at Home Depot and it will last along time screw it down and your all set

[HHM-07]

Clan
You are doing OK This can become a shoot from the hip project. I have a 2x4 rig set on a wood floor i but down a strip of flashing for spark protection the set my rig on cement blocks, you will want your rig raised for comfort when you boil anyway so this works good for me no prolbems. Think simple with your project it will all come together.

Good Luck Dick

[Haynes Forest Products]

HHM-07
I like the pans I have a set of english pans just like them in the storage shed 2x6. Its a strange set up it has a drop flue then syrup pan and then semi drop flue. The sap passes thru the drop flue into one side of the syrup pan then to the semi drop and then back to the center syrup pan. Hey is that a food grade garbage can LOL I like the set up