September journal

[brookledge]

Well I just got home late today from my last camping trip of the year(I think) and see that nobody has started a Sept. journal. I'm looking forward to the cooler weather so I can really focus on cutting more wood. I know the days are getting alot shorter so the pressure is on.
Keith

[PATheron]

Just got back home from working up to Matts house on operation devistation. Never saw so many trees in my life. Maine woods is some different than Pennsylvania woods. Ive been cutting the junk in my woods for years and really like doing it. Ive got mine so I ride around with the four wheeler and chainsaw actually get irritated becouse I cant find anything to cut down anymore so I jumped at the chance to drop a few trees up to Matts. Holy Cow! Cut solid on 10 acres for 2 and a half days and only made it through half of it. Had a lot of fun but was pretty happy to come back out of the wilderness to a civilized area again. Matts going to have one heck of a nice sugarbush right behind his house. Releasing the trees is the single best thing I think a guy can do. I had sugarmaple in a young stand that were 3" trees I cut down that were 25 years old. You put that same tree in the open and itll grow an honest half inch a year and I think the reds will do an inch. Fun to watch them grow. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Glad to hear you made it out alive Theron.. I saw a news flash for the evacuation of Buxton Sat am they said there was a unexplained hurricane look along the Saco River and didn't want to take any chances.. Did Matt make it out as well??

[PATheron]

I think so. He's got to get some pics for you guys. It literally looks like an ocean of trees laying on the ground. I honestly thought we could cut it all out no prob but theres just a ton of trees. The other thing is we did very little damage to the maple trees and to do it that way it takes a bit of time. I liked timbering the pine trees the best. They grow darn good pine trees there. Theron

[Maplewalnut]

Had a good pre-season maple weekend. Picked up a spotless 600 gallon milk tank from up near Binghamton, NY for.... are you ready..... $230.... Sweet! Great guy who was going to scrap it since it sat in his barn for the last few years but was looking for someone to actually use it.
Made up some more drop lines, picked up some more mainline and wire and set the old bulk tank back in woods at the mainline end. All the wire is up and will start attaching mainline this week.

Cut, stacked and split about 2 cord of mixed wood and pallets.

Officially ran out of syrup, looking to purchase some now to keep retail customers happy until next year.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I added some pics of my orchard on photobucket, if anyone is interested..

[Dennis H.]

I didn't notice that it is now Sept, boy is the year just flying by. Anyway I posted my sugarshack updates in August's journal so I thought I would repost it here in Sept.

I got some more done on the sugarshack this past week.
I got the flue put in and hooked up to the evap, looks cool!
I put in a couple of shelves in the corners, one to hold a container that I will use to feed sap into the pan, and the other shelf for a nice place to set things that I may need to set down.
The floor turned out ok, it is hard to make a skim coat look really good.
I also got the rope rigged up so I can open and shut the doors on the cupola, well shut the doors anyway. I have a lenght of pvc pipe to nudge the doors open and then I just pull on the ropes to shut them.

I have to rebrick the evap now that in is it's new home and man do I need to give it a new coat of high-temp paint.

I also have to clean up the kitchen area now that all the construction is done.

[3% Solution]

Hey Dennis,
Like I said, lookin' goooooooodd.

Dave

[tuckermtn]

Back in NH with maple on the brain in a big way- hired three local boys and got 6 cords of Parker wood stacked- then had the outside row fall b/c it wasn't quite vertical...

talked to three different landowners who have some nice roadside trees...probably 20-25 more taps all together.

Got to get on the bucket re-hab work...I think I'll try some more of the bucket epoxy as it seems to hold up better than the spray galvanizer. If I had unlimited time and $$ it would be interesting to see if you could sandblast the crap off, epoxy the seams, then re-dip...but alas, if history is any indication, it'll be slapped together in Feburary.

-5 months till tapping...

[3% Solution]

Hey TuckerMtn,
Welcome back!!!!
Yup 5 months to go!!
Been doing some maple stuff here when it's not hot!

Dave

[mapleman3]

Got back from my last vacation camping last night, spent the weekend at Syrupmaker's Ya'll come... Had a blast, Mapleking spent a lot of time (more than usual) he always seems to "sneak out" at some point but he stayed pretty late past 2am Sun night.

I guess now that fall is almost here it's time to get my head screwed on right and aim it towards maple! so much to do and so little time. I'm still going thru physical therapy, back still gets sore too easy! oh well getting old I guess

[royalmaple]

Theron and I really gave the brush out back some pay back.

Why would anyone drive 100's of miles to cut wood for days on end? Must be a good friend I guess.

It was like exploring the new world for the first time. We actually found nice maples that I had never seen before. It is a far cry from complete now. Looks like a controlled hurricane came through. Sparing the maples but dropping everything else to the ground. It is going to look like a park in there when I am done. Can't wait.

I dont' think the pictures will do it justice. You are consistantly standing in chest deep trees on the ground.

It is fair to say that the maples have been released and they should be getting some sun from now on.

[jrthe3]

well got almost all the tubing fix and put back up don't think i going to be able to finsh all the vacuum lines and hook up i wanted to but i will have half on vac for 09 now have to put sugaring on the back burner for the next five mouths to work the big over time to fund this sugar season so will be spending time ("well at work") on her to read about all everyone been doing to feed my adiction

[PATheron]

Dennis- Darn nice sugar house. Your going to have a blast boiling in there. No rain, snow, etc. Did you ever find a spot where there were some together where you could gather them all in one spot? Now weve got to get you a neat little tubing system even if its just a few taps. Maybe find you a little dairy pump. Homemade releaser. Then youll have to figure out how to make a little homeade ro and your set. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Come on Theron! You know with this addiction, none of us are ever "set"

[PATheron]

Doug- I know what you mean. Im just being optomistic for Dennis's sake. Maybe he's the one with all the will power. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

if someone has will power against sugering, they would not be on this site in september!!!

[PATheron]

Your right Andy. Those of us on here now are pretty much the ones that are totally nuts about it. I want to get out there and give her heck but looks like Ive got to work for pretty mommy this week then Im hoping next week to finish up the young stand and do some finetuning. Buying valves left and right. Bought enough today to put valves at the ends of all the mains for cleaning. Also got some the other day for each main to isolate. I think Id like to mount a gage at the ends of all the mains but Ive got to figure out a way to get some decently priced gages. That or I may find a way to just stick one on as I go by them. Gotta quit spending money on this stuff. Just looks so nice in the woods. One thing about it high vac = BIGSAP and BIGMONEY! I like that $1,000 a barrell thing. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Come on Theron You aren't ever going to quit spending money on sugaring. Just like all of the rest of us you will always find something that you will have to buy.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

The best part is the bigger the operation, the more money you spend.. If we where smart we would all stay with 20 taps and a back yard rig. bottom line at the end of the year would be the same, and alot less headaichs..

[PATheron]

Your probly right Russ. I think this stuff is worse than drugs. Its funny if your not into sugaring you dont understand at all. The guys at work just shake their heads. Its just a lot of fun. I think its like treasure hunting too. You go to work and you study the weather and all the time your wondering how much sap your going to get. Then after that its all about getting more of it.
Better than sitting in the bars everynight. Be honest though I think drinking is a cheaper hobby. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Theron I have yet to find a stand of maples that would benifit from a tubing setup, the slopes are all down and away from the road and they are spread out enough that there would be long runs of tubing with not many taps. The property that I have access to I know I could find 200 trees to tap.

I think right now I will stay with my plans of only adding about 100 taps, well ok maybe 150, well maybe a few more, oh heck I will try and tap every dang tree I can afford to tap!:rolleyes:

I just got my tank to put in the sap hauler, I picked up a 35 gal tank from Tractor Supply. I also have a 12vdc RV pump that I am going to hook up to a 5 gal bucket that I can set on the ground and pour the sap into and the pump will then put it into the tank. I will post pics of it when I get it done.

Heraring Theron up in Maine being a lumberjack got me itching to cut a few trees. It is actually relaxing cutting trees. I was out in the backwoods today cutting out pines, man do I hate pine trees. They aren't useful for much. Luckily they are all small, anywhere from 2-8". I also got some of those pesky Birch trees too.

[PATheron]

Dennis- Whats your GPH on that fine rig? You might be pretty busy on a couple hundred taps which is good itll keep you out of trouble. Theron

[Parker]

Theron- Granigers has gauges that are not too expensive,,,having a gauge above the valve on your lateral mainline is the singel most effective tool we have found for isolating and eleminating vacuum leaks,,,last year once we had the system tight we maintained 23" at the last tap on the big bushes

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I have been installing 1/4" npt to 1/4" flare in my lateral mains. They are capped with a flare cap with o ring, my vacuum guage is made up with a 1/4" female flare. spin the cap off and guage on check vacuum and then move on. I had trouble with the cheap guages out in the elements after a year or two..

[royalmaple]

Dennis-

If you want all the relaxation you could ever want. You let me know. I got just the spot out back that you will be like butter.

[PATheron]

Andy- That sounds like a pretty good idea. Im kind of thinking about doing something like that instead of a fixed gage. Parker- I know that Scott Wheeler likes to put the gages at the ends of the mains but Im leaning towards what your saying. Main reason is I can check them right near the sugarhouse that way by putting them on the main and close the valve and see if the level falls. One way or another these levels need to stay HIGH. We need 27" at all times. Not 26.75", 27". Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
What happens when you start to see root tips coming into the releaser?

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

ok guys here's my newest million dollar idea: I am thinking of building all by boosters out of clear pvc ( http://www.clearpvcpipe.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=19 ) so I can watch the sap flows on them, not sure what the benefit would be but it sure would look cool

[Jeff E]

Hey men!
The temps went from high 80's on Tuesday to 44 on Wed. morning...that gets a guy thinking!!!

The Release cut is well underway on 30 acres, and have sold 80 cord so far, pulp, saw logs and firewood. I have to add it is exciting for me to see those maples get some room around them, and a clear shot to the sky. I cant wait to see them in 8 years.
Still working on tubing on the first 20 acres, and when the cutting is done, I will start on the other 20.

Been mountain biking quite a bit the last month, getting ready for a week in Colorado riding my brains out. Shaping up for a busy fall to be ready by Feb.

On the sugar house, the slab is down, with 3 courses of block, floor drains in. Should also start the walls next week. I am hiring out this work.

[Parker]

I like to have the valves and gauges at the booster end (which is where the lateral mainline leaves the conductor line) That way as I am walking up my conductor line from the releaser into the sugarwoods I can turn of the valve on the lateral mainline look at the gauge and know in 30 seconds if I have a problem on that line. This saves me from walking the entire lateral mainline (which might be 800 feet long up ground steeper than the side of your head). Scott has spilled more syrup than Ill ever make,,,,but this is what works very well for me from all the diffrent set ups I have tried,,,,,,,,

[Dennis H.]

Clear PVC is sure $$$$$$$$!

Theron the evap rate is really bad, now don't laugh, about 8 gals/hr.
I figure that the way this past year went I could handle 150 taps. Now it could have been a bad year down here I don't know being this was my 1st yr.

I figure, now this is an evil plan, that if I have so much sap coming that I can't boil it all down and have to dump some to keep up it will give me a reason to buy that nice new evap for the following yr. I just am not sure if the wife isn't already onto my plan and not letting me see that she knows.

Matt are you sure you have any left standing that needs taken down, it sure sounds like you and Theron got'em all?

[Jeff E]

I would look like a couch potato in front of a TV watching Wheel of Fortune!
"Hey kids, come here and look at this, see that sap runnin?"

I would be pathetic!!!

I might have to do it...

[Haynes Forest Products]

I found guages for a great price at Surplus center no. is 1-800-488-3407 they have the simple ones for 5.95 and the Glycerin filled for 12.95. The liquid filled are a better guage and work best on equipment that vibrates.

[PATheron]

Dennis- Thats not a bad rate at all. Ive boiled on a homeade rig that was quite a bit larger than yours for a long time and mine did about that Id say. I would usuall have 100 to 150 taps and make 20 to 30 gallons per year but Id have to boil for days and Im not kidding. Id literally boil till Id go to bed and stoke it up bigtime and get up off and on all night to stoke and add sap then go to work and fill it full of wood and sap to the top and when I got home go back at it. Then after a while Id take off several gallons. Usually a lot of empty beer bottles laying around throughout the season. Gotta keep your fluid levels up around all that heat. I could always find helpers for that part of the job. Theron

[royalmaple]

Dennis-

There is pleanty left, I'd say we cut total in the neighborhood of 100 cords of wood, pretty easily. Probably more. Just haven't hauled it out or done anything but just tipped it over. The tally will be final down the road when I get all the wood out. Notch and drop.

Still have 5+ acres to cut, sad thing is a good portion of the woods we cut was already cut by me a year ago and some more than that, so we had a head start.

[Parker]

Matt- you move my Timbco up there and back and buy the diesel (and other fluids) and we will take right care of it,,,Parker

[royalmaple]

hmmmmmmm

Will that fit on my brothers 15T trailer, for his excavator?

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

lol you are thinking of hauling a timbco and you are worried about moving a sap tank? hmmm

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

News flash= Maine man violates 27 forestry laws. Sugarhouse is now held hostage by the state of Maine for fine ransom of $270,000.

Big cook out in E.Waterboro at the compound Next saturday=I might show up and bail you out??

[Parker]

I am pretty sure the timco weighs 27 tons,,,might want to get a tractor-trailer combo,,,how big is the wood you are cutting?? I have a husky 265RX brush saw that works pretty darn well for the little stuff.......

[Sugarmaker]

Cutting wood, wood and more wood.

Looking for set of used pans 2.5 or 3 x 8 set for neighbor. Drop flue.

I see at a glance that everyone is gearing up for maple season already. We still have to hunt deer!

Chris

[royalmaple]

Kevin stop over.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

I was thinking today at work that i could drop off your "Professional Drum Dolly" like bascom's have=that you stole off me=I gave you a deal cuz' your a pirate-and then maybe if we could equate in a chinese buffet i could load my Norse 3Pt winch in the back of my truck? (Which i will have to take if a buffet is the deal?) and you could use the winch for a month and any time after that the buffet doubles automatically.

You could use the winch on the back of "Chester" (JD670) and then work at your own pace and get into the bush better then your brothers skidder and not skin up the trees so much. Don't want to do any damage to those babies.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Hi Gov!!!
I shot you a email about a bigger rig a few days back, if you are looking for one give me a call, 802-431-3539. Mite be something you would be interested in..

Andy

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Andy- I opened the e-mail/but numbed it about responding back. What i really need is a cam-lock float box for a 5X10 Grimm raised flue pan so i can get the 5X14 that i have in operation.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Sunday Morning and the rain has stopped.. Time to initiate operation tank moove!! pictures to fallow..

[royalmaple]

Kevin-

Gotta go and install a hardwood floor today. I'll give you a call tonight.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Kevin,

How did boiling on that 2x6 go last year?? I don't remember hearing anything much about it. After boiling on the big rigs, I couldn't imagine you liking one that small.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Operation Tank Move complete. Moved 2 tanks to the house today, 1500 gal stainless and a 2000 gal stainless.. All fingers and toes in tact, It was a good day...

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Yes i weren't liking the smaller evaporator/not sure if it was the boil overs about every 10-15 minutes if i didn't hit it with butter/Might have been from the high concentrated sap? but the sap sure likes to jump the pan and the (2X6 Waterloo/Small) has like 20" sides. Never used so much butter in my life= i figure it came out to like 1 stick per 100 Gals :) .Also missed the better flavor in my opinion of syrup off a wood fired rig then an oil rig which is like plain jane=Wood smoke add's to the syrups flavor. Granted the oil fired eliminated 1 job but i had another watching the Electric Evaporator (RO machine) when it was going through different wash/rinse cycles for a bit.

Ready to go back to wood fired when i can? Might have to do oil fired again another season? Time will tell.

Well gotta go and spend time on more important things rather then be an internet nit-wit for an hour and a half every day like i used to be. Still treasure hunting for another week and then i'll concentrate on sugarin' stuff. Found 29 rings so far this year with the metal detector and when i hit my goal of 30 then i'm hanging that up for the year. Next saturday is my deadline automatically.. Tomorrow i feel confident it's over.....

Take Care,
Kevin

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Just throwing a feeler out there, I know where there is a 4x12 stainless pans, welded fron soldered rear, arch (no grates) homemade oil front, wood doors, preheater hood steam stack.. Is anybody interested in something this size? I could help with delivery in Maine, NH VT eastern NY.

msg me

Andy

[jrthe3]

valley what kind of price are we looking at where is it located

[Parker]

Just could not stand it anymore,,,had to have a sugaring day yesterday,,,at the end of last season we threw all the leftover half rolls of tubing-buckets of fittings-milk crates of tools-rolls of wire-vacuum pumps-sap pumps-ect. into one of the bays of my barn,,(here is a tech. tip for you-when you are putting partial rolls of tubing in a pile MAKE SURE YOU TAPE THEM INDIVIDUALY SO THEY DONT GET TANGLED UP!!!),,had also accumulated a tremendous ammount of sugaring and non sugaring "stuff" in the sugarhouse woodshed,,,for 3 hours yesterday morning I untwined-untangled-and organized that entire mess,(wow-did not know I had that much stuff :),,,,wound up with a pick up load of tubing and struck off to the Hill sugarwoods,,,took a roll of flagging tape and site level,,now have the course for the new mainline laid out,,,,also walked 90% of the system up there inspecting for damage,,,,will go back next time with power saw and remove downed trees-clear new mainline path,,,got the sugarhouse and woodshed hoed out and now ready to start putting wood in,,,,fired up the slasher and cut some more sugarwood stacked it up to make splitting eaiser,,,,,all the wood I picked up with the slasher just gushed water when I grabbed it (bad sine for dry wood this year)

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Figured I would throw a few pics up of operation Tank Move, The open top is 1500 gal (the easy one) The other is 2000 gal. I realized this morning I have over 10 thousand gallons of storage sitting at my sugarhouse..
http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg209/vvsugarhouse/?action=view&current=001.jpg
http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg209/vvsugarhouse/?action=view&current=002.jpg
http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg209/vvsugarhouse/?action=view&current=003.jpg
http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg209/vvsugarhouse/?action=view&current=004.jpg
http://s249.photobucket.com/albums/gg209/vvsugarhouse/?action=view&current=005.jpg

[Parker]

Got some help comming today,,,were gonna split and stack all day!!! Cant wait,,sick of looking at that empty woodshed!!

[PATheron]

Parker- Dont mess around, get lots in there. After last year you guys are due for a humdinger year. Last night I finally got pretty mommys projects all done. I feel like a free man today and tonight I can just pick something fun to do. I think Im going to mainline in across the road next. Ive got the stuff to do it but then Im going to have to see what the money situation is on lateraling it in. If I get the mains in now though thats the hard part and I can do the rest on the quick. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

you want to come over and take care of a few things on big moms list here for me?? She has a list I will never see the end of, thats why I don't work on it..

[PATheron]

Andy- Dont think I can help you on that one. I wouldnt mind giving you a hand on the lines but you guys are so darn far away. Once in a while I get up to Matts but its a major undertaking. You guys need to move a little farther south. My girl isnt going anyfarther north, allready asked her. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I will tell you the same thing I told Matt, when you are ready to have a sugaring camp away from home, let me know. We will gang up and blast in 40 or 50k. I bet I can do that within 10 miles of my house..

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Show the wife a map I bet we are east not north :) The kids would like it here too.. Woodchuck tally on the summer for me is 55 confirmed kills 12 misses, the longest was 276 yards..

[PATheron]

You must be in a good spot. Im setting my sights a little lower. I want to get things tapped in on my hill then I want to find a 10'000 tap bush real close. I think that that would be all I could handle good. I want it to be totally perfect though. All mainlines will be designed to be checked with the 4 wheeler. Gages and shutoff valves on every main, 27" everywhere, 5000 gallons every year. Everybodys got to have a dream. Also a milk truck with a jakebrake. Theron

[PATheron]

I already tried Andy. She hates snow and cold. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I like the idea of the milk truck with a jake, everyone would know when you had sap anyway.. Whats it take you 8 hrs to drive to Matts?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Are those Lee, Levis or Wrangler pants? :)

[Dennis H.]

Hey Theron, if she hates snow and cold are you not still too far north!

If we would ever move out of PA the wife has said she wants to move out west!!! Now how the heck can I make syrup when they don't even have maples??

[mapleman3]

Just a reminder to everyone to educate yourselves as best as you can on the Asian Longhorned beetle... and educate your customers... more info at the Sugar Inn !!

[jrthe3]

theron just remember nothing barks like a "CAT"

[Parker]

Was real happy to get 6-7 cords split and 4 stacked in the woodshed,,,gonna have to hustel to get it filled,(Its a big shed-Marvin is HUNGRY and not real impressed with the wood effort this summer),,,,the wood that was gushing water when I picked it up with the slasher was suprisingly dry on the inside,,,should be good burning,,,,Theron-I think this will be a good year with record sap runs, Cause I wont have enough wood to go the whole season!!!!

[PATheron]

Parker- CUT MORE WOOD NOW!!!!!! EMERGENCY!!!!!! EMERGENCY!!!!! Marvin is a high performance piece of equipment and needs a lot of fuel. Dont be letting us down. BIGSAP, BIGSYRUP, BIGMONEY!!!!!!

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Thats not bad for a days work, Hydrolics are a wonderfull thing arn't they... the first year I had my 4x10 I cut and split (by hand) 10 cords of pasture pine never again will I do a stupid thing like that..

Andy

[maplecrest]

got out my calculator and started pushing numbers for this years added taps. now i have been buying material right along. wire, tubing mainline, ect. and i figure that this year i will have 10 dollars into each tap. double 3 years ago. so the price of syrup better stay where it is. filled the oil tank at sugar houe yesterday at $3.51. not far from last spring price at $3.39. hope it stays there. but who know what the hurricane in the gulf will do this week to oil prices.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Thats not horriable with todays prices Maplecrest, if you make 1/3 gal per tap, you will have them paid for this year.. Of course a new bush is a little different, tanks, releaser, vac, etc.

[Russell Lampron]

Parker that is alot of work for one day but I have seen Marvin in action. You will need alot more wood to keep him happy. Have you done anything to modify the arch yet?

[Parker]

AAAHHHHH the price of slacking off,,,,,I think filling the shed with quality fuel is still doabel,,, No arch mods yet,,,the huge blower still sits in the corner of the barn,,,,have mods planned but need a littel time and $ to make them a reality,,,,,talking about it is the easy part,,,I bet with an air tight front my gallons per cord ratio would be much diffrent,,,,,
Splitting wood goes fast when your doing good size 4 foot wood that is stacked 4 feet tall (with the crane) and the splitter keeps pushing the tractor ahead,,,And the biggest help is a 21 year old that is into it helping (ten cord a day-Ray)
Stacked another cord inside today

[Dave Y]

Parker,
You must be slacking if thats all the more wood you have in. How do you expect to make 800 gal of syurp ? I have been taking wood out of a clear cut since the first of july. i have close to 30 cords of 30" wood cut. I have about 25 hauled to the sugar house and 18 of it split and stacked. started splittin on 8/31. I expect to be done by the end of the month then I can think about hanging some more pipe and doing some trapping.

[Pete33Vt]

Parker, Don't feel alone on the slacking part, I'm in the same boat here. I know what needs to be done but with everything else to do alot doesn't get finished. I won't go into details, cause Theron would have a heartattack.Put it this way the concret forms are almost done.

[PATheron]

Pete- EMERGENCY!!!! EMERGENCY!!!! Just kidding. I like to keep you guys all psyched up. Theron

[3% Solution]

PA,
It's got to be the voltage!!!!!
It can't be anything else.
Sure isn't the air, cause people on pure don't act like this!!
Hey, the mornings are getting cooler up here.

This is my time of the year, just nice working weather!!!!

Dave

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

If I had PA's ambition, I would have 10k taps in allready.. ok maybe its not the ambition, but more the money.. Anybody want to be a silent invester???

[PATheron]

Andy, You have to get in that woods. Big season coming. Record prices. Perfect weather. BIG SAP!!! Im stringing tube this weekend and this week I think. I have mainline for across the road but thats it. Im pretty sure Im broke but Im going to run it anyway. Ive got it and its fun to run. Gotta try to keep this thing alive. Theron

[Clan Delaney]

I've been chopping and stacking wood. Came into a little more than a cord of half split seasoned cherry, just had to go get it. Big thanks to my dad. His van trumps my station wagon for hauling wood any day. Surprisingly, the girls were crawling over each other for the chance to pick up each newly split piece of wood and stack it. (They don't know they're doing work. Shhhhh!)

I'm still not sure how much I'm going to need to handle 50 taps.

[Brian Ryther]

I am with Theron. I am also broke but you have to keep the ambition alive. I am going to pick up the 2000 gal tank as seen in the add section Sat am. I was at Leader this afternoon to pick up my syrup pan from being repaired and I learned a lot. Bill told me that if you were to order an evap from Leader today you would not recieve it until Feb. Every one at leader is on 10 hr days and all day Sat until further notice. Bill also showed me how he makes buckets. He is the only person state side that knows how to make buckets. The machenery he uses to make them must be from the mid 1900's. all leather belt driven rotating machenes. They operate from the same power source. He is the last person who knows how to operate the machenes in the company. I also signed up for the conference being held at the Rutland store October 8th. It is free and features Brad speeking about being efficent with making Syrup, tubing, ro, evap and sugar house. I also couldn't leave without another 1000' of mainline.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

The new sugar house is about done, or at least enough that I will be able to use it next spring. Still have some interior work to do, move the evaporator from the old sugar house, complete the wiring, cut the roof to install the chimney but most of that can be done on the lousy days when getting into the woods will be uncomfortable. Now to the retooling of the front bush. Want to get 1500 on vacvroom using a series of sap ladders. Changing some mainlines around to get better slopes. Adding some mainline to shorten laterals. Then back to the new setup in the back bush. Hope to get 600 new taps on vacvroom there this year (1500 more in the future) and a pump system to move the sap over a mile to the sugar house. Of course there is still the unwrapping and setting up of the new RO and filter press. Hey, does anyone know where this hose connects?????????????????
Doug

[royalmaple]

Doug-

Just make sure they sent you the right size muffler for the RO. Can be a pain if you don't have the right one and try to bolt it onto the manifold.

Been there done that.

[Parker]

I prefer a glass pack and a pair of Blue Swingers for the R.O,,,,much better than factory proformance.........

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

The pirate knows. When we used my EE for the first time at his sugarhouse we had this rattling sound continiously coming from the manifold on my Lapierre EE's Exhaust "permeate" outlet=when we tightened down on the 2 manifold bolts to the plate that is inside the vessel it quieted right down. Sounded like loose muffler bearings at first before i figured it out.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I wonder if the Canadian manufactures are this busy?? You would think with the price of evaporators now, the orders wouldn't be up that much. I am sure the high price of syrup is driving the demand or with the value of the dollar, maybe they are selling a lot to people that would normally buy one north of the border.

Be curious to see if they are selling any of them north of the border?? Sounds like it's the busiest it has been there in years.

[maplecrest]

i think the max pan has a lot to do with it. what needs to be worked on is a multi fuel rig. pellets,corn, chips. ect

[Brian Ryther]

Picked up more tanks today. The 2000 gal in the classifieds ended up being a 2500/3000 gal tank. I also picked up a 600gal ss milk tank. I should be close to having a gal of storage for every tap in the field and again the barn. One 600 gal shallow tank for a remote vac releaser station and I will be covered. The leaves are changing!!!!

[PATheron]

Must be getting closer to season becouse Im back to waking up early again. Got two more dry lines to run this morning then Im going across the road. Got a whole day to work on the lines. Once I get the drys in Im going to run the first mainline across the road and that one will go directly into the sugarhouse releaser. Im thinking with the cull trees that will put 2700 on the releaser in the sugarhouse but Im really not sure till I get all the drops in everywhere. Cant wait till first run. Dad sure will be surprised. I tell him Im doing this and Im doing that and he's like "yeah" or "thats nice". I dont think hes really listening but when that releaser starts dumping this year I bet he notices something different. Theron

[Parker]

Was over a Bobs yesterday, walking thru his big sugarwoods,,,the plan is to do an update like we did on his sugarhouse woods last year,,,conductor line, boosters,valves and gauges,vacuum, ect. what a nice spot,,,2 old arches out in the woods,,,some HUGE old trees intermixed in with younger ones,,,old steel pipe in places where they might have had a bucket dumping set up like the Nearings? Gonna need ALOT of mainline,,its a LOOONNGG way from the tank to the last anchor!

[PATheron]

Parker- Whats 10 cord a day Ray doing now? Is the wood all done? Theron

[Parker]

THEEERR(PABIGSAPCZAR)RROONNNN- Wood all done? Not so much,,,,We split all the wood I had at the sugarhouse,,,it got rained on HARD,,so I am going to leave it outside till we get 5 or so good drying days in a row,,,,,,hate to put it in wet..that much harder to dry
Ray now has a skidder and his own logging job,,,I was lucky to get him for a day (ground was wet where he is working),,he is a hell of a good worker and funny as heck,,,,,
Hope he will be able to help this season but he will probably have better paying work,,,,
I am going to try to streamline my sap collecting by dropping some of the smaller bushes I tap and adding more taps the the larger ones with vacuum,,,fewer miles to drive=fewer stops=more sap at 3 major bushes,,,more taps overall,,,,,,If I have help this spring I might tap the smaller ones as well,,,,,time will tell
I need to get some more pine-hemlock home to work up, which means moving to another job,,,all oak where I am working now,,,but very dry ground,,,
I can get a bunch of slabs (30 cord) if I want them,,they are close and,they are very fast to cut up with the slasher (1.5 cord bundel turned into 4 foot wood in 5 minutes) BUT they are kinda a pain to stack and burn (lots of littel pieces-lots of handeling time-they get piled up in firebox with littel room for combustion)

[sapman]

You guys who have no trouble getting permission to tap a sugarbush are lucky! I was getting psyched to put in close to 300 (a lot for me) on a road I already tap on. Already had tentative permission, but the contact needed to talk to the other siblings first. Well, the more opinions you get involved, the worse your chances. They decided having me in there would encourage trespassers, which they hate. So that's a bumber! I'd say I've been rejected 3 out of 4 times this year. So it's back to the drawing board to set up the one woods right near me that my neighbor said I could tap. He's great! Said I could thin it, whatever it takes to make a better woods. But it'll all run away from where I can get to (1100 ft., plus another 1100 to the all season road), with no power, and requires something to pump it back out. Quite an investment for the payback, but it should be neat when done.

Tim

[PATheron]

Busted hump all weekend and got a good bit done. Trying to figure out how to get the trees across the road. Was going to release them over there or run them over the road then found that I can get them to go under the road though the sluice pipe. Itll just make it. Im going to have basically 200' thats pretty much flat. I think theres a touch of drop. That will let me get 500 I think across the road that will run right into the shed. That should put me to 3000 on the double guilles bernard. I think theres probly about 800 culls, average size probly 5", and about 2200 really good ones. Anybody got a guess on a typical dump rate? I may go a couple hundred more yet Im just not sure but Im pretty sure I can at least get these. Hot down here today. Went from rain to 80. Had to change my clothes about 3 times. Need some cool. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Dump Rate?? Short and sweet= Figure on another releaser of larger size if you don't want to anticipate problems. Tap rating is in "cull sized trees" tapped in canada.

[PATheron]

Governor- That releaser is the only one I have for this year. What kind of problems you thinking Im looking at? Matt says keep running tube itll be fine. I told him maybe I should stop stringing line but he says keep goin. Im kind of wondering about when the lines clean in the morning. Ill tell you what kevin those trees across the road sure arent what your describing as canadian. These are some serious woods trees. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Theron, when you have enough you eliminate the cooling tank, let the pump take the extra as coolant, then dump into the storage tank... if you are worried about morning, never shut the pump off, that will cure the problem...

[Dennis H.]

Yeah tell me about the heat today, was out still working on cutting pine out of the woods and man was it hot. It was almost 90 with a humidity of what felt like 100%.

I am stopping in the morning after work to pick up a few fire brick and some refractory mortar and see if they have vermiculite ar perlite. I have to get the evap bricked! But then again it NOW can be a rainy day project, with the evap being inside and all.

You know I thought I was knocking things off my list of stuff to get done before go-time, I think not, The list just seems to get growing.

I did get a syrup refractometer off of ebay, it came on Sat. I will have to try it on some syrup I have to see how well it works.

I have also been selling off some of my coins to get a little extra $$ for my buckets and taps for the new woods I have permission to tap. It looks like I will have enough without "tapping" into my mad money account.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

When things break up in the morning and the sap starts to run then that is where the first problem will be as when things get rollin'. I highly doubt that a twin double will trip and dump sides fast enough barely to keep up with say 2500 on high vacuum/never mind 3000. I think the fastest i timed mine dumping was like 17 seconds average per side on 1,800 and that was with like 16+" vac. 1 side on my double always dumps like 5 seconds different then the other no matter how much the sap is running. Floats are the same height/I just haven't really diagnosed why it does that yet..

I figure that it will fill up so fast that it will lift up the stop vacuum ball in the cage and shut you off completely on the biggest runs of the season. Although you may only have say 2-3 "flush runs" a season/you don't want to have a blunder in the morning as when you get to looking inside the tanks and say what the heck/where's the bigsap? Oh the governor told me so...

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
I'll need a double extractor in the future. Sell me yours and go buy a horizontal one good for lots more taps. I know it is fun to watch it fill and dump but ultimately what you want is BIGSAP.
Got a bit done yesterday. 600 feet of new banjo string out and finished another sap ladder. This one has 3 stars, what a tangle of 5/16 hanging there. If I counted right, I have 3 ladders done and only 14 more to go.
Doug

[Parker]

TTTHH(PASUGARKING)RRRROOONNN-I have seen my doubl bernard have a tough time keeping up with the 600 on RTE.11 in the morning when everything is starting (rarley-biggest of runs) seem like that many taps would be too much at certin times-I have seen those HUGE releasers for sale pretty cheap in the past,,,,I think they are kinda like a big evaporator-limited # of people run them=harder to sell=cheaper to buy used?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

I seen a Bernard single listed on Bascom's used list for $1,100 is that what there going for now?

I might have my Bernard double on the for sale list soon as i need a BIGSAP extractor that handles 6,000 taps/need more capacity myself.

[PATheron]

Kevin- When you say that youve had yours dump real fast like that do you mean just in the morning when the lines are cleaning out or consistently at that rate all day long. I know down here last year mine never even was breathing hard keeping up with my taps. 60 sec normal all day long. Sometimes maybe 50 sec max. Now when the lines cleaned out in the morning sometimes it would dump real fast. I even had it like machine gun when all the lines were full of sap when the power had been off. Is that the fast dump rate your getting at? Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

That is during the day/like maybe 1-2pm. But that is on what i would call a "flush run" some of the biggest sap flows of the year. Daily Gal total wise. Normally about 30-40 seconds on good runs otherwise.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

What do you guys figure your releasers dump gal wise, on every dump??

[maplecrest]

i always figured 30 gallons on my horizontal 6000 benard

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Every bush will run different in aspect to the facing slope. Not knowing what yours is PATheron? South or east i'm guessing? the flow may be dissipated out over a longer time possibly due to many factors involved.Which could be maybe a handfull? Mine the sugarbush face's west and it will take until say 9am. the air temp. will rise slowly say to just above freezing and then after 9 am it's like someone lit a fire after the sun crests the mountain 1/2 Mi away to the east and south and the sap starts to run as the sun is now hitting on the trees good/warming them up. About a little after 6pm. the sun goes down behind the mountain 1 1/2 Mi to the west and it's like you just extinguished the fire.

Parker was talking about Rt.11 bush and that i think face's N-NW?? and has probably the same situation where the sap flow is more intense for a shorter duriation/could probably be longer flow if it was facing a different direction/which would increase the overall sap quanity flow for the day.

With that said maybe the BIGSAP is not really in NW PA and located on a different pointing direction on a compass. Just razzin' ya. Many factors come into sap flows from different bush's.

SO not knowing your exact flow on an hourly basis and now i'm figuring you get a sap flow over a longer time period/you may be ok with the double=You'll know after a few good runs if it will then be able to handle the couple/3 flush runs that happen in a season.

Now on the dump gals. of a Twin Double= I have never checked it/but would guess around 3 1/2 Gals per side?? 3 Gals. on the low guesstimate.

Maplecrest-Do you think that 30 Gal. is right. I've never seen a 6,000 tap releaser that was the size of a syrup drum. Maybe close in Dia. but probably 10" shorter and they only fill up 2/3 full when they dump. SO I was thinking maybe 15 Gals to 20 tops??.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Gov, your figures sound about what I figured.. I have a elec. belly and I was thinking 15 gal on that, looking at pics of a double I was guessing 5 per side max.. I was told by the guy that owns my bush (not the one that set it up or tapped it) the first year they had 4500 on the releaser, with a 1hp pump, the pump kicked on to dump and stayed running strait for 5 hours 15 minutes.. Now that in my opinion is cutting a little close to the limit...

[sapman]

A friend of mine told me his new horizontal will dump 22 gal per. I assume this is the 6000 Bernard, but not positive.

Tim

[mountainvan]

Finally got up on the mountain today for a short cruise through my big bush. Didn't find any damage and most of the tapholes were completly closed. I have one more room in my house to gut down to the studs and then redo. I should be out hanging tubing in a couple weeks. Still bottling syrup, 40 gals last week and 20 today. Sales are still well above last year too!

[Parker]

What a butiful day around here!!! Only a few like it a year......After work I fired up the yard crane and drove it over to my wood yard,,,I remembered I had a bunch of junk wood kinda over a bank....was able to dig about 4? cords out,,(kinda rotten-very wet),,will let it dry for a while and tackel it soon,,,,got the syrup pan off of Marvin,,,eyeballing a air tight front-bricks for grates-huge blower modifacation,,,just might happen,,,,,,,gotta strecth that 40 cord if I am going to make 950 gallons this year :)

[Parker]

Had to have a "personal day-Maple day" yesterday,,,,,Bought a BB-2 in Hillsbrough that I saw on Craigslist (the thing is MINT),,,while I was down in that part of the state I decided I would tour around a littel,,,,,years ago I logged for a large outfit all around that counrty,,,,and rememberd a few old sugarhouses I had seen,,,,I was able to locate 2 of them,,,,one was obviously still in use,,,the other was partially caved in from this winters snow,,,,I knocked on the owners door,,asked him if there was any gear in there he might want to part with,,,"Well", he said,,,,"just that old evaporator",,,And that, my friends is how I know Jeasus loves me...........:)

[mapleman3]

Been spending some time at the Maple Booth at the Big E , TONS AND TONS of people today there. Saw Bodie Peters there last week and Eborassa today.

My back has been good thanks to time and therapy! I do believe I will test it out tomorrow on some of the log pile at the sugarhouse, got 8+cord to finish up!! Times ticking away.

We are doing a fundraiser for our 16yr old daughter whose going to London as an Allstar Cheerleader and performing in the London New Years Parade !

So BIG MONEY to be raised

Decide we will have a pancake breakfast and open house on Sunday Oct 19th at our place here in Belchertown 8am-12noon

YA'LL invited if ya want to have some breakfast and snoop around the sugarhouse ;)

if yer interested, give me a jingle! oh yeah it's my birthday that day and I DOOOOO love gifts HAHHAHAH ;)

[danno]

Hey Parker -

So what did you find in that old sugarhouse?

Finally got around to doing things maple today. After selling some retail and meeting a new wholesale contact this morning, I got up in the woods to pull branches off lines and split a couple face cord before the splitter decided it wanted a rest. Got my young daughters to stack it for me as I was splitting. That worked out well.

[mapleman3]

Pretty happy with the day, I spent just over an hour splitting wood, some pretty large pieces too.. thank god for machines!! I feel pretty good, made sure I didn't over do it. hopefully the work will help build up the muscles I haven't used in a few months. it felt good to get a bit done today :)

[PATheron]

Parker- 950 gallons??? Holy BIGSAP!!!! Im going to have to get back to stringin tube. Governor- My bush is like you said. It faces due east and runs soon in the morning so its probly more gradual than yours. Been gone past week over to Ohio putting services up for valued customers. People got some bad wind. Just catching up on the trader. Parker- After being cooped up in that truck all week Im really ready to string tube now. I did a lot of figuring before I left and I can get a lot of the bush across the road through a sluice pipe into the shed. Then Im thinking I can get the rest of the bush with maybe one lifter. I also found another 60 taps I think I can sneak in. Thinking MAYBE I can hit 3200 with the culls. Goin to give it ONE HELL OF A TRY ANYWAY. I think I may still try to do it with the double too. I think Your right Keven about them coming on in stages with my bush. This is what Im invisioning. Sun comes up and hits the young stand first thing on top of the hill. Little guys start going drip, drip, drip. Then as the sun comes up more my big guys start in. Then after lunch the trees across the road facing due north start dripping just on temp and then SPLUSH, one thousand, SPLUSH, one thousand, SPLUSH one thousand. Dad will know somethings different then. Theron

[Parker]

Danno-there is a 4x12 grim in that sugarhouse,,the arch is shot,,very nice syrup pan,,,flue pan might hold water,some stack, a good stack base,bricks,grates,nothing like your rig,,,,but,,,that makes 3, 4'x12' 's that I have now,,,+ a Leader air tight front for a 4 footer,,,should be able to build something decent,,,,the best part of that day was talking maple with the old buck,,,
TTTHHEE(SOMUCHLATERALLINEYOUCANSEEITFROMSPACE)RROO NN,, the 950 is the impossibel dream my friend,,,,BUT YOU GOTTA HAVE A DREAM!!!! have to get that shed full so we can fofill this years motto,, "Every last drop",,,last year I definatly lost some syrup in the beggining of the season cause it took so long to tap out,,,get my sh@t together,,,,I read thru my "tapping jernol" from last year and have been trying to do a bunch of the things that slowed me down last year now,,,,when there is not 5 feet of snow to swim thru,,,,
Was watching the girls yesterday,,we got 3 full cords in the sugarhouse,,went on woods patrol for a while,,,,found some tops on lines I will clean up later,,,,

[TapME]

The weather is wonderful here today. Our total for taps is up and the 500 mark is getting closer. It could be a banner year.
Now here's a question, how much wood to make 100 gallons do I need? We have 4 cords of slab and 2x4's from a demo job on hand now. A new arch is in the future, its size is 3x8 or 3x9 with drop flues and bricked lined and 3x3 fire box. Just want to get it done now and work on the arch and taps this winter.

[maple flats]

The rule of thumb is 25 gal syrup/full cord. I try to do 20gal syrup/full for my calculations. I now figure 3/8 gal per tap because I am on gravity. In 2010 I hope to have vac and will go double that for calculation purposes so I cover even a banner season. If you have an RO you use much less wood. For me that will come as soon as I add Vac or I will never keep up on an average or better day.

[Russell Lampron]

I used a mixture of hard and soft wood and it took 1.5 cords to make 105 gallons of syrup with an RO. Multiply that by 4 and you will be pretty close to what you will need for 100 gallons without one.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

It depends on how efficient your evaporator is and how high your sugar content is. Maple flats always has much better sugar content than I do, so I probably am about 15 to 1 gallon of syrup to cord of wood. The higher sugar content, the less wood. Do you have a flue pan on your evaporator, how many flues, how long is it, how efficient is your arch. etc. If you have 6 to 7 cords of wood, you should be fine and if it don't take that many, then you have a good start for next year. One thing for sure I can tell you, you can't have too much wood so cut 8 to 10 cords in case you have a banner year.

[brookledge]

I get 25 gallons of syrup per cord. But I would do like Brandon said and shoot for atleast 6 cord.
Keith

[3% Solution]

Hey Lou,
I have figured on 20 gallons per cord.
With the EEU I got about 23 gallons per cord last spring.
Now, you know what my rig looks like.
That is with an average of 3% sap.
I think this coming year I will be closer to 24 maybe 25 gallons per cord.
We had quite a bit of pine last spring and believe me, it doesn't boil sap like hemlock does!!!
We have pretty much all hemlock this year and it should be real good.
How's everything in Maine?

Dave

[Clan Delaney]

Took a maple day of my own today. Drove down to CT to check out someone who said they had cement blocks and red bricks for free. I've nixed a barrel stove arch in favor of a block arch this year. So, I went down hoping to come back with lots of block, but ended up with mostly brick. None of the block was loose... most of it was still part of a wall. I may still find some decent stuff used before Feb. I did end up with about 120 decent red bricks with which to line said block arch. If I'd bought all that new it'd cost me around $85, and that's for cored brick. Mine was all solid, and it only cost me 6 hours, 218 miles, roughly $25 in gas... and possibly a new set of shocks for my station wagon. Uhhhhh....

But that's not all! I also came away with a wheelbarrow's worth of unspecified seasoned logs (not gonna turn down free fuel) and the last stainless steel sink I'll need to complete my set of boiler pans. Not a bad haul.

Don't worry. I'm gonna clean out that sink.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If my evaporator was 4' longer like Keith's, I would likely be around 25 gph even with higher sugar content. A lot has to do on length of evaporator. A 3x7 won't get nearly as good as a 3x10 or a 3x12, not even quite as good as a 3x8.

[PATheron]

Parker- I think the 950 gallons is going to happen. If you say it it will happen. Thats the power of posative thinking. You better have a LOT of wood ready this year. Better get 10 cord a day Ray back on line immediately. Put in a little order yesterday to help the guys in the space shuttle pick out my sugarbush. 30 rolls of 4 seasons. Gotta try to keep this thing alive down here. Dont want you guys to think im starting to slack off. Bout all I need now is a lifter. Maybe a little more mainline. I cant wait to start tapping next spring. Kind of on a shoe string budget for a little while. Gonna have a lot of taps for the storage I have. Only have 2400 gallons of storage for maybe 32-3400 taps. Overloaded releaser. Dad will sure be surprised when he comes up here next year. He better take a double dose of his geritol or whatever it is old people have to take before he comes up. One of the local guys here said Id never make that much syrup again. Im going to prove him right. Were going to make twice as much. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Theron, You will have to boil right to the end too. Last season you slacked off at the end.

[royalmaple]

clan you have some white ash there.

Theron better not give up 1/2 way through the season like last year. He should shoot for .75/tap.

[3% Solution]

Matt and Russ,
I think you guys are right about the slacking off last year.
I think I remember something like "Ah man this is really starting to suck, I'm tired of this, this is way too much."
Now look at him, doubled his taps!!!!!!!
Next spring are we going to get a double dose of the "Ah man this sucks"?
The man has been in between too many transformers that were energized!!!!
Hey PA, just kidding (I think)!!!!
Now you need to have a good frame of mind to do this, just think positive and come next spring, put your head down and GO!!
Remember, your doing this to yourself!!!
How much help do you have with this operation of yours?
Looks like another fine day here in New Hampshire!!!

Dave

[PATheron]

Dave- You guys are totally right about telling me Im pretty much a loser. I did fail myself last year and basically reflected badly on the whole Pennsylvania maple syrup industry. Ill try to do better this year. Im my defense though my sap was down to .9% when I quit but thats just another excuse. I wont ever let that happen again if I can help it. My dad is the only one that helps me but hes darn good help. This year Im going to probly make my kids step up to the plate. They need to start kicking in a little more. A little less guitar hero and a little more maple wont hurt them a bit. Gotta get those munchkins up to speed. First remote bush going in next year. Booy's going to have to learn to drive a milk truck or no more video games. He's 10 now he cant be a kid forever. Theron

[chipa]

Call 1-800-HELP HIM

Give as you can. The man needs maple therapy.

[TapME]

Thanks for the replies, The evap will have a 4 foot flue pan with 7'' flues. I do have the ability to make it a 3x12 or 11 but I really want to go there this year. The wood is mostly spruce and hemlock. This is a big upgrade for us and slow steps will be accepted better than large ones. I guess I will look up more wood just to make sure that I don't leave any sweet uncooked, don't want to be in Theron shoes. The thought is if the price of syrup stays up that the money can be used for upgrades for next year.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

800-help-him couldn't help Theron. Don't know what he as been sniffing lately. We may all be taking up a collection to post bond for him once the authorities get once the drugs he is into!

Shoestring budget, no money for expansion and 30 rolls of 4 seasons in a day?? Can you tell me where they are giving it away?? LOL!!!!!!!

[RileySugarbush]

All I know is I have to meet that guy some day! Maybe I'll check him out from a distance first......

[royalmaple]

He's just High on Life.
With a slight twist of OCD mixed in for good measure.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Sounds like Theeeeeron will be all right on handling the task. He's going to enlist another soldier that will keep him and Ole Pa company during the season. You know how it is another set of hands means more that can be done in a time period (Gopher this and that). My son used to run the woodsplitter handle for about a 1/2Hr tops and it was time to come back home. Spent more time driving over and back then what we worked on= Oh and for his service's that equaled out to about $60 an hour/and of course dad paid for what he wanted first=All those promise's to dad never held up.... I did that about 8-10 times and then i terminated the plan.

[PATheron]

Kevin- My youngest boy loves to help. Wants money for stuff. He hands me wire ties as fast as I can put them on. You wouldnt believe how fast you can tie main in like that. I Only have one boy work at a time for an hour then he trades off with the other boy. That works pretty good. They dont have a lot of endurance for long stints but I think letting them work like that works good and is good for them. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Theron- I'd tell you another trick about putting wire ties on/but it would make you and your boys heads both spins and say do that again= Ever seen the cordless wire tie twister? They make one. As quick as you can pull the trigger a loop shoots out around what your tying and comes back to the machine which twist the wire-It's hand held.

Myself when i do wire ties i have a hand full and work it through my hand to my fingertip and thumb and then push up aligning the holes and in goes the ratchet twister and pull up.

Now when you put on wire ties are the ends loops pointed down or up? Are the ties tight to the pipe or loose? how far apart are they?

[lpakiz]

I worked with a kind old gentleman years ago. He said "One boy is a good boy. Two boys is half a boy and three boys is no boy at all."

[royalmaple]

I think he's got them way way too far apart. Last check the ties were about 3-4 inches apart. Recipe for disaster. Good thing they sell them in 2500ct rolls.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ipakiz I didnt know you new my dad. I have two brothers and I can tell you that is so true but boy did we have fun. He also learned fast to never pay us in advance for jobs LOL

[jrthe3]

you guys had it good if you got payed i worked my dads farm and milked the cows for free when ever you would say anything about him paying ya it was always the same answer "i am paying you you got a roof over your head and food on the table" till i was 16 and got my driver license and could drive to get a real job that payed then i would still help him but it was on my terms cause i really did not need to be there

[Maplewalnut]

Alright governor I'll take the bait. My ties are roughly 8-12 inches apart, some loops up some loops down and they are tied tight......??????????

[royalmaple]

Just ask for mercy maplewalnut.

[PATheron]

Governor- I put them probly 18" apart and I put them so the tie is on top of the wire. I didnt used to worry about it but Matt was down and gave me all kind of @# it about it. If the main is over my head I dont worry about it but other than that I put them up. I also make sure they are tight when Im done. I cant be spending a lot of time on each one. Im Kind of a large bulk hobbiest producer and Ive got a lot of Tioga county left to tap so I cant be screwing around to much. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Computers piss me off. I just spent 35 minutes punch typing a speach for this thread and got booted off by this **** dial up and reconnected and blam i couldn't find my post i was going to make. In about 10 minutes i think i'm headed out to find a new one/if this one wasn't the wife's dinosarus i'd take the piece of crap outside and hit the beejeezus out of it with a friggen hammer. Never know=pictures may follow?

When i sign on again hopefully it will be highspeed with 250 GB instead of 13 and what ever else they come with?/maybe a condom to boot??

Later,

[danno]

Kids helping should be mandatory. You don't make them work now, they won't know how to work for themselves later. It's that much better if they enjoy it - but even if they don't, you're doing them a favor if you make them.

My 10 year old daughter especially enjoys helping me flush lines in the spring -not! Last April we washed tubing on a nice brisk, windy day. I stayed two or three taps ahead of her. My job was to pull the taps. After they sprayed for a minute or so, her job was to put the geyser taps back in the tap cups. They spay like crazy and she was wet to the bone. About 5 hours of this I let her go and did the last few hours on my own. Maybe this spring we will wear ponchos:)

This time of year - I split, they stack.

They do like boiling if there is tasting involved.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Is there a new addition to the governor's cabinet yet?? We all have felt your pain..

[Parker]

You have to keep the littel tikes in the harness,,,builds charecter,,"You can play Barbie when the 40 cords are stacked!",,,WE HAVE WORK TO DO!!!!! Wish I could post pics,,have some good ones of the girls workin,,,
Well its been a busy week here at Maplecreek,,,,spent WAY too much time at the Hill sugarwoods,,,laying out and cutting out the next mainline route,,scopeing out futcher expansion possibilites (lots of trees there),thinning around another section of maples,really amazing how much the trees I thinned around 3-4 years ago have grown, I really need to hit megabucks so I could do this full time,,,just spectacular weather to be preping for an expansion,,,,was able to log for a couple of days to boot,,,,supposed to POUR here today,,so looks like a good day to round up some help and an evaporator or 2,,,,got a bay in the barn hoed out,,,interested to see if any of these flue pans I got will hold water,,,,

[royalmaple]

I worked at the cumberland fair yesterday all day at our assoc. sugarhouse. I had a blast. Lots of nice people and lots of questions. I had a crash course in maple cotton candy making and that was my title for the day. I made a ton of that stuff and as soon as I had a bag full I was two bags behind. We didn't sell a ton of syrup, but did sell lots of maple products.

I also learned something new yesterday. During a break we had a group of small kids come in with a school group. I asked them does anyone know where syrup comes from.....One kids looks up at me and says.

Yuuuuup.

Ok, where?

He says........Cows!!

Well I never knew that. So there you have it another mystery solved. I actually had another kid say the same thing later in the day.

***Batten down the hatches, big storm coming***

[3% Solution]

Matt,
Ok I get it now ...... light syrup from light colored cows and dark syrup from dark colored cows.

Dave

[mountainvan]

The trick is for Barbie to go on vacation in her fabulous RV to the woodshed, where she goes to practice the master cleanser diet, anyone catch the office last night, and stack wood to keep those rock hard abes and buns of steel! For boys GI Joe is searching for cobra in the woodpile so he can capture him, transport him to Brussels, and try him for crimes against humanity. It's all in the presentation. Anyone want to help Barney count to 30 gallons of syrup bottled today?

[Jim Brown]

Well finially got to the saml bush today(350 taps) to see if any damage done by the hurricaine. Well there was plenty. Four big!! trees down on one main line three of them tappers lost about 20taps on those. Wind twisted two of them off about 30 feet up and dropped the tops on the main. Got them dug out and found a cherry and a small maple dropped on the line further up. Will most likely have about 5-6 pick-up loads of wood for the evaporator when we are done.We have about 75 taps on that main and nearly all the laterals are down on that section.Plenty of brush to move.
Have yet to get to the main bush to see the damage there. Not looking forward to it .Lots of work to do and 400 more taps to get it!

Jim

[PATheron]

Guys- Going to try to get the mainline in the air for the bush across the road this weekend. Got kind of cold and it looks like rain but I cant let poor health and potential illness slow down production. Going to try to get the wire up and the main pulled in tight. That will be a big order then clip it in next week. I cant remember how much main there is but its enough for about 800 taps. Going to run the main up and down the slope every 100' apart. Should make nice short lats. The property is real neat, its straight up and down and the trees are real nice. Shouldnt have any mains freezing up. Should take about 1.5 sec for a drip to hit the releaser. I also found that I can run a line from there up to the top of the hill where some huge trees are and Im getting permission to tap them. Im not sure if Ill really be able to though becouse of the money. If I do come up with the money I think Id be crowding 4000 taps but Im not sure dad can handle the shock to his system when that stuff gets to the sugar house. Hes an old man and you never know what that kind of stress could do to a guy. He might start even thinking his own son has lost his mind. He gets confused like that. Theron

[3% Solution]

PA,
When are you going to quit your day job and go PA Maple Inc?
Naw just kidding!!!
Been raining here all day, been inside.
I don't like to work or play in the rain any more.
Just remember, you get sick and nothing will be getting done!!
Sure would like to see this operation you've got there, sounds great!
Sure wish my dad was alive to do this stuff with, it would be soooo much fun.
Doing it with my grandson and that's pretty special!!!!
The closest I ever get to you is maybe Hamburg, but usually Lancaster County.
We've got another 1/2 cord of wood to get in, with another 3 1/2 cord to cut up and stack. (Yeah I know you would use that up in an afternoon).
We're going to put up some more line so as to cut down to about 40 buckets.
That's all stuff we can do in a couple of days when the weather gets real nice.
Oh well, keep plugging!!!

Dave

[PATheron]

Dave- Id love to make syrup for a living. When I bought the evap I told My wife that someday maybe I could make syrup for a living and I asked her how much syrup Id have to sell to quit my day job. She told me 80,000$. You figure youd have to make quite a bit becouse of operating costs, health insurance, savings, etc, etc. 5000 taps next year. HMMMM 2500 gallons times 11 is 27,500 lbs times 3.32 a pound is 91,000$. HMMMM. A lot of ifs in that number but everyone gets to have a dream. That sounds like a good number but lets not forget the probly 6 figure investment by then to make that much syrup and thats doing everything myself. Last year was what the local guys said was the best season in two decades. Best syrup prices in history. I think if a guy was to really try to make a living at it he better run an awefull lot of taps and they better be run really right. Then figure on getting about half the money we got this year. So its probly a bad way to make a living. All things considered, yeah Id quit tomarrow if I could get away with it. I really like my town job but nothing could compare to spending every day in the woods. Id get up at 4 every morning Id be so excited to work on stuff. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I agree it would be a lot of fun but just like everything, if you had so many taps it turned into a year around job every day of the week, it would get old just like everything else. Might be later instead of sooner, but I it would happen.

[PATheron]

Brandon- I dont really think it would for me. Ive been excited about doing it and actually doing it since I was around 10, 12 years old. You might be right though, Id like to find out. Theron

[3% Solution]

PA & Brandon,
Yeah I agree, it would be a job and now it's fun.
It would be like any other job, there would be times when it was great and then there would be times when it would "SUCK".
I loved firefighting for 22 years, but not the family holidays when I had to work but, somebody had to be there.
There is a fine line which separates the hobby from the job.
We will keep small, just to keep it a hobby, at least that's my feeling for right now.

Dave

[Haynes Forest Products]

As my pappy used to say when your hobbie becomes a job it is no longer a hobbie. And now I think back at him trying to back his boat into the water and I think he liked to torcher himself with his hobbie. That man could jackknife that **** boat in less than 10 feet with my Mother standing 200 feet back making little circles in the air with her fingers I think that was her hobbie.

[PATheron]

What I wonder about more than anything is the half gallon thing. I find it hard to believe you can do that every year just by maintaining the high vac levels. Im not sure we can do it down here with the warm weather. Im kind of thinking we can but like I said its kind of hard to believe it. Not to wish any bad luck but I want to see how bad it gets on a bad year doing everything by the book. If I can still do the half gallon thing hobby time is OVER! I can hear the jake brake and the airhorn already. Theron

[royalmaple]

Once I turn on the high vacuum at my place this year you will see a noticable reduction in sap flow from east to west, NH doesn't have a chance, Mass will see close to 55% reduction and so on. Theron, I'm going to single handidly reduce any season you can have down there in any perfect senerio by at least 15-20% just with the big suck on my roots up here in antartica as you like to call it.

You've got a couple more years most before I put 300 cfm pump here at the house on the brush. Only thing you can do is get in the big leagues and buy a serious pump from me and try to play tug of war with me on the sap in the ground.

[PATheron]

When I get this whole hill tapped were going to have 4 of your 130's running simultaneously at the sugarhouse. That ought to make something happen. I cant wait to see one of those things running. Seems like my pump is pretty unbelievable but thats got to be just plain remarkable. Maybe theres so much suck you dont even get leaks becouse it just reseats things. Theron

[royalmaple]

Yeah you won't even have to drive a spile just put it reatively close to the tap hole and smack- o wham-o, right into the hole and you couldn't even pull it out.
I'm gonna have to come down for two weeks just to tap you in.

[3% Solution]

I guess there's going to be a lot of trees that are going to implode!!!!!
I don't stand a chance, I might just as well sell everything for scrape metal!!!!
I bet your sugar content is going to go to hell when the lakes start to drain!!!!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I started about 13 or 14 and have been doing it about 15 years not counting the 4 or 5 year layoff I took off after college. I would like to do it also, but after a while, it would be just a job. Yeah, it would have it's good times but imagine how frustrating it would be to have 10,000 taps and make 500 gallon one year and maybe 1500 gallon the next year and your family was depending on you and the income from syrup.

That's when it would lose the fun. Not too many years as good as most of the US had it last year. Not great down here like it was for you and a lot of others, but an average year because in 6 weeks, I made 50% of my crop in one 6 day stretch.

[3% Solution]

I got started at about 17, but never had the time until I retired.
That's pretty much the norm for us, we usually make 50% in a week, sometime around the end of March.
It's usually boil everyday for about 4 or 5 hours.
This is a good hobby, it pays for it's self and the family doesn't have to buy syrup in the store.

[PATheron]

Its all just for fun. I think its fun making syrup at any level. Your probly right Brandon about the numbers. I dont see anybody down here making a living at it other than Patterson and some people have some big numbers of taps. Im still going to dream big though. As long as I can afford it Im going to do it. I wont do anything crazy though till I see some consistency year to year. If I see that then Ill invest some good money but Im not a stupid person financially. I had a ton of fun with my homeade rig for years and years and I doubt that boiled over 8 gph. I was pretty darn excited though on a good run day and had a lot of fun boiling it. I think its the time of year and the smell and the anticipation. Whatever it is its addictive. I see other guys on here that have it just as bad as I do. Theron

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

HAYNES if things really get boring for you on a warm sunday afternoon go to the boat launch. it can be like going to the circus

RICH

[3% Solution]

Yup your right PA it is fun, lots of fun!!
For me it's a New England tradition and a family get together.
I have enjoy watching my grandson grow through the process since 2001.
He was 10 when we started and it was his idea.
I tell you what, I am just as bad as you, if you were here I would talk and do something Maple with you anytime!!
NHMaplemaker lives about 15 miles from here, him and I are always talking Maple.
Like I said earlier, it pays for it's self and if the $$$ aren't there, it doesn't happen.
I do believe if your on the site, you have been bite big time!!!!
So yeah your not alone, your with your own here!!!!
I've got to start an Arc tomorrow!!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Just don't get too many taps that you get overwhelmed and it starts to lose the fun. I know all the extra money will be nice!

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Making a living off sugaring, is just like any other ag deal.. You need to put away on the good years to have extra on the bad.. Would it get boaring?? My grandfather always told me "if you love what you do for work, you will never work a day in your life" Kinda words I have always lived by, too bad I have always had to work..

[Russell Lampron]

Looks like I am going to have to put up with some more crappy seasons here. At least until I can afford to buy one of those "HIGH SUCK" vacuum pumps to keep Matt and Theron from sucking all of the sap out of my trees. Building a dam around the bed rock to keep the ground water in is out of the question.

I can't wait until I retire so that I can devote most of my efforts to sugaring. The trees aren't hard to figure out like all of the new technology that is going into cars these days.

[Parker]

HAA-HAAA-Haa,,,,,,,I do love reading these threads,,,,we are all maple junkies,,,,,I like to say "My vocation is my avocation",,,,,I do so love my work,,,logging,,and sugaring,,,,,your life and your work is what you make it IMHO,,,,,,
Meet up with "All day Ray" and ripped down to Francestown in the pouring rain,,,,unfortunatly the flue pan was shot upon closer examination,,,,got a bunch of nice fire bricks,,a butiful 5X4 syrup pan (solderd-stainless-grimm dropflue) some stack- doors-grates,,gonna go back after the arch later,,,no time to get the 2nd and 3rd rig,,,,,but soon,,,its fall rains here,,,,,

[PATheron]

Raining here too. Dispatcher woke me up this morning and I couldnt get back to sleep so I ran all the stuff out to the woods with the 4 wheeler. 6400' of main laying on the ground in there now. Got to go get another couple rolls of wire tonight at tractor supply. Cant waste any daylight. Running the mains up and down the hill instead of across the slope like Wheeler told me too. Hes probly right and I am genetically defective but I just cant be waiting around for that sap to get to the releaser we need it there NOW! ITS AN EMERGENCY!!! Theron

[royalmaple]

The emergency is you getting on the computer and getting outside running some tube.

[brookledge]

Valley view hit the nail on the head. When you have a great year you tend to say why don't I increase so I make even more next year. Well next year comes and is a poor season and you are scraping just to pay for all of last years expansion.
This year I had a banner year and would have made over .6 gallons of syrup per tap had I not run out of wood so I had to sell 3,000 gallons of sap.
So for next year I'm not going to crazy with all the uncertainty of the economy. Maybe I'm being to conservative but I want to get something back from the expansion I did last year (going from 700 taps to 1150) before I spend alot again.
Keith

[PATheron]

Today was a tough day to work down here. A lot of rain. We needed it so its good we got it. The leaves are awesome. Wires going up now. Had to get some more so I did it while it was raining. Wont be any tube going up today but might get the wire all up. If not theres always tomarrow. Fun to check out trees while your running wire. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Unfortunately as we all know it is not uncommon to have a couple or more of not so good years in a row, as I don't want to use the term bad.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

I didn't go get a new computer/been thinking about buying more mainline instead/Computer doesn't help get sap downhill=tubing does. Gotta get cracking if the dream is going to be a reality? been screwing off bigtime and thinking about it/which accomplish's nothing. I need to get stringing more mainline and laterals ASAP.

Like valley view said theeeeeron you need to consider the good with the bad and it's not unlikely to get more then 2-3 bad's in a row lately(Bad is 1 QT on Vac). If you figured in the bad equation as a base line and then took the good you'd be golden. If there is the possibility to get access to all the trees then have probably 7-8,000 taps would make the reality with todays price's. Certainly wouldn't do that on price's like 5+ years ago when light amber $1.30 a Lb one spring at Bascom's. You would be able to handle thatmany taps in the situation your in now where you have extra hands available and with the kids getting older maybe they could chip in say 5% and that would be a big help all together.

Even if someone was to just run the RO and have all the sap zapped up to say 20%+ then your hours ahead on the next step.

So would anyone care to guess what is the operating expense's on 8,000 taps would be?

[PATheron]

Got almost all the wire in the air today. Going to finish that up tomarrow and start running tube on it. Lot of variables to the operating expenses. In my case it seems that the initial setup is the big money and the operating expenses are minimal. If you run an ro and concentrate high and burn wood the fuel is pretty cheap if you have the wood. Im thinking that I may quit the wood after next year and go to oil and just concentrate high. The other thing Im trying to avoid is trucking and Im not sure how thats going to pan out. Im actually thinking about pumping everything to the shed just to avoid that. 8000 taps at a gallon per tap is a semi trailer. Lay some realistic figures on us Governor. My thought is the more work a guy can avoid the more syrup a guy can make. I cant imagine trucking 8000 gallons with a pickup even right near the house. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

For a rainy day I got alot accomplished. First I helped the wife get a pot of beans in the oven. I went down stairs and brought up the pint of Red Roof Maples grade B maple syrup to put into them. After that I canned up 5 gallons of quality product to fill in bare spots on the syrup shelves. After lunch I tore the evaporator apart, rinsed the pans and hood, cleaned out the ashes, scraped the old rail gasket off and got it ready to paint. Made a trip to the hardware store for some stove paint and will be painting the painted parts of the arch tomorrow.

Can't wait for the wife to get home. Those beans smell good and I am hungry.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

By the time you are at 8000 taps on a remote site, you can afford to have a RO at the sap house, and truck say 2000 gal of concentrate instead.. a small milk truck will haul that in one trip..

oh don't forget the jake on that thing...

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Gov, I would guess you would have to figure $1 a tap a year, after the initial investment period say10 years, and probabley close to $3 a year for the first 10 years. This would be starting with no equipment at all..

[ennismaple]

Got almost all the wire in the air today. Going to finish that up tomarrow and start running tube on it. Lot of variables to the operating expenses. In my case it seems that the initial setup is the big money and the operating expenses are minimal. If you run an ro and concentrate high and burn wood the fuel is pretty cheap if you have the wood. Im thinking that I may quit the wood after next year and go to oil and just concentrate high. The other thing Im trying to avoid is trucking and Im not sure how thats going to pan out. Im actually thinking about pumping everything to the shed just to avoid that. 8000 taps at a gallon per tap is a semi trailer. Lay some realistic figures on us Governor. My thought is the more work a guy can avoid the more syrup a guy can make. I cant imagine trucking 8000 gallons with a pickup even right near the house. Theron

Theron - Due to the lay of the land in our bush we haul sap from 5 different locations. It all comes in on a wagon behind our International tractor in a 525 gallon poly tank. It wouldn't haul a much bigger tank up some of the hills - especiallly when you've got sloppy mud on top of frozen ground. Most of our trips are 45 minutes from the time you leave the camp until you're back plus 15 minutes to drain the tank. When the sap's running well the guy gathering can barely keep up and he can also barely stay ahead of the RO and evaporator. If at all possible you should pump to your sugar house. It saves a lot of labour!

I've got one tank that I think I'll start pumping to the sugar camp in a couple of years once I get things sorted out on how I can run our bush myself. The holding tank is only 600 feet from the sugar camp but on the other side of a 60' high hill. I know our transfer pump will get it there, it's just a matter of the time to string the extra mainline and make the other connections. I figure that 400' of the 1.25" tubing will end up draining back to the tank - that's about 25 gallons. If I went with a 1" line to pump the sap back only 16 gallons would drain back to the tank.

[PATheron]

I like the idea of pumping versus hauling too. Once you get into trucking it just seems like youve got a full time job just doing that. The bush Im doing across the road is about exactly like you describe for distance and I was wondering how much sap would drain back. Sounds like small pipe would work good in my setup becouse I dont have a lot of taps on it anyway. How far away is your new bush and how do you get that sap? Theron

[ennismaple]

How far away is your new bush and how do you get that sap? Theron

Theron - Google Earth tells me it's about 2,700 feet to the tanks in the new bush. I'd guess we'd need 4,000' of tubing to get back there. Problem is there are so many ups and downs between the camp and the tank the line would never drain. We gather from that tank with the 525 gallon poly tank on the wagon behind the tractor.

If you can pump the sap straight up a hydro pole or a tree at the tank and then have it gravity drain to the camp you won't get much sap draining back to the pump.

[jrthe3]

PA this is what you do quit your job get your self a still and alot of corn run the corn through the still that will give you the fuel for your evap. and your milk truck

[PATheron]

Jrthe- Ive actually thought about that. I think with a steamhood and not a whole lot more the evap would make a pretty good still. Got most of the main in the air this weekend. I think its going to come out super. Theres somewhere between 4 and 5000 feet of it hanging over there now. Basically its just strung on the wire and needs clipped in then graded good. I feel real good that that much is done though becouse the rest of the work is real easy. I did that by myself in two days and one evening. Its amazing how fast you can put that stuff in if you have a pretty clean woods. I have a little more to do but thats basically enough to do 800 taps. That woods is going to really perform good I think. Ive learned a lot since I did my woods and the more you do it the better it comes out for sure. Its nice to look at other peoples stuff and kind of file it away. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Your an animal, man I could use some of that new shiny stuff you have, sure would make my life alot easier...

[ennismaple]

I don't know if we should put Theron on a milk carton or give him (and his wife) a medal!!! I thought I was passionate about maple - and then I met the Biiiiiiig Sap'r.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

We should put him on a milk carton, with a big wanted above him, I can see it now..



WANTED

Theron AKA PaTheron
Beleived to be armed and Dangerous
Known to put holes and high Vacuum on maple trees of any shape and size
This is not a hate crime, as he is not selective, hitting all in his path
Please do not try to aprehend on your own
Call 1-800-save him if you have any information

[PATheron]

You guys are nutjobs. Im just trying keep this thing alive down here and all you guys want to do is pick on me. I just want to see a little BIGSAP. Is that so wrong. Gotta take a little break probly and cut some firewood for my dad and the neighbor then its go time. Should have all the tube and fittings I need to put everything together in a week or two. Gotta be ready. Very big season ahead. I can feel it. Theron

[mapleman3]

This weekend I managed to get something down between the rain drops and our local town fair. I am opening up the sugarhouse to the saphouse for more room , so I moved all my buckets to the barn loft. I;m starting to close in the end wal off the saphouse. it will give me another 8 x 22 on to the sugarhouse, which will now be almost 20x22, the saphouse side has the roof sloping down lower though, not a full hight wall, but it will still give mae alot more room in there, more room around the 3 x 8 is needed for sure.

Maybe be done with that wall in a few evenings, then move the 310 bulk tank outside and do the front wall. wish I had a tractor to move it though

[Dennis H.]

I have finally got the chance to start bricking the evap since I moved it into its new home. I have about another evening worth of cutting and cementing them in.
It is amazing how much work there is in bricking such a small evap, lots of cuts.

I got 120 buckets coming this week, that way I will have enough for the new taps and some for the trees that I have here at the house.

I got my sap collection rig already to go, with the pump I will be able to pump it into the tank when I am collecting and then pump it out of the tank when I have to off-load it back at the sugarshack.

The trees down here are just starting to turn and the temps are just starting to get into the 60's so before I know it, it will be go time. Trying to get everything done in time, along with everything else that needs done around the house before winter.

[peacemaker]

10 years ago today i climbed Katahdin after walking 2160 miles from Springer in GA ... was a amazing trip ..it rained 23 out of the 30 days in april and rained 18 days straight fun ... miss the trail miss the freedom of the woods and having everything i needed on my back ... but today i connected with a friend that i met on the trail and was a big reason i moved to this area near the trail.. today we climbed up out of manchester vt to the first shelter hung out and laughed about the trail then headed into town for some steaks what a great day it even rained a bit on us as we came down (which brought back memories it self ) it rained 23 out of the 30 days in april and it rained 18 days straight that year we hiked talk about being wet. then as we drove back to town the clouds parted and the jesus light shown down on the mtns ... was a great end to a great day ...

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I can only imagine the feeling you had on that day.. I have climbed Katahdin probabley 10 times in my life, always a spectacular feat, but nothing compared to 2000+ miles before doing it.. Congradulations on a great reunion to a great accomplishment..

[TapME]

How many names are on the list for a completed journey on the trail? There was less than 2000 when I saw it some years ago.

[Parker]

Got the grates out of Marvin,,,got a wheelbarrow of ashes out,,now can see what I am doing with the air tight front conversion,(other than talking about it for the last 3 years),,,,,I put 6-6" plastic tubes in the concrete floor that go from outside the sugarhouse to right behind the firebox befor I poured the floor in 2004,,,,,will put the BAB (Big As$ Blower) outside and blow arch air inside,,,plan on having 4 diffrent forced air zones,,,---Under the grates (which will be bricks),,in the door-at the top of the ramp under the start of the fluepan-and down each side,,,,,, Still need another 20 cords,,,and $2000 for tubing,,,,I am never gonna keep up with TTTHHHEERR(GONNAHAVEMORETAPSTHANFAIRFIELDV.T.)OONN NNNNNNN at this rate!!!!!!

[Uncle Tucker]

Parker,
Sounds like you have your work cut out for you. Have you started with construction yet or still in the disassemble stage? I can’t wait to see before and after, you should move some sap with all that air. How many taps are you putting in? Are you setting up a new bush or adding to one?


Parker let me know if you’re around this weekend,,,, those beers aren’t going to drink them selves.

[PATheron]

Parker- One of these years if I get done early I want to come up and run Marvin, a real evaperator. That air has to make a big difference. Your thinking this is going to be the big one this year too. Then when you think of these syrup prices inside you start to get a little panicky thinking you might of forgotten to tap a tree somewhere. Know the feeling. Last year a wise OLD sugarmaker, gave me some very good advise. I think of these words often. He said and I quote " TAP EVERY FREAKIN TREE YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON THESE PRICES ARE GOING TO BE WAY UPTHERE". Keep us posted on all sugarbush developement. Tell 10 cord a day Ray he needs to quit monkeying around and get some wood ready. Theron

[jrthe3]

hey pa i with you on taping every tree i can find i have 2 weeks off for deer season i think my deer hunting is going to be done well stringing tubing with my 357 on my belt

[PATheron]

That sounds like a real good idea. I bet you might get one becouse you really dont make that much noise when your working on that stuff. Id do that but I cant hit anything with a sidearm. Id have holes in the mainline, the house, Marmaduke. Im a good man with an 06 though. Ill just keep old faithfull propped up against a tree or something. Theron

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Way back in the posts when Valley View hit the figure $1-$3=That is close to what i'd figure to be an operating fee/tap wise. Recently it has been about $1.50 per tap for operating expense's for me straight up rather i sugared or not the expense still had to be paid, figuring in lease fee's for SH+Taps, Equipment insurance, product liability insurance, Misc supplies like sap filters, filter aid and papers which might be $100 a season. Not including in any equipment purchase's like evaporator, Electric Evaporator "RO" ,tubing, mainline and such which are paid for/Might be another $1.50??. If you had to figure in that then VVSH would be close on $3 a tap for expense/pay back for operating.

So Theeeeeron you'll have to figure in what your operating expense's would be as i have no idea where it would stand??

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Gov, you can do it a little less the $1.50 a tap, It is hard to do but last year I was closer to $1.00 a tap.. Then again I am the king of trying to drink champagne on a beer budget..

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

I will be under $1 a tap this year. Only thing extra is really the more taps fee now considered the rest of the fees have to be paid reguardless.

[TapME]

Are you saying that for a 1.50 I can string line and put taps in on average? Tanks not included I presume.

[peacemaker]

well in 98 4000 people started and only 400 of us finished

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

a $1.50 would be the figure I would use if it was a bush with piping, vac tanks etc, that would be just maintenance materials. I figure $2 a tap to set up a new bush, that is taking out a 10 year loan, and it costs $2 a tap a year to pay it back.. $3 a tap a year for 10 years to pay back a loan on a new bush and sugar equip, not including sugarhouse...

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

I was talking about basic operating cost that occur yearly/not including replacement of tubing,tanks and such//just cost that inclue like i said tap fee-If you lease trees? Electricity? Insurance Etc...For a sizeable operation of say 7-8000 taps. This doesn't include equipment cost and such to start up an operation as you could be in the Million dollar mark if you wanted to include a say new tires for the truck with the Jake Break, Crome hub caps and an arooogah horn then you could be talking serious $, Might even have to add in the dice on the valve stem for cost of a couple of $ that would add to the bottom line=NOT what i'm talking about for basic operating cost...

Someone else's case might be Taxes of $300 on the SH and land and then insurance of say $900 and Misc. sugarhouse filters of $100. Electricity of $250-Gas??..and they run say 1000 taps so that would be $1,550 on 1000 taps for their estimated operating cost of $1.55 per tap.

[TapME]

Peacemaker, when I saw the list in 78 it had about 2000 names in it at Baxter. That's some time ago and I can't tell you if that was the # of people that started that year or that had finished to that date. Mine was from Vermont to Baxter and it was quite a trip.

The tubing will be a new experience for me and should help save some time. My sap hauler bought a snowmobile with his summer money. Now to make a pull behind sled with a tank for it. He'll have fun picking up the sap.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Maplewalnut- The bait is if you have your twist hanging down they will rust out in probably 10 years at the twist from all the moisture that runs down it during all the 4 seasons we have in area's that have sugarin' seasons. If there up in the air like they should be water will not run down them like a spout so to say when its raining out. rain and especially Snow settles on the mainline and melts off and the twist up dry off quicker/with them down snow turns to water and with the mainline on a pitch the first stop is the twist tie and down goes the moisture and it likes to settle in the twist and rot them out in less then 10 years in our area. Up i haven't seen one rust off in who knows when? 2 decade's+??

Distance between twist ties =depends upon if you installed the twist and mainline pipe correctly? not pulling it wicked tight when installed cold will worsten as the season gets underway (installed in 5-10 degree weather and sappin' weather at 40) will put some snake's and humps in the line. Depending upon temperature swings you'll need to figure on how much the pipe will contract and expand/if you done you planning right along with enough twist ties it will look good during sugaring weather/if not then it will look like your neighbors mainline :) 18"-2' is probably the average and then if it snake's on ya go in and put in some more twist to narrow the distance to 12" or so?

In all instance's though if you have more then your own 2 hands doing the mainline it looks way better with 4 hands or more=someone pulling with the mainline like a tug of war and you installing the twist ties. Most worlds aren't like that as some of us do the whole 9 yards by ourselve's and have to do with what we got at that time and place.

Theeeeeron's case though he needs to add more twist ties and try and do 1 better then trying to follow by the book and add extra weight to his mainline so then he thinks he getting bigsap/When he actually creating a sag in his mainline and has a vacuum transfer blockage between trees and loose's 1" of Hg above that point and then the whole seasons shot on that mainline completely :(