August journal

[Parker]

OHHH BOYYY,,,,I have a lot to do to get ready for next year,,,bearly started my wood,,havent visited any of the orchards this summer,,,,want to put up another 300 taps in Hill,,,modify 2 vacuum pumps,,,still have not lifted the pans off the arch!!! Really want an airtight front and a better blower set up..add more stac,The list goes on.......

[PATheron]

Parker- You gotta waaaannnnnttt it. Theron

[Gary R]

Back to tinkering with my rig. Mounted my supercharger outside under the sugarshack. Grate is complete. Now trying to polish a sheet of brushed stainless so my new pan can get bent and welded.

Jim Brown, Hope your trip to Germany is going well. Does this mean your setting up your European operations?:)

[Brian Ryther]

Rain Rain Go away. I was able to work for an hr this morning before getting totaly soaked. Time to go spend $ at Lows. Then to the barn to wire up the reostat for the blowers.

[3% Solution]

Thanks Brian,
Your rain started here around one.
Heavy rain, lightning, houses being hit by lightning within 30 miles of here!!!
Thanks again.

Dave

[maple flats]

I think our July might have been the rainiest on record and Aug isn't starting any better. We need to dry out, my blueberries are drowning.

[Dennis H.]

I got permission from the boss today to allow me to turn the backroom of the upstairs of our garage into my sugarshack.
We built this "garage", with living space above, back in '97 to have a place to live in when we got married. Now that we have the house built the garage hasn't been used for anything but storage.
The back room is 10'x12', I will gut it down to the studded walls and build a small cupola into the roof. I will pour a concrete floor onto the subfloor, I guess 1" thick should work. I will also have to put a door in between this room and the rest of the upstairs of the garage.
What will make this nice is that there is a full kitchen right around the corner from where the evap will be.

You can see the barrel evap tarped near the back door, I had it set up where the trampoline is sitting now. I was going to make a shed roof to set the evap under but when I thought of the backroom and the wife had no problems with it, I think converting the room into a sugar shack is the best choice.

[3% Solution]

Hey Dennis,
Why am I so confused???
If the room shown is the upstairs, is the garage built into the side of a slope?
Cause it sure looks like it's ground level to me!
Anyway looks like a good room for it, also sounds like there is room for expansion too!

Dave

[PATheron]

Dennis- Your going to love being inside. That looks like a pretty civilized setup to me. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Yeah I should have taken a pic from the front also.
From the front it looks like a 2 story cape code house, with the 1st floor the 2 car garage.

[Dennis H.]

Theron it even has cable tv and high speed internet, now I need to find a nice recliner chair.

[Russell Lampron]

Don't get to comfortable in there Dennis. You will be falling asleep and burning your pan.

[Dennis H.]

See my plan is finally coming together, but don't tell the wife.

Once I have it all finished and turned into a nice sugar shack I will have to tell her that it is a big waste without a nice new shiny evap. I figure a 2x4 will fit without any trouble and a 2x6 would fit but be a little tight.

You think it will work, or do you think she already knows of my plans??

[PATheron]

Dennis- Shes probly got it figured out. Looks like it going to be pretty nice. If you can get a 2 by 6 in there that would be super. Next youll have an ro and be running a couple thousand taps. Theron

[Dennis H.]

3%, here is a pic of the front, you can see that we built it into the side of a hill, the second floor is walk right out onto ground level.

Theron, yeah she probably knows, she's just letting me think that I think that she thinks that I think that she doesn't know what I am doing. Did I say that right?? If I told her that I was going to expand that much I might as well move all my stuff up there, but then again that doesn't too bad!

I was surprised when she wasn't against the idea of turning it into a sugar shack. In the end I think the most expensive part will be the flue that goes thru the roof, I think that double walled will be the safest way to go.

[royalmaple]

Had fun with some vacuum and a syrup drum today.

How many inches to crush a Steel 55 gallon drum.... You might be surprised.

I took a video of the whole thing, I have to upload it.

Magic # is about 20 inches. Only poped the top at about 5". Nothing happened at all till 20 inches, then she moved a little. I'll let the video speak for itself.

Dennis- did you mow the lawn before you shot the picture? Come on fess up.

[3% Solution]

Matt,
You have way too much time on your hands!!!
How long did it take to implode it!!
Next time you have time to kill, let me know I've got 7 bundles of slabs to cut up!!!

Dave

[3% Solution]

Dennis,
What are talking about a 2x6 would be tight in there.
The way I see it, a nice 3x10 would fit just great in there somewhere.
That little room your going to work on, well just fill it with wood and your ready to go!!
I agree with PA Theron, you will just love being inside.
It's just nice, warm, out of the elements, and with a kitchen and TV, OH YEAH!!!!!!
We won't tell your boss what your up to!!! :) :)
Have fun.

[jrthe3]

well had a lttle accident sunday afternoon my dad was out back round baling hay one got away from him and tock out 400 feet of mainline and about 1500 feet of 5/16 witch had about 175 taps on it have alot of work to fix was not much saveable but fitting and drop lines i think he caused more damage in one day then tree and all animals together in the last 5 years can't get to mad they are his trees and my sugar house is on his land hooked to his water and power

[royalmaple]

Dave-

I really have zero free time, just felt like doing it. I don't want to say how long till you watch the video, cause you'll watch the timer on the video.

Off to go finish the roof on the house I am building, then get some subs in there this week.

Making dreams come true for people, that's what I do.

You have to Waaaaaannnnt it.

[Maplewalnut]

Was out flagging mainline corridors yesterday near a huckleberry thicket when my sons and I heard a thunderous crash. Here a black bear must have treed himself when he heard us coming back. We had been working 20 minutes no more than 30 yards from him and never knew he was there before he decided he better get going. They might be graceful climbing trees but this one took out a lot of pine branches on the way down!

It looks like my mainline will be about 1000ft. The price of that and a tubing tool just to get started (ouch) Since I won't be on vacuum this year I am going to keep my laterals to a minimum and put about 20-25 taps on each.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dennis,

Make sure the floor is good and strong, might need some extra supports as a 2x6 evaporator and a couple hundred gallon of sap or more can get heavy really quick.

[TapME]

Just saw Revi on the local NBC network in a segment about his solar car. It was done tastefully and showed his electric solar pickup. You can catch it at WCSH6.com. Just thought I would pass on news about another trader.

[Dennis H.]

Brandon thanks for the tip, didn't even think of that.

When I built the backroom it has only a crawl space, the floor joist are 2x10 with a span of about 11', outside diamensions are 12'.
I'll see if I can put a center pier with a beam for added strength.

I priced SS double-walled flue today, ouch!! I am still looking for an other dealer to see if I can get a better price. I only want to run the double-wall from the ceiling thru the roof, just a little peace of mind.

[3% Solution]

Dennis,
I got a kit from Home Depot.
It included the roof flashing, 3 sections of pipe, the inside ceiling kit.
It works pretty good, it's been in there for 2 seasons with no problem, doesn't even get hot.
I had my sheet metal guy make two 24" long SS pipes to go from the stack to the ceiling piece.
You had mentioned about putting down some concrete on the floor, I have a wooden floor in my sugarhouse and I have an ash or spark pan right under the door. Just remember that's a lot of extra weight.
I do keep a close eye on things when I am there and haven't had any problem.
Hope this helps.

Dave

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Dennis,

There are Amish in Pa that can make that kind of stuff for a fraction of the cost. My dealer is Amish in Myersdale, PA(Henry Brenneman) and there is a young man in the community that is really good with stainless. He made me 4' sections of 10" stainless steam stack for $ 30 @ about 4 years ago and his name is Paul Beechy.

[brookledge]

I picked up my jug order that I ordered from Hillside. This order was over 1,000 containers. Sure wish I could fill and sell all in a year but the order should last me close to 2 yrs. It's hard to predict the amount I use and I like to buy as many as possible with out spending too much $ while saving on setup charges . Last year I got an order for 300 pints that I wasn't expecting so I had to place a small order for that.
I still have a long way to go for my wood supply. The round wood I have is all split. Now the slabwood needs to go in.
It's hard to believe that August is already here, Although I'm looking forward to an upcoming vac. out on the cape (Race Point). Spend the whole day on the beach and then back to the campground at night. I get a week pass to drive on the beaches so every thing but the kitchen sink goes into the truck. Best part is the fishing, strippers and blues and then onto the grill.
Hope everybody is enjoying their summer..
Keith

[Dennis H.]

Brandon thanks for the name on where to look for the SS flue, I might have to check in on that.

Dave you say that your evap is on a wood floor also. Are you saying that the only place that you have protected is right at the front by the doors?

Would using cement tile backer board work? All I am trying to do is protect the wood floor from any sparks or hot embers.
I know I would have to put something under each foot of the evap to distribute the weight over a greater area.

I guess the reasons I was thinking of pouring a thin coat of cement on top of the wood floor is to protect it from fire and also from any spilled liquids, I was looking at adding a floor drain.

Thanks again for all the help

[3% Solution]

Dennis,
Yup it's on a plywood floor, any liquids spilled (very small amounts) just drain right through the joints in the plywood or I wipe it up with a paper towel.
As far as the sparks and embers go I have gone high tech and cheap all at the same time, I bought an aluminum turkey roaster at Wal-Mart for a couple of bucks and put it right under the door. I made a guard from aluminum flashing to fit under the door and would set down into the turkey pan so the sparks wouldn't blow under the barrel. If your careful you don't get many embers falling out.
I just keep an eye out and sweep up good after I get done boiling.
The key is don't be in a hurry and pay attention.


Dave

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Stove places sell large fireproof mats to put underneath stoves which would go under the firebox in the evaporator and cover 2 or 3 feet around the front and sides of the evaporator. I would put a layer of 1" ceramic blanket and 1/2 firebrick above the mat underneath the firebox as it won't be able to stand up to all the hot coals nearly as long as if it was protected.

[maple flats]

I had mine on wood for a few seasons. Under the firebox I put 16ga galv sheet and that under lapped a larger piece that gave me about 6" extra on each side and 30" in front of the door. It worked good but I did not dare use a blower. Now I have cement and will be using a blower next season.

[Uncle Tucker]

Well I have been busy this off-season.
- Split and stacked all my wood that was lying around for the past five years.
- High temp glued new rope gasket around arch door
- Reinsulated arch door (old insulation burned out last season)
- Bought a new filter/bottler
- Traded some syrup for a flue pan steam hood
- Built a preheated for hood
- Put in VCT floor in sap house (looks awesome)
- Redoing tubing for vacuum, about ½ done
- Still have to split wood my dad gave me
- Rearranged pictures in picasa(in signature)

[Brian Ryther]

Almost there. I ran the vac feed line across the road today. Fifteen more feet and I will have the the vac connected to the entire woods. I should be able to suck some of that sap out of Theron's trees. I am now 1/2 way done with what I had hoped to accomplish this summer. I would say right on schedule. I also submited a lease draft to the new land owners of my biggest single area today. I hope he likes it. this could lead to hundreds of new taps.

[PATheron]

Brian- Does that put you at a 1000 on the ring pump? Theron

[mapleman3]

Well not much happening in Belchertown right now, I'm nursing a strained back... did a little too much with the chainsaw on some downed trees at work. The guys near sunderland can appreciate where I'm coming from. we had a lot down on our property from that microburst a week or two back.

It's ticking me off cuz I have a pile of wood that has to get cut and split asap to dry. hopefully with a little Phys therapy I can stretch everything out back to normal real soon, even hurts to walk each morning, darn back tightens up thru the night.

Have to start picking up tubing and fittings , I cant get into my north bush until Jan 15th but want to be 100% ready for that. wondering if I can get away with not using a wire since I have to take down each year. I figure if I stretch and side tie off enough... there is good grade there.....
It would save time for sure, I will try it then add it if it sags.

[3% Solution]

Hi Jim,
Not much going on here, except for rain and more rain!!
Yeah, a sore back sucks!!!
I'm nursing tendinitis in my shoulder, PT ended last Thursday.
It's bothered for about a year, thought it was time!!!
Yeah I hear ya about the wood having to be cut!!!!
But you know, it'll be there when you get feeling beter, well that's what I keep telling myself!!!
Can't you use a wire and take it down each year?
Put a loop at each end and anchor off at each end using a turnbuckle to tighten it.
I used 2x2 pressure treated post to take the sags out, mine stay in all year, but you could pull they when your done.
Hope your back gets better.

Dave

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Sorry to hear getting old is so rough on you. Some of the dealers sell mainline that is already wrapped with mainline wire like a telephone line. It would be easier to put up and take down every year.

[brookledge]

Jim
If you have a good slope you can just go with the mainline. I have seen it done that way in a few places. Use the metal mainline tension grips and keep good tension on it and it should be ok. It will sure be easier to take down.
Keith

[Dennis H.]

I got the room that I am going to use as a sugar shack cleared out down to the studed walls. I have to run out and get the lumber that I need to build the cupola and the cement backerboard that I will put down on the floor for a little protection.
Standing in there picturing the evap in there making steam makes me smile. Once I get it all done I will have to fire it up just to make some steam.


I ordered a 0-10 Brix refractometer today off of ebay, it cost a total of $34 with shipping. I will be getting another refractometer for syrup but one thing at a time.

[3% Solution]

Hi Dennis,
Hey your making progress!!
Rained here most of the day.
So I fussed around in the sugarhouse on a couple of little projects.
Keep the updates coming.

Dave

[Father & Son]

Lots of folks in this neck of the woods are getting ready for the Crawford County Fair. "Sugarmaker" is lining up workers and supplies for the maple booth. I've been busy getting things ready for the maple competition as far as lining up a judge, organizing paperwork, and asking lots of questions trying to make sure I don't miss anything. With ths being my first year chairing this committee I'm trying to make sure everything goes smooth. Chase just got done canning up some syrup and making some candy to enter in both the regular competition and also in the maple division in FFA. His candy turned out excellent so we'll see how he does.

Jim

[Al]

Well here in Pumpkin Village we have our wood ready and are still in the hunt for a few more buckets. We just got done Franklen County Field days and even with the bad weather we did all right. I'll be glad not to see another cotton candy machine for 6 months.
Right now I'm looking for a small propane range for the sugarhouse. I'm going down to the appliance store to see what I can find. My room is only 10 by 12 so a full size takes up alot of room. Cabela's has a small stove with a oven that looks alright but have to wonder how long it takes the oven to get up to temp. Does anyone here have any experiance with that style stove? I have the dual heavy duty cast iron 2 burner stove. Talk about heat. Man you can make a big pot of chilli on that sucker in no time. Love it but would like a oven.
Tired of the rain and ready to get to hunting season!

[PATheron]

Update from notheastern Pa Bulk Hobbiest Enterprises. Picking up enough stuff Saturday to put 700 more taps in behind the house. About 600 of them are cull trees and another 100 are honest so that should put me to about 2300. Then I think ive finaggled my way across the street and I think I can put 800 real nice taps over there this fall too. Thats my hope anyway. So Im hoping to have around 3000 taps coming to the sugarhouse. Got all of pretty mommy's work done except for a few finishing touches so now its go time. I cant wait to start running tube especially in the cull trees. Should look like a low lying fog theres going to be so much blue. Ill try to keep you guys posted. Want to be all ready well before season so I can be on the trader keeping up with the BIGSAP weather alerts. May expand them to cover southern Canada. Gotta try to help my brothers to the north. Anyplace that flys a flag with a maple leaf on it is top notch in my book. Gonna try to take off 30 gallons an hour with my 3 by 10 this year if dad will quit burning saw logs. Theron

[3% Solution]

PA,
Have you thought about checking into any place that may help you with your little problem!!!! :)
Where are you located in NE Pa.?
We go to Lancaster County every fall and if your not far out of the way would like to stop by.
You know I would like to add a few taps to our little operation and may just do so.
Sounds like your having fun any way!!!

Dave

[PATheron]

Dave- Im just south of Elmira New York and your welcome to stop anytime. I think I must have gone nuts becouse its all I think about. I get out in the woods and Im in heaven. When I die God wont have any trouble taking care of the sugaring when I get there. I really dont care if I make a lot of money at it, once I smell that spring air and know that the sap is going to come into that releaser like garden hoses its all worth it. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Theron I don't know what to say, 3000 taps up from 1300, wow!! I guess an upgrade of the RO is in order, or are you going to push it to it limits to see how much and how fast you can push the sap thru it before you are saying "I'm giviing it all she can got, I don't think she can't take no more."

Got more done on the "SugarShack" today. I got all the concrete backerboard down on the floor. I will put a skim coat of floor leveler on top of that when I get the place cleaned out. I first have to cut a big hole in the roof.
If the weather holds out tommorrow I will start on the cupola. I think it should take me just one day to build it, maybe part of a second.

[PATheron]

Dennis- Your going to have a sugarhouse so nice were going to have to take our shoes off to go in and boil. If you can try to get some pics so we can see what its looking like. I dont think the 3000 will be a problem to keep up with. Be honest the expense is going to be the biggest thing. Its going to be nip and tuck on whether I can afford to do it all. I ordered the main to do across the road yesterday and I have enough lateral line and fittings to do 700 but I forgot about the 1.25 to get over there and a pump line. I think Ill make it all happen. I sold my motorcycle, my bottle collection, and Im going to sell an antique truck. If its a toy and I dont need it its going down the road. Turning all my funstuff into sapline. My wife is actually loving that part. Ill get some pics once I get the tube in across the road I think you guys will really like that bush. The trees are nice and its going to be wild looking becouse the lateral mains run straight up and down. Im talking so steep you can barely work it. Should work really good. Only bad thing is its a north bush but I think it will still run good. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
North bush may actually be good. May not be running as hard early and make up for it later in the season. That will even out the work load some.
Good Luck!

[maple flats]

I poured a concrete pad at the customer entrance to the sugarhouse 2 days ago. Then I've been splitting and stacking more wood. After I finished filling all of my wood storage areas away from the sugarhouse I dropped a hemlock and cut some batten to put on the sugarhouse to cover the cracks between the boards. As I batten a section I will stack firewood against the sugarhouse along the sides where I have a 3' overhang to protect the wood. Within a year or 2 I plan to add a wood shed, pole addition to the end of the sugarhouse to hold all of my firewood.

[Maplewalnut]

For those who would like to speak to Theron before he needs professional help to control his addiction, here is his home number.

1-800-667-3727 or on your touch tone phone 1-800-MORE-SAP Just kidding of course.

Looking forward to the pics!

[Dennis H.]

I will be doing the same thing Theron, selling off stuff.
I have a bunch of coins in mint rolls that I will be selling on ebay and maybe a few extra parts for my mustang that I have sitting on the shelf. I don't think I will sell off the mustang but the way things are going you never know. This whole sugar'in thing is addictive, what was the phone number again.

Just remember that you have to have at least one hobby to do in those few moments that you are not working on the sugar'in operation.

[ennismaple]

Theron - Thompson's right about the north bush. One of ours is north facing and on days when it's too warmt o run well in our other bush it runs like crazy! It runs later in the year too.

[Dennis H.]

I got most of the cupola done, I just didn't feel comfortable on the roof when the thunderstorm startedto roll in.

I have to finish the one end and put the two doors on then it will be complete.

The last pic is how it looked right before I had to stop for the day.
The first two are what the inside looks like with the floor almost done.

[3% Solution]

Dennis,
Looking good!!!
That cement board on the floor should work well for you.
You will no doubt be very comfortable in there, nothing like being inside!
It's just comfortable!!!
You'll be expanding before you know it!!!!
Keep the pics coming!!

[hard maple]

Looks good
Top notch chraftmanship, keep up the good work.
Gabe

[PATheron]

Dennis- You crack me up. Your building a sugarhouse out of a garage about as nice as my house. Its going to be funny in a couple years when you pull out all the stops and have huge stainless steam stacks running right up through the center of things, RO room with about 10 membranes, fuel oil turbo evap. Looks awesome. Theron

[PATheron]

Guys- Im going over and picking up a bunch of stuff tomarrow and running some tube right behind the house. Going to make a sap ladder. Dont really need one but gonna do it just becouse I can. I feel kind of like a loser not having one. Got about 30 taps wont quite run into the sugarhouse make me look like a real sugar maker. Then Im heading up on the hill and eveerything is going blue. The deer are going to walk over to my property line and just think, what in THE HELL is going on here and then theyll probly turn around and trot up your guys's way and you can shoot them for dinner. Theron

[Dennis H.]

Hey Theron where do you go up there for your supplies?

Right now if I need something I have to have it shipped in from afar. Not that the drive up your way is like just going to wally-world.
I am just trying to find places closer to home that sells sugar'in stuff.

[PATheron]

Dennis- I buy everything from Richard Patterson in Sabinsville. Guys totally honest and nicest guy you ever meet. I imagine he can ship you whatever you need. He deals CDL. His number is 814 628 3751. Only thing is he goes a little overboard on the syrup thing. I think he might have kind of a problem. All he thinks about is BIGSAP and making syrup. Theron

[3% Solution]

Hey PA,
Now is this the pot coloring the kettle black?
You guys got me hooked on this tubing thing!!
We are hanging 30 less buckets next year, replacing them with tubing!
I guess it's like one stop shopping!!!

Dave

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

I can now look out my window and see some progress being made on the new sugar house. Concrete is poured, blocks are laid and the sills are on. Two stud walls are constructed and I am hoping for assistance today to get them pushed up into place. This may really happen yet!

[Dennis H.]

I got the cupola all done, well not quite. I have to attach the two doors with hinges.
I also got it painted this morning. It almost matches the siding of the garage.

I have to run to the hardware store it get a few hinges, a couple of pulleys, and some rope and that should wrap it up for the cupola.

Then I have to put the skim coat down on the floor and then put in the flue. The flue might have to wait a few weeks, boy is that stuff salty$$$$$$.

Hey Theron you might be right I will have some stainless up thru the roof, but it won't be for steam.

I don't have the time right now but I will post a few pics when I get the chance.

[Parker]

My fellow sugarmakers:
The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem, For example
Hi, my name is Parker and I am a mapleholic,,,,,
Cut up 4 cords of sugarwood today,,,

[maplecrest]

welcome parker!! my name is jeff and i ordered a new r/o

[Sugarmaker]

Hi my name is Chris, and I just spent all free moments during the last two weeks working on maple products for the Crawford County Fair..... yes I have a problem! :)

But we did receive several firsts and seconds.

Thanks to Jim Bortles (Father and Son) for keeping things in order and finding the time to put in some very competitive syrup, candy, cream, sugar, and fudge entries!

We had a great display with thanks also to Laura Dengler.

Congratulations to all the winners but special kudos to Jake Zimmerman (Tappin and Sappin) for the BEST OF SHOW, with his Medium amber syrup.
Another new comers to the competitive circuit is Gary Regelman Gary R with a first placing the novice class. Competition was tough and the judges from North East Ohio did a nice job!

Our Fair booth is off and running and the milk shakes are flying! Right Gary?

Chris

[hard maple]

Parker
I always get a kick out the stuff you post!!!

[PATheron]

3%- You gotta love collecting with the tube. I dont pick on you guys with the buckets at all though. I honestly think that a bucket on the right day is a serious performer. When I went to gravity tubing I never felt I got as much sap as the bucket. Thing is its just so much easier. Jeff- What exactly are you going to have for Ro equipment now? I had a ton of fun today. I ran a short mainline today with a ladder and picked up about 35 taps right around the sugarhouse. It looks really neat. I have the ladder right in front of my sliding glass doors so I can see it when I look out back. Itll be fun to watch it run. Now Im running all my big main lines into the back of the sugar house and into the kitchen to the releaser. Ive got a day or two worth of work there then Im heading up on the hill to start hitting cull trees. I want to get everything done a 100% on my side of the road ready to go. Then Ill go across the road. Do any of you guys remember who had the vaccuum pump that was a piston pump/lifter in the classifieds. I just wondered if it was sold or if the add was taken down. Im glad to see you guys are finally admitting you have a problem. Thats the first step to recovery. Theron

[PATheron]

Guys- I notice sometimes on here people get a little bent on some differences of opinion. For whatever its worth my motto is, Nobody has to be wrong. Syruping is fun as heck and If I have someone tell me something I know really isnt exactly right I just let it go usually and kind of sort out what works for me. It really is just a fun hobby. Theron

[Gary R]

Hi! My name is Gary. It is taking all my will power to prevent this bug from being a big problem.

Thanks Chris, you guys must put in alot of hours for the Maple association. It looks like a pile of things to handle for the fair booth. If I recall you made the biggest splash at the shake machine:) A year ago about all I knew about making syrup was that you had to boil the sap. The information from the Trader and the local sugarmakers made it happen. When I went back to the display last night I realized also I placed 4th out of 11 in the light amber class for Producers. That is exciting to be able to run with the big boy's!

Theron's got it right. Try to digest all the information you can and take out of it what you feel is best. There's a whole lot of ways to do anything. Sometimes though you have to speak your mind. Remember the gas tank?

Happy times to all:)

[3% Solution]

PA,
You have observed correctly, some folks are thin skinned, but we all have our own ways that work best for us (as you said).
I guess it's just people in general and we're not all the same.
Can imagine a whole bunch of me running around?
The wife is shaking her head saying, "Please God .....NO."
I don't see the issue with it!!

Now about the gathering from tubing, you got that right!!!!
We have 47 on tubing now (two set-ups) and I sure like it!!!!
Back up put it in the tank and gone!!!!!
One stop shopping!!!

Dave

[Jim Brown]

Hey Gary! Congratulation!!!
And you have the 'bug' you just don't know it yet

Congratulation to all the other folks!
Chris: Darlene and I will see you friday evening Between 4-5

Jim

[PATheron]

Didnt get as much done today as I was shooting for becouse pretty mommy had to go in to work. Did get some real nice things done though and had a super nice day. Clipped in a new 3/4 main this morning with Boo's headlight flashlight and ran the new lats to it. Came out nice. Then I got all the big mainlines ran into the sugarhouse kitchen. Its pretty cool to see. Theres 3 1.25" lines, a 1" line and a 3/4" line. They come into one tree from two different directions and then swoop right into the side of the building. Tomarrow Im going to clean up the sugar house, garage and lawn from all the projects and then the race is on too get the lines in and taps out. Cant wait till spring. Hope everyone is loving this weather its like fall almost down here. Number two son got his first woodchuck yesterday and shot the muzzleloader today. Looks like Ive got a good pair of hunters. Im about ready to give them the gun and tell them not to come back till I have some deer steaks. Not a one in the house. Im going to tell them if they come back empty handed their grounded. Theron

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have found that unless the weather turns sour early, a north side bush will outrun a south side bush. They don't start running as early, but the north side always stays cooler than the side side which translates into less bacteria and the holes not drying up as quickly. Key for me seems to wait a little later to tap the north side trees if they are true north side trees, they won't run as early as the south side trees, but in number of days, will run longer due to holes staying open longer if the weather doesn't go sour first.

[jrthe3]

well got all the tubing fix that my dad knocked down with a run away round bail and had to show him how round bales are like wheels and roll down hill had a nice wake up call last weekend cops woke me up some drunk run off road and ran over some tubing had to take some more down to get car out the insur. guy came out friday to look it all over guy would not belive me syrup came from trees he swears it comes from walmart but looks like it is going to be fun to get some money out of them to fix tubing

[Gary R]

Jim, thank you for your help. Being a begineer I don't have too many gadgets. Jim checked grade, verified density with refractometer vs. my hydrometer, and gave me the plastic jugs. My humble mason jars won't meet the requirements.

jrthe3, sorry about the bad luck. The only positive thing is that it didn't happen in March. Good luck.

[jrthe3]

thanks gary ya i glad to not march the worst part this was the first year i desided to wash it the woods and leave it up all year looks like is coming back to bite me in a$$

Hey theron how did you hide that sap ladder from your wife thought you were not exspanding this year or did she change her mind like mine did when i told her i could do it with her knowing or not knowing witch would she like

[PATheron]

Jrthe- I think I figured out how to expand. I was telling her I was getting ready to put out about 10,000 taps and it was going to cost about a 100,000$ and I think I traumatized her so bad that she said I could go across the road. Plus she had a bunch of projects she wanted done so I busted butt and got them all done so that got me some good bonus points. Basically I dont argue with her, ask any questions and try to basically just kiss her butt continuouslyl. Seems to work good for me. Theron

[Maplewalnut]

Went to pick up tubing this weekend. Got rolls and rolls of semi rigid, couple bags of taps, T's, Y's, forks, and some PA jugs. Figured sooner or later you have to take the leap. Will pick up the mainline and wire this weekend and then in Theron's words its GO TIME! Still not sure what I'm doing but I'll start hanging it up and go from there. Took the boys and wife along since it was a couple hour trip and made a few stops on the way home. Must have a pretty observant wife, because after an hour and a half in the sugarhouse and loading eveything up, she only asked one question when we got back in the truck....Do you have this two handed tool he talked about and how much is it? Crap, busted again!

[3% Solution]

Maplewalnut,
Naw, your not busted, she's just trying to help!!
Doesn't want to see you struggle!!!
Have fun!!

Dave

[jrthe3]

ya theron i got on the good list when i came home with here new envoy

[mountainvan]

Just got back from holiday, Holland, Chicago, and Xenia Ohio. Over 10,000 miles traveled in two weeks. As soon as I got back home I had customers come to the saphouse. Catching up on bottling and my honey do list this week.

[ennismaple]

I spent a few hours on Saturday trying to finish up a sap ladder in our new bush. There should be about 200 taps there by the time I'm finished. I managed to replace about 700' of 30 year old black mainline yesterday before the monsoons hit. Only another mile or so of that left to replace. I'm also trying to figure out work weekends with my brother so we can get another 1000 taps ready for next spring. Dad had a pretty big heart attack 4 weeks ago and he'll be not much help for many months while he heals up and gets his strength back. I'm banking on him being 100% in time for sugar making next year!

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Ennis Maple,
My Dad had emergency triple bypass surgery a couple of years ago at the end of January. He followed that with pnemonia and an infection from a kinked catheter. We were pretty worried for awhile but when he drove his JD Gator to the sugar house during early April that Spring and proceeded to dip his chicken sandwich in hot "sweet stuff" I knew he was going to be OK. This last Spring he boiled several 2 hour stints by himself. Pretty good at 86. He does complain that he can't do what he used to.....

[Jeff E]

Hi Maple Men. ( I note a gender gap in the addiction)
It has been a while since I have checked in.
Making progress here in NW Wisconsin as well, going from 350 in buckets to 2000 on Vac.

Building area is cleared, slab next week. Working on a thinning project in about 20 acres, a release cut for the maples. Also continueing with tubing on the other 20 acres.

So...here it goes...

My name is Jeff, and I am a Mapleholic...AND PROUD OF IT!!! I DONT WANT TO QUIT, ITS NOT A PROBLEM!

[PATheron]

JeffE- Good attitude! I feel just like that. The only time I feel like I have a problem is when I run out of money to buy more tube. Just think how great its going to be to see the sap run this year with that upgrade. What are the details on your new operation. Matt, Russ, Brian, and a whole bunch of guys on here are adding a lot of new taps this year, itll be a blast to see how everyone makes out with all that additional sap. Ill tell you what last year when I made the plunge it was the most exciting thing to see and hear that releaser dump the first run after all that work. Splush, Splush, Splush and your just standing there thinking what in heck am I going to do with all of that and how long is it going to keep doing it. Your going to have a blast. Just try to make it as efficient as possable. I know in my instance my dad helped me and all the sap came to the sugar house and we were still pretty busy but we were learning everything as we went. If I hadnt had Matts help down there and everyones help on the trader a good amount of that syrup would never have been made. Theron

[Jeff E]

Thanks for the affirmation Theron.
I am just trying to keep on the razor edge between excitment and nervousness. The nervousness comes from knowing the amount of work there is to get done between now and March, and also how critical it is to have a rock solid system...because if one 'link in the chain' fails, I will have big problems!

THe set up is like this: 40 acres, shedding into 2 collection points, about 1200' and 600' from the sugar house(SH). I will run vacuum (5hp ring pump) out from the SH to the collection points. I have built 6'x7' pump houses at those locations, with a 100 gallon tank and releaser in each. I will then pump sap back to the SH, through a filter, a UV, into 2-2000 gallon poly tanks. I have a 600 gph CDL RO, and will pump the concentrate into a 300 gal SS Bulk tank, and the permiate into a 550 gal poly, for cleanup use.
Concentrated sap will go into my homemade pre-heater, over my 3x8 drop flue pan, finished in a 3x4 syrup pan.
If there is time, I may rig up a blower for the evaporator...

With that said, you know what the excitement is about!!!

[PATheron]

Jeff- Holy crap man your a serious player! Are you going to have the pumps on a float must be that will pump it automatically to the SH? How many cfm is the ring pump? How much work is left on the tubing? Your going to be dishing some drum filling payback out with that operation. I just finished up stringing tube in the young stand. All I have is the tubing in the air. The main is clipped in and the lats are strung. Now Ive got to wait for the fittings to come in about a week and Ill do it up. Not sure of the number of cull trees but its one hell of a lot. Id say they average 4 to 5". The crop trees are marked at final spacing and the rest get a hole a year for Im thinking 5 years then another hard thinning once things beef. Their going in the evaperator anyway so what the hay. Im thinking with them and some more good taps Im putting out that might put me to about 2200 here at the house but a lot of them arent honest taps. Then Im hoping to get enough money around to put 800 more honest across the road. Going to try to put 3000 on my double bernard. Im forgeting the averages and shooting for the best dump rate on my releaser this year. Want to see if I can get down to about every 20 seconds on a slow day. Im not telling dad exactly how many new taps. I told him Im hitting a couple more cull trees. Ill wait and see if he notices. Theron

[sapman]

Jeff and Theron,

I sure envy you guys and your setups! Wish I had those kinds of bushes around here.

One question/comment Jeff. Are you only planning to save the 550 gallons of permeate per session? That would seem like way too little to me. I'm only running a 500gph (400~ realistically), and I usually have 600-1000 gal. of permeate for rinsing, though that's probably overkill.

All the best,
Tim

[PATheron]

Tim- Are you in an area where its predominately oak and different types of trees becouse of the soil, etc, or is it a matter of access? I know some areas down here where the soils are different youll get into oak and cherry. Seems like there are red maple most everywhere maybe theres some of that going on in your area and thats something you can capitalize on. That does stink if a guy just cant get access. Theron

[Jeff E]

Theron-my pump is a 5 HP so I have some capacity for expanding into neighboring land, if so desired. My pumps are float controlled, so I am hoping for a low maintenance situation at the pump houses. I have 20 acres (about 1/2 the woods) laid out with wire, 1/2 of that done with Wet/Dry lines and mainlines, and for the laterals, I just have put enough in for 100 taps, to see if I had everthing in order regarding equipment and understanding. I am going back to installing mainline, then laterals to get the 20 acres finished. I am hoping the thinning project is done about the same time as I finish the initial 20 acres, so I can go right in there and start tubing.

Sapman, my 550 permiate will take the initial load, and as I empty sap storage tanks I will fill those as well. I am interested in getting others thoughts on how much rinse water I will need just to clean the RO. I will also want the water for rinsing tanks down, and other things as well.

We had 40 degrees Sunday morning in the low areas, and I could see my breath this morning....time is running short!

[royalmaple]

If you get a PH meter you might be surprised how little rinse water you need. You can't rinse too much, but once the PH test the same as your incoming permeate water(that's going in) she's rinsed.

Like anything the maple companies are going to tell you what will work by like 10x, so that if you have a 600 gph ro, and rinse with 600 gallons there is NO way in the world you would have an issue. Could be as little as 50 gallons to do the trick, but they are not going to give you the minimum requirements that are so close to being on the edge.

No one wants to make a bad product, so all the rinsing in the world won't hurt anything but test it and see what it actually takes to get the ph right, then rinse a bit more and you know you are safe.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I just came to the realization that its August, and the season is only 6 months away!! Man so much to do and so little time, inventory equipment.

Sugarhouse-still standing check
Evaporator-still there check
tanks-still there check
RO-hasn't run off with Royalmaple check
pipeline-probabley on the ground check
trees-all healthy check
check book-empty and still there check
wood-still piled in the yard check

ok maybe i'm not as bad as I could be, but still lots of work to do... I hope everyone else has enjoyed the recreation of waterfront property in every town this year, and have a little more done then myself..

Andy :)

[ennismaple]

Matt's right - we've rinsed our 600GPH membrane with 600 gallons of permeate every day we use it for 5 seasons. After every season we send it back to CDL for an end of season cleaning and their tests show it is working 100%. There's likely some lesser amount of wash water we could use but why risk it.

[PATheron]

Down here in Northeastern Pa I can smell fall in the air. Trees are starting to turn, goldenrod smells like it does when the bees are making honey, and that means one thing and one thing only, GO TIME!!, NOW!!, ITS AN EMERGENCY!!!!! STRING TUBE TO EVERY FREAKIN MAPLE TREE YOU CAN GET YOUR HANDS ON!!! BIGSAP IS COMING VERY SOON!!! Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

That is a great theory Theron, are you going to come help me string tubing?? I have more trees then I have time and money to string. What would it cost me to string the last 7-8K on the bush I am in now??

Grieving Andy :|

[3% Solution]

PA,
I think you have taken a few to many volts!!!!
Yup, fall is in the air here too.
I keep looking at the slabs piled up thinking I should get going on that!!
But I keep hearing my daughter "Why didn't you wait for us to help you?"
Well they're going to get the word Saturday, September 6th is going to be the day to cut wood!!!
This weather I would take 365 days a year!!!

Dave

[royalmaple]

Andy-

It is simple, won't cost you a red cent. Just divert the local road traffic right into your bush with some jersey barriers. Then you can collect on the ins money.

I bet you can get a new bush in no time.

If you want quicker results, buy a neon beer sign and put that in the middle of the bush in an open spot so it glows, and drunks can see it from miles around. Wait for the sound of crunching metal and you'll smell money in the air.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I think they call that the back door aproach Matt!!

[mountainvan]

Bottled 30 gals of syrup today to get ready for labor day and fill orders. Sales are still quite a bit above last year and with gas down below $4 a gallon it should continue. Some trees are turning here and its getting cool at night, 40 the other morning. Hopefully winter is a long way off.

[PATheron]

3%- The weather here is just beautifull. Yesterday was like the nicest early fall day ever. Perfect for working. Andy- I wish I could help you but ive got more than I can do and pay for too. Ill tell you what youd have one heck of a sugarbush with that many trees. Cost a good bit to do it though. Be fun to see the sap run off of that many taps. Ive been putting shutoff valves everywhere on the mainlines lately and now its a matter of waiting for the fittings to come in for the cull trees than Ill go for that. Couple questions for you guys. Put the releaser in the sugarhouse and its probly going to have 3000 plus taps on it. Only have 20" under it to put a tub. Probly be a 20 gallon one. How many gallon per minute electric pump you think I need to pump it to the tanks? Im guessing its going to dump about every 25 seconds as a norm. Big thing is when the lines clear out in the morning sap is going to come fast. Other thing is bush across the road is roughly 1500' from sugarhouse. How big a dry line from my pump at the sugarhouse do I need. 60cfm pump with a bit over 2000 taps on my side on it and 800 across the road that the dry line will feed. I was thinking run 1.25 over there to feed it. Anyone have any reason to think it needs to be bigger? Theron

[PATheron]

3%- Your probly right about the volts. Im thinking with all the EMF Ive obsorbed my brain is pretty much just a smoldering cinder by now. Just running on pure instinct. Only thing going on in there is Maple, Maple, Maple. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
I ran a dry line about 1200 feet last year to a releaser that served 550 taps. It was only an inch and it worked well. I am upgrading to inch and a quarter this year as I am adding 250 taps to the line, a vacuum powered sap pump, and 6 sap ladders. I think that inch and a quarter will work fine. Only question would be future expansion possibilities across the road.
Doug

[jrthe3]

been working every day on cleaning up crash site have to get it done by end of mouth cause starting 9-1-09 i start working 12 hour days 7 days a week till end of jan. that not going to leave much time for maple work

PA what exactly is a cull tree never herd one called that befor

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Matt, I was in Maine last week and I saw a portable toilet with the name of Royal flush on it, have you been not telling us about this side line business?? I see it as a pretty good way to put your tanks, and vac.pump to good use in the off season... :)

[royalmaple]

Andy come on now. You clown. That's a good one. In order to save space and disposal fees, I run the "honey" through the evaporator to get rid of the liquids and try to condense the product so I can pay less at the disposal sites.

Little bit of pan cleaner at the end of the #2 season(no pun intended) and she's ready for sap.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I first read your post, and I said **** that matt is a smart fella, saving money on disposal. Then I realized maybe he's not so smart, with commercial paying so much, why clean the pan. I bet the #2 would add some poundage..

[sapman]

Theron,

Back to available trees. Sugar maple is dominant around here, but things are pretty flat in my immediate vicinity. If I travel 15-20 miles, things improve. But the folks I've spoken to aren't too keen on tapping, though I will keep trying. I do have access to bushes of maybe up to 200 taps, but it hardly seems worth it to set up with vacuum. So for now, I'm getting 30-70 taps on tubing where I can, to supplement my buckets.

Matt, I've never heard anyone else suggest using a ph meter. I'll have to keep that in mind.

Have a great Labor Day weekend, everyone!

Tim

[Russell Lampron]

I have used a ph meter to test the rinse water coming out of my RO. It only about 50 to 75 gallons for ph to be equal rinsing a 4" membrane.

I have seen those "Royal Flush" port a potty's in Maine too. Matt is a jack of all trades. I didn't know that he dabbled in do do disposal too.

[PATheron]

Tim- Too bad about the pitch thing. Id never even thought of that before becouse its hilly here but I can see where it causes tons of headaches. I thought down here people would be down on the tapping too but Ive kind of found otherwise when I went and asked. Im totally upfront with anyone I ask. I tell them if I tap them it will affect the timber value best of my knowledge but I offer them .50 a tap and tell them Ill be responsable tapping and respect their property and usually people are good with it. I found one lady that thought financially it would be good for her being she was cutting back on her work becouse of getting older and she really didnt want the trees cut. Ive found a lot of people hesitant to have the trees cut are totally good with it so I just try to be fair and honest and just leave it up to them. No hard sell. Jrthe3- A cull tree is one that will be removed as you thin your sugarbush to improve the future or existing crop trees. A mature sugarbush contains trees with roughly 30 to 40' spacing between them with large crowns. You kind of have to do the removal of the other trees gradually and what I am tapping are trees that will be removed some time in the future and used as firewood in my evaperator. Some are real small but with the high vac and high syrup prices might as well tap them. Theron

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Theron, we call tapping a cull tree, drying it on the stump. I save pipe from the bush for just that purpose. If I am thinning next summer lets say the 2 years before I thin I will put say 6 or 8 taps in a 16" tree, in a sence girdling it. you would be surprised how dry the wood will get with two seasons tapped like that..

[brookledge]

Matt
How many gallons of that "honey" can you get through the filter press before it plugs up?
Keith

[royalmaple]

Keith-

Problem I have is not it getting plugged up, but I find that when I run the #2 season through the press I really blow papers. You can get into a mess when you build up too much pressure.

It just comes with skill and lots of practice.

[super sappy]

Try two ply papers

[royalmaple]

:-)

I thought the two ply was so you could use the other side?

[royalmaple]

T minus about 10 hours to the commencement of "Operation Devistation"

Some serious wood is going to be laid down out back in the brush. Gonna make a sugarbush out of her.

Full weekend of nothing but, waaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa baaahhhh baaaahh, crunch crunch snap.......Timmmmmmberrrrr.

Shooting for well over 200 cords on the ground by monday night.

Had to recruit in the heavy hitter from across state lines. Video's to follow. I'm hoping to get alot of before and after shots. Can't wait. Then hopefully in a few years have something instead of alot of garbage choking out my maples.

I'm shooting for the controlled hurricane look when we are done.
Stay posted for updates and you might see a bulletin shoot across your TV screen.

[sapman]

Theron,

One farmer I asked, who says he has 90 acres in that hill of mostly maples, said he didn't want to hurt the trees. I tried to assure him conservative tapping is OK, but to no avail. I do need to get back to a horse farm, where the wife told me they'd never log the woods, and tapping was fine by her. Need to talk to her husband, but I'm not too confident in the percentage of maples in their woods.

How few taps in a bush would you guys consider hooking vacuum up to? I've heard down to 2-300, but that would probably mean using an old dairy pump, I suppose. I like to install proven equipment, so a liquid ring would be my choice, but the payback may not be there without several hundred taps.

Tim

[Dennis H.]

I got some more done on the sugarshack this past week.
I got the flue put in and hooked up to the evap, looks cool!
I put in a couple of shelves in the corners, one to hold a container that I will use to feed sap into the pan, and the other shelf for a nice place to set things that I may need to set down.
The floor turned out ok, it is hard to make a skim coat look really good.
I also got the rope rigged up so I can open and shut the doors on the cupola, well shut the doors anyway. I have a lenght of pvc pipe to nudge the doors open and then I just pull on the ropes to shut them.

I have to rebrick the evap now that in is it's new home and man do I need to give it a new coat of high-temp paint.

I also have to clean up the kitchen area now that all the construction is done.

[3% Solution]

Dennis H.,
I do believe you are looking GOOOOODD!!
Your going to like this inside boiling!!!!

Dave