Brick and Block arch

[OCVTmaple]

Hi im new here and i am starting to run my own maple operation.
I was wondering about building an arch out of red brick and lining it with fire brick to keep crumbling down. I am also curious about how the pans will sit on the arch and how I should construct it so it will work. It is a 2x4 flat pan that will be on top with a pre-heat pan on top. I was thinking about lining fire brick all but a 1/4 of an inch to the top and using that as a self so to speak to hold the pans.
OPEN TO SUGGESTIONS
Thanks

[TapME]

We have been three years on a block arch. Blocks just placed dry with red brick to line the arch. It works well and has made more syrup than I thought. This is the year we build a metal arch and a covered lean too. If you have any questions post them and someone here will help you.

Welcome to the site

[WF MASON]

I'd start with an angle iron frame 2"x2" or 3"x3" material welded togeather for the top rail for the pans to sit on, that will get you your length and width, you could have a frame for your door made out of the same angle and welded to the end of frame, then mount your door to that. Then block it in to make your arch.

[NedL]

Sounds like you're idea with the firebrick as a shelf will work. I am going to try the same thing next year. I just used blocks with no brick and hung my steam pans from the edges and ladled fom pan to pan. I just dry set them because I dismantled it after the season.

The blocks definitely got crumbly without the bricks. Here's a pick of my setup last year. I did it as inexpensively as possible, but got great boiling rates.

[SeanD]

The brick and block arch is a great way to get started. Like TapME, I've been in the game for three seasons using concrete blocks for the arch and a combination of red brick and fire brick to line it. I don't recommend making the arch itself out of red brick for a few reasons.

Red brick can't be dry fit the way concrete block can and you're going to want to dry fit it. Even after a few course it will be too wobbly to carry the weight of your pan with an inch of sap in it, whereas three course of concrete block puts you up 24" and it's solid. It's also a lot easier to level concrete blocks.

I think dry fitting it together will be the way to go because it will allow you to make little (or big) tweaks and changes from boil to boil, season to season. Knowing how this maple bug grabs people, you're highly likely to expand or at least modify your setup to get a better boil rate, cleaner burn, etc. If you mortar the thing up based on what you have right now, you'll have to chisel it apart to make even the smallest change.

One permanent thing I would definitely recommend is pouring a nice level slab for your arch to sit on or at least packing down 3-4 inches of stone dust. It is a bear to try to level off a spot of frozen ground in February and you would be amazed at how a fraction of an inch off level will create deep and shallow ends in your pan.

For sitting your pans on the arch, the welded angle iron idea is pretty sweet if you can weld. If not, lay some gasket on the top of the blocks for the pan to sit on. That way you'll seal out a lot of smoke and get a better draw toward your preheater and stack.

Spend this summer and fall tinkering around with it and definitely post your questions here. I've learned so much from all of these folks in just a few months. Good luck.

Sean

[Haynes Forest Products]

NedL
Looks better that my first rig. You said that you laddle pan to pan here is a sugestion on how the old rigs used to get sap from pan to pan set each pan higher than the next one lets say one fire brick higher and then the next one 2 bricks higher and put a small valve that runs into the lower pan. That way you can regulate the flow from top to bottom pans Cheap way to have fun good luck

[TapME]

here are some pics of our arch, gravel base with dry laid blocks and red brick to insulate the blocks. It arches up in the back to a 1'' under the flues. I used insulation with no backing as a gasket and it worked fine. Masons idea of a angle rail that you could adjust to make the plans level is a good idea.
Just in case some of you forgot about the winter here is a pic of where the evaporator went.(Back of the shed is 7' tall) Just the other side of the wood shed. Hope the pics help.

[JohnM]

I dry laid block my first two years, then laid block on a footer for my current setup. Ceramic insulation has kept the masonry in great shape going on 4 years. Pictures link below signature.

[emo]

I used the solid 4" cap block to create a solid top for the block. I gives a nice solid top to the block and makes for a decent work surface.

[NedL]

Thanks Haynes FP. That's a great suggestion. I'll see if I get some time this fall to experiment.

I have it 2 blocks high now, I was considering doing 3 to get more fire under there. Any thoughts? I will probably expand to at least 4 steam pans next year to get it done a little faster. My 3 year old wood hauler gets distracted.

[Haynes Forest Products]

NedL
You can get SS pipe nipples and cut them in half and have them tiged on and use some 4.00 valves from Home Depot and have a sweet set up cheap. ball valves can stand the heat. If you keep the pans tight together the valves will last forever. You syrup pan doesnt have to set down in the arch it will boil fine setting up on the lip of the blocks and that way you can draw off into you hydr. cup. if you check the syrup ASAP you will get a better product.
I have the most fun running my rig when its balls to the wall and its humming along and your checking and changing. Now i know how the old train enginers felt when they were getting things going and hauling the mail.

[Sugarmaker]

I am not a expert here but this subject is of intrest to me since my neighbor Keith Talbot is currently building a red brick arch with fire brick lining. He is just about done with the arch and the pans and stack will be the next projects for him. It will take about 32 or 36 inch wide and 7 foot long pans. If I get pictures I will try to post.

Chris

[OCVTmaple]

this has been a great help. I haven't been on for a few days cause of work. I think i am going to go with a similar setup to TAPme. maybe later on i will mortor all of it or upgrade but for a new setup with a lack of funding i will keep what i got now for materials and learn as i go.
Thank you all

[Maine4me]

What do you guys use for a door on your brick/block arches? I tried patio blocks, leaning blocks and other things but was alot of work to get the draft right and then a pain to move to load wood.

[WF MASON]

You could use a homemade steel frame and door or a door off a junked wood stove or a large chimmey cleanout door and morter it into the arch , just like a mason would do to the chimmey. It would seem like you'd need some kind of frame there to have your door pins sit on and swing.
Cleanout doors are thin, I'd bolt some blanket inside it if you used one, that would be the easy fix. Just a thought.

[jrthe3]

when i built my steel arch i built the door out of 1/4 steel plate lined it with the 1/2 thick fire brick then framed the out side with 2x2x1/4 angle iron so it held the bricks in it has ben going for 5 years with out any prop

[TapME]

I used a piece of sheet metal and bricks on the bottom for the draft and it seemed to work well and was cheap.

[NedL]

So I've been reading a little about steam hoods on the trader. From what I read, a steam hood would be no help except for preheater use? Is this correct? I thought maybe it would help kepp some heat in. On second thought, my steam pans are all the into the arch, so I guess there really wouldn't be any usable heat retention?

Any advice out there?

Thanks

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

NEDL

used mainly for preheater, maybe also to gather the steam and send it up to the copalo

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

The things to remember about steam is if you can see it it has lost most of its energy..................WHAT? OK ill explain your evaporator with a steam hood has most of the same properties of a steam boiler except it doesnt build (high) pressure it does build very low low low pressure. If you were to look inside a steam engine or steam boiler you wouldnt see any steam thats because its under high pressure. High pressure steam carries alot more heat (BTUs) than steam that you can see. Steam that you can see is steam that has condensed giving up most of its heat turning to water vapor. So if you have a steam hood over your pans you will keep more of the heat over the boiling sap. Im told that cold drafts pushing the heat off the boiling sap will slow down the boiling rate so it stands to reason that a steam hood is a good thing not only to keep the heat up over the sap but also to keep it out of the sap shack. I would think you would be better off boil sap out side with a hood than without. Does water boil quicker with a lid on the pot?

[NedL]

OK now I'm not sure what do do. If I find the time I'll fashiona hood out of aluminum and experiment. I'll let you know the results with and without.

[Keyes Hollow Gold]

I've seen a lot of pictures of block arches, but no where have I seen of view of where the smoke stack plugs in and how the blocks are set up. Does anyone have any picks of this?

[TapME]

check out my pics to see how I did it. Any questions fell free to ask.