Sap Ladders

[Maplewalnut]

Alright don't crucify me, I am probably going to have a lot of tubing questions the next few weeks as I try and layout some sort of design. First, how high of an elevation change can sap ladders realistically handle? My property is divided by a stream bed which sits about 40ft lower than my sugarhouse. I'll have plenty of slope from the back of the property getting sap to the stream but then how do I get it to the sugarhouse? Probably another 40 yards from the stream to the back of the shack. Looking to start small, probably two runs of 50-75 taps each for a total of 100-150 taps altogether.

Mike

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Total lift on sap ladders is limited by atmospheric pressure. In theory the most lift would be about 29 feet. In reality, less than that. Can you operate some form of a pump to lift the sap 40 feet plus the 40 yards to the sugar house? Is it feasible to put a releaser and large tank in the low spot and then pump the sap with a sap pump to another storage tank at the sugar house?

[Jeff E]

I am assuming you are installing a vacuum system, because that is the only way a lift or ladder will work.

I agree with 'Mr Thompson' in that a lift is limited, and your height is to great.
You will need a releaser somewhere, so you might as well set up a remote releaser location, in the creek bottom.

I am putting together 2 such systems this summer as well. One Vacuum pump, with an air line running to each releaser. A electrical line going to provide power for a small float controlled pump, and a sap line for the sap to get pumped back to the sugar shack.

Great adventure, Eh?

Jeff

[Jeff E]

I put out wire for a wet/dry lines a few weeks ago. I just built the little pump house that this will be dumping into and one of my wet lines is coming in a bit low. I don't have my releasers yet (Horizontal), but I am concerned that once the tank is in place with the releaser over it the wet line might be below the insert point on the releaser....yikes! Other than raising the wires for the wet/dry lines (about a 1000' run, then having to raise mainlines off of that:eek: ) are there any thoughts on lifting the sap from the wet line?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jeff,
I have a couple of lines that come to my releaser below the level of the storage container. I built a PVC manifold that the sap comes in to and on the low point of the manifold, I put a connector for 1'' plastic pipe. I attached plastic pipe here and to the releaser manifold. Releaser sucked the sap right up, in one instance about 3 feet. I do wonder if when I add sap ladders further out on my mainlines if this will decrease the potential lift??? I am considering taking my 3pt backhoe to this location and lowering the storage vat about a foot into the ground. Another solution might be a shallower storage tank.

[Jeff E]

THanks for the reply. Is yours a wet/dry line? I am thinking if I dump my wet line into a manifold but have the dry line running out over this to keep vacuum going out to the mainlines, I will not get enough pressure variation to lift the sap.

Just thoughts form a rookie with no experience....I may be wrong.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

What about using a belly releaser with a pump?? I noticed you said you havn't got the releaser yet.. My belly releaser stands shorter then the 1500 gal tanks it dumps into..

just a idea..

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jeff,
I have two wet lines coming into my manifold. One is strictly a wet line system-3/4 inch with about 70 taps on it. The other is a wet/dry line. I put an 18'' riser on the top of the home built manifold and ran my dry line off that. My location is such that I have to use a mechanical releaser so pumping up to the storage tank would be problematic.

[Jeff E]

I'm not sure I am getting this right, so here is what I am hearing.

You have a 3/4 mainline and a wet/Dry dual line coming in below your releaser input level. You are running those 3 lines into a manifold near the releaser, and your dry line comes into the manifold near the top, and your wet line and the other 3/4 line come in in the middle. On the bottom of the manifold you have a fitting that goes out to a 1" pipe that goes upwards to a elevation that will go into your releaser.

How many total taps feed into your manifold?

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jeff,
Gotta go bale hay. I'll try to explain better this evening

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jeff,
In my situation I have a total of 525 taps coming in. There are 75 on a 3/4 inch line about 300 ft long. This is only a wet line. The other 450 are on an 1and 1/4 inch line with a dry line. All of these connect to a manifold I glued up with 4 inch PVC. The wet lines attach into the top half of the PVC. From the top of the PVC I ran 1and1/2 inch PVC straight up 18" to an elbow. I attached the dry line there that goes with my 1 and 1/4 inch wet line. From the bottom corner of the manifold I have a 1" plastic line that goes up to the single vertical releaser that is positioned on the top of a 350 gallon storage tank. The manifold is positioned about 6" off the ground. I had no problems lifting the sap to the releaser. Drawback is that I can't let the sap flow by gravity into the tank.

Hope this helps!

[Jeff E]

Mr T, your patience is extaordinary!!!

Thanks for taking the time to spell it out for me. That will be the path I take, as I will have about 300 taps coming in on my W/D line that is low. I will size accordingly.

Thanks again-Good Hay day? NW Wisc has had a good year. A friend who makes hay made about as many squares in his first crop as he got all of last year.

Hope it is as good for you.

Jeff

[Haynes Forest Products]

Jeff E what part of NW wisc. are you from Chuck

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jeff,
Make sure you put shut off valves in all lines going into the manifold. When you shut off the vacuum, you will shut the valves off so that sap does not fill the manifold, freeze and break it. I learned the hard way!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Just when I thought it was safe to go to bed and not worrie about my equipment TTF tells me i have to shut all the manifold valves. I was under the impression that sap would free flow thru the releaser and not be a problem. I didnt close mine last year and didnt have a problem. I do know that if you close a ball valve it will pop the side out due to the sap in the center of the ball. Did you have the flappers stick shut? Why didnt the sap flow into the belly tank? What manf. is your releaser? Thanks Chuck

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

HFP,
When it was warm enough, I had that happen. The sap in the lines had enough head to push sap up into the releaser. However, I shut the vacuum off one night at about 28 degrees and forgot to shut one valve into the manifold. Enough sap ran in from that line to freeze it solid and break it. Remember this manifold is located below the releaser so it will not empty by gravity into the releaser.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thanks TTF Im going to bed and Im going to sleep better.

[paul]

If you drill a hole in the exit side of the ball valve you won`t have to worry about freezeing

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thanks paul i never thaught of that i use the white PVC type and i guess you could shut the valve and with a small drill put a hole in both sides as a drain

[Jeff E]

Jeff E what part of NW wisc. are you from Chuck

From the Spooner area. Just a little south of Gods country, turn right at the sunset!

[paul]

Yoy just need to drill one side of the ball, you want the inside of the ball to drain out so it doesn`t freeze inside.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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