June Journal 2008

[brookledge]

Well Spring is gone and the heat of summer is just around the corner.
I myself have been busy splitting wood in between all the other activites (kids sports that take alot of time). No big plans for next year other than maybe a new vac. pump and build a sap ladder.
Keith

[PATheron]

Keith- Are you getting a liquid ring? Theron

[PATheron]

Guys- Im not allowed to expand this year becouse of what my wife says she'll do to me. She's being very negative and uncooperative. What are the rest of you guys planning to do this year. I want to hear all expansion details. Theron(Tarrian, Thebigsapzaroon)

[markcasper]

Patheron, Your R.O. just ordered me a twin brother last week.

[PATheron]

Mark- Your going to love that. You just cut your wood cutting by 75%. You got the cdl?

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

That ain't good when momma tells you bad things will happen/Better wear a cup at night...

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Or better yet, just listen to mamma so you can ENJOY your nights! LOL!

[Haynes Forest Products]

So telling my 3rd wife that my 4th wife hasnt been born yet is the wrong thing to saw as i flip threw my Maple Pro catalog!!!!!

[PATheron]

Kevin- I know what you mean. She seems real sweet and everything but the devil is just under the surface just ready to come out. Im going to do syrup next year the same as Im doing now but I am going to do a lot of line improvements on my current system. I did some thinning and I want to revamp some lines. Im lining up taps for next year though to put in after season. Right now I have permission to put in around 2500 new taps and im working with a guy to get permission to do maybe another 2000. Im not sure what ill end up getting for sure but im pretty sure next year I should be to 4000 anyway for the following spring. I cant wait to see the sap from that. Id like to get 3000 of those 26" taps on my double bernard and see what happens. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Yup! Big ideas swirling through my head the last couple of months. Maybe going from 1500 to 2700 taps. Maybe going to vacuum on the whole shooting match (currently on 800). Ordered a Lapierre RO yesterday. Have the sheetmetal for the roof of my new sugarhouse lying in the front yard. Have about 1/2 the logs cut and sawed into lumber for it... Now if my 58 year old body can keep up with my 25 year old mind.
Doug

[PATheron]

Doug- Do you really think you might do that? That would be something else. I have these big ideas too but then I start to wonder if it is really feasable to do what im thinking or not. Im pretty sure im going to just go for it and see what happens. YOu only live once. I heard from a couple guys lately that NY is going very proactive with the syrup. Im hearing that the state may start to kind of subsidize the tap lease rent. Say you give so much per tap and then the state goes so much. I wish theyd do that down here so it was pretty big money for the landowner. If they do im going to start tapping whole valleys. If they do that where you live it could really help you get trees bigtime. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
It isn't much more than you did last year. My herd of 50 dairy cows left here Friday so hopefully I will have a couple more hours each day to play in the woods. My farm is 600 acres with 65 tillable so that means the rest is rocks, trees, and beaver ponds. At this point I will concentrate on tapping my own. I am also considering working with the local Amish community. Ihave 1200 buckets, spouts and covers....Some of them have trees and a family workforce...I have a 550 flatbed ford truck....Maybe a deal can be worked out. What do you think?
Doug

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

BIGSAP= My wife tells me to "get rid of it" about every other month. I don't see no money she says and i say i don't see any help either i say/so were opposite pages=but that is the way it goes. Do what you have to do and their either with you? or they Ain't??? Flip the page and start all over if you have too!!!

I believe the 3,000 tap rating is for canadian taps= all 6-8" trees and if you have over 2,000 to 2,500+?? taps out on 10-18" Dia. trees i'd imagine the Double will have a hard time keeping up. I know mine dumped every 17-18 seconds on just under 1,800 taps before so with higher Hg and more taps coming in you'd want to be there babysitting it while the BIGSAP was coming in/otherwise your Double may not be able to handle the flow and dump sides fast enough???

[mapleman3]

I wonder why my Wife gets mad when I introduce her to friends as my 1st wife??? Hmmmm

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Funny as heck mapleman3=A month ago when i was out in Nevada at the "tables" playing a little Black Jack-this guy that though he was a clown and probably had a little liquid Scotch in him to boot was trying to hit on one of the Pit boss ladies/saying you look just like my 5th Ex-wife/Even trying to hit on the lady that was playing 3rd base. Anyways got in on the table's end and he was now playing 3rd. base on the table and didn't we(3 other ladies+ me) razz him up for letting the dealer bet us like 5 hands in a row. At $10-15 a flop of the cards it adds up fast. (I Was ahead in good shape until he came along/Left ahead anyways thats all that matters i guess) after about 20 minutes of him rambling on non-stop and thinking the casino had probably seen enough they politely asked him if he needed an escort back to his room? he said i was headed anyways.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

ordered my lapierre releaser couple weeks ago from the guys here at maple trader. got to remember sometimes it is easier to get forgiveness than permission

RICH

[PATheron]

Doug- Id do what you can afford and handle. That may be a good deal for both of you becouse they have lots of help and if they want to sell you the sap thats a good deal. If your retiring from milking youll have lots of time to be there and do a lot. I think this next year should be big money in the barrell again with the north having such a bad year this year. Im just taking the money I make this year and paying for equipment. That way if the prices go down at least these big years will pay for my setup. Then if the stuff is payed for and the prices go down Ill still make some money. Governor- I know that 3000 of the taps im running will probly be too much for the double. If I do get 3 on one bush Ill get a larger releaser. It would be neat to see it dump fast like that though. I shouldnt complain about my wife at all, I was just picking on her. She let me spend a lot last year and put up with me working all the time. The deal was though if I bought the ro I couldnt expand till things were paid down. Deals a deal, shes my partner and we're a good team. Theron.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
I believe in the pay as you go theory. Put 10 grand in the woods this year and sold a bit better than that in bulk. I'll still make a wee bit on the retail after all expenses are out. I am looking at the big expansion this year. At my age, I really have a limited number of years to get my money all back out of it. Figure I have about 10 years to sugar it full bore and then begin to back off some.. my Dad is 87 and still boils for an hour or so on occasion. He is an old sugarmaker and won't quit until he evaporates.
Doug

[maplecrest]

doug , i sold my dairy herd in 87 and went to beef to keep the pastures open. and cranked up the maple. and have never looked back. i say i have 10 years left, and am told that i will evaporate by my family.i built mine by a yearly budget that i stuck to every year. and still do. have never had to borrow any money for my upgrades. dont get caught up in your neighbors, they wont be there when you need them. think on what you can handle with the help you can count on!!. i found this year that 5000 taps was all i could handle alone.

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Jeff,
The thought of dealing with the neighbors would be a temporary thing. I would have the Amish families tapping trees on their own farms and I would buy the sap. It would enable me to produce more syrup before I have my whole operation set up...make more efficient use of the RO etc.
I am hoping to get to the point where I can handle 2500 to 3000 by myself. The fact you handle 5000 is encouraging. Makes it seem possible.
Doug

[ennismaple]

I've got plans to replace a bunch of 20+ year old black mainline and add up to 1500 new taps for next season. Time, energy & money...

[markcasper]

Pathern, Yes a CDL. And since you were all talking about wives, mine INSISTED that it get ordered in time for next year. We have the money and after battling through years and years of no help, and now displaced vacation days from my job in town, the answer was simple.

I just found out beofre I ordered it that a new chiropractor neighbor of ours (right across the fence) wants me to tap his trees. Theres around 400 taps there and some can be ran right into mine if I extend the mainline. He wants his taxes lowered and tapping will accomplish that.

I have another guy that sells me small amounts of sap and he asked if he could tube some of his woods which would bring in another 2-300. Plus I have at least another 5-600 in our woods that have never been tapped.

I don't plan on tapping several hindred more for a few years. I need to add a small addition on for the RO this summer. Recently, I found out that my syrup self- serve sales shed is being ordered off its location. That courtesy of my sister. Thats a whole nother topic.

[Russell Lampron]

Mark it is great to hear that you finally made the decision to buy an RO. You will be happy that you did. Like the rest of us that have them you will be wondering why you didn't do it sooner.

What is this lower tax bill because the trees are being tapped? I wish it was like that here in NH.

[ennismaple]

If it's like here in Ontario - your property taxes for land that is farmed is 25% of the residential rate. No difference if you lease it or farm it yourself.

[markcasper]

Russell, Its nice to have encouragement from those such as yourself to finally get an RO. Its still scary somewhat, but reading everyones posts on here makes it easier. It boiled down to a time factor and the fact that I need to sustain my current production with less hours available.

Wisconsin has the thing called "use value" in terms of valueing land that is used for farming. Basically you are taxed a rate depending on what its used for, rather than the development value of the land. In other words and especially around bigger cities, Milwaukee, Madison, Green Bay, Eau Claire, etc. farmers were getting shafted in taxes the closer they were to town, due to its "development" value. The Farm Bureau was instrumental in getting such legislation passed at least 10 years ago or so. It lowered the taxes for farmers considerably, while raising it elsewhere to make up for it. Alot of liberals are teed off and have been fighting it ever since. It is designed to keep land in agriculture, to help curb the loss of the more than 30,000 plus acres a year in this state.

If you own woodland and are not actively farming, you pay full rate due to it being considered "recreational" property. So many have decided to fence off the woods and rent it to a farmer for grazing, which is not a good thing if you want future trees. Tapping trees in the woodlot also qualifies the land, but there are some criteria. You cant just tap 5 trees and get the tax rate lowered.

[mapleman3]

Finally got to moving the arch into the sugarhouse and.... almost an uh-oh!! that thing made it through the door with 3/4" to spare.. whew, I had made a footing for the front of the arch the other day, so I wheeled the arch in (by myself of course)I never wait for help....had to go over the front lip up 2" then in she went. I had bought some 4 wheel dollies from Harbor freight that hold 1000lbs each so they made moving it a breeze... we used them when MapleNut picked up Alice.. she rode right up his trailer fully bricked with not much trouble.

Anyway, I will level her some more in the back later, now need to move stuff around to make room... sure takes up more room in the sugarhouse.

I have to take a roof truss out the stack lines up dead center, but with the pitch I have I won't have anything to worry about, metal roof and purlins will hold everything as is...

[Russell Lampron]

Mark,

That sounds a lot like the Current Use system that we have in NH. In NH you don't have to farm it or use it for agricultural purposes. I have all but 2 of my 69 acres in Current Use. It saves me a bundle on taxes. If it weren't for the program I would have to sell my land because I wouldn't be able to pay the taxes on it. For almost 35 years my property was in the Current Use program and we didn't do anything at all with it. It was part of a dairy farm that my grandfather and father owned and has been in the family since 1904.

[3% Solution]

Mapleman3,
I don't think I would take out a truss!!
Header it off where the stack goes through.
That would be the best way to do it.
By doing it this way you will maintain the entegraty (??) of the roof.

Dave

[3% Solution]

Hi all,
Haven't been here in a while.
Summer stuff happening; fires and building projects for people.
Had 5 cord of Hemlock slabs delivered this morning.
Now, with what I have, it should be enough for almost three years.
I would like to get right into cutting that stuff up but the bugs are not very friendly right now.
Hope everyone has a great summer, enjoy!!!!!!

Dave

[mapleman3]

Oh it will still get headerd across, I wouldn't totally not have something there.... Shouldn't be too bad depending on if I downsize the stack size(another thread)

[maple flats]

I'll have to check with New York to see if they offer any savings similar for ag. My taxes are real high and are classed as abandoned ag, but I have the taps on my woodlot, and 4.5 acres of blueberries on another piece. But NY is known as the tax and spend state, they might not offer ANY savings.

[Sugarmaker]

All Traders,
Should have the wood shed cemented within next two weeks. Cement guy (Brian) stopped and quoted the job tonight. Some minor grade tuning and it should be ready to pour. Adding a side walk in front to keep folks out of the mud a little too. Both should be nice additions to the sugarhouse.

Syrup sales have fallen off about when the gas prices went up. Folks aren't traveling quite as much. I am planning to go to a local event over July 4th and set up maple shop.
Priced a new truck today F250 loaded. Wow! glad I was setting down. Sure would be nice, but not sure I want to trash another new one:)

Maple confections work shop this weekend in Albion PA. This is the second work shop in the series. First one was a great hands on training experience in making candy cream and learning about invert sugar and why batches fail.
Shirley Bilek dropped off some invertase and I have a half gallon mixed up to "doctor" some syrup for candy and cream.

Checked the bees Saturday and put on some honey supers for the "spring" honey flow. Locust is just starting to open and that makes really light honey that doesn't sugar for a long time. One colony had no bees in it, may have been the dreaded Colony Collapse Disorder?? I have gathered 4 swarms within the last two weeks. One from inside a large catalpa tree ( some chainsaw magic ) and the others were from swarms on tree branches with in easy reach.

Garden is planted. Small but about right size for us.

Had a big bon fire last night from all the branches in the yard, plus pallet rems and tonight tore down the fire pit and will move it to a new location in the yard to be ready for some serious fires on the summer weekends.

All pallets are hauled home for the 2009 season. Anyone feeling foxy, to cut 10 cord of pallets, can stop in any time.:) Hope to have the wood shed filled by mid July or sonner?

Had a nice visit with jrthe3 (Boyd) and Gary R. Gary is planning some positive changes to the MSS (moblie sugaring system).

We have a lot of work to do in our maple association to get ready for local fairs this fall. We also have a seminar on vacuum pumps coming up some time this year?

Since we are now empty nesters Cheryl and I have been free to roam about the country side. We are looking forward to the Potter Tioga PA maple tour early October.

We have another grandchild ( our 4th ) due around Thanksgiving time so several trips to Columbus are in our future to see our daughter, son inlaw and their addition into this old world.

Hope things are well with all!

Chris

[mapleman3]

Heck of an update Chris :)
So you burn 10 cord of free pallets?? I have been thinking of adding in Pallet wood as I cut the log length, that way it is mixed in as I take from the woodpile.
I should start gathering them now also !!

It will be a huge difference for me boiling this year with wood.. I have beem SPOILED !! the last 4 years on oil.. lemme tell you SPOILED !! to be able to sit back watch my favorite tv shows while boiling, catching up on the trader while glancing over at the digital thermometer I set up at the drawoff but in good sight!! If I had an auto drawoff , I would have fallen asleep :o no chance of that now.. At least I will be WARM !!!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jim,

I only fire every 10 minutes, so it won't be that much more work. LOL!

[jrthe3]

have been cutting alot of wood had to cut down two big road side maples township said the where to close to road so lost four taps but plan on adding 200 for 09 season also plan on putting the hole bush all 650 on vacuum sucking it all to the sugar house no more gathering for me hope it works out trying to talk the wife into a filter press and new canner use the reason that it would make it go faster and i could spent more time with her and our new son born at the begining of the 08 season i think my reason was the not the right angle to use i think she like her time alone when i am at sugar house still can use all the vacuum advice you can give started running dry lines the other day and set post for sap ladders over driveway and cattle lane lot of work and money hope bulk prices stay up then this will be worth doing if not it could meen the end to marage number 2

[peacemaker]

mapleman3 i burn a combo of cord wood and pallet wood when i stack i put one row of cord next row pallet and so own that way as i work into the pile i have picking from both piles ..

[mapleman3]

I like that idea. Softwood always makes for a good hot fire. Mixed in with hardwood its the perfect blend!

[Sugarmaker]

Jim, a cord of pallets will only make about 10 gallons of syrup due to the soft wood mix and the ammount of "air" in a cord of this stuff. So it takes up a lot of room.

I do have to spend money on gas to go get them too.
Good luck with the wood.
Chris

[PATheron]

Chris- You were talking about getting a new truck. I was at work the other day and my buddy pulled in in a truck he had just bought. It was a 2005 chevy 2500 standard cab with around 30,000 miles, fully loaded with standard transmission and v8 engine and he gave 14,000$ for it. Here at least used trucks are dropping in price like crazy. Probly with these gas prices theyll just get cheaper and cheaper. Might get a heck of a truck for not much money. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Theron at the dealership that I work at we just sold a 2007 F150 crew cab 4x4 with 30000 miles on it for $19,995 and it sat on the lot for over a month at that price. On the other side of the coin we sold a 2003 Subaru Outback wagon with 50,000 miles on it for $15,995 and we only had it a week. Both vehicles were nice and clean too. It wasn't like the truck was a clam bucket. Gas prices have everybody scared and rightfully so.

[Maplewalnut]

Mapleman3-

Congrats on getting your new rig under cover....eyeing up your door when I was there, I wasn't quite sure you were going to make it without some remodeling!
I hear you about waiting for help. When I got home, I put the 2x6 on dollies I had and then wheeled it down the trailer ramp. I didn't calculate the momentum a 2x6 rig gained coming down a 3 foot ramp. Almost put me through the back garage wall before I finally stopped it. LOL

Mike

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Maybe if the gas price's hit $5-7 or more a Gal. The price's of a Harley will double? Better stock up now.

Soon the bigger rigs that get 15 MPG=The dealerships will have to pay you for buying them??

Anyone got a fully enclosed cab for a Harley for sale? Better get my training wheel set first.

[peacemaker]

lol try to buy a hybrid 3 month waiting list for a prius

[mapleman3]

Thanks Mike, It really needed to be inside... not outside the sugarhouse, at least now it's out of the weather :)

Now the fun stuff begins... start thinking of bricking and insulating the arch

[royalmaple]

Had a nice day yesterday. Got to go see Jerry 802maple and deliver some fine quality product in exchange for a piece of paper. Very happy about that.

Then went to deliver a vacuum pump system to Brian Ryther. Really nice to meet you and your family. Here is a picture of the newest edition to the Ryther family:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/royalmaple/Liquid%20Ring%20Vacuum%20Pump%20Systems%20for%20Sa le/Picture280.jpg

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff175/royalmaple/Liquid%20Ring%20Vacuum%20Pump%20Systems%20for%20Sa le/Picture279.jpg

[PATheron]

Brian- Ive got one thing to say about that, BIGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!SAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Theron

[Revi]

Here's some of what I've been up to. The footage of splitting wood was taken at our sugarhouse:

http://money.cnn.com/video/#/video/news/2008/06/05/news.Feyerick.oilsurvivalists.cnnmoney

I don't consider my self to be a "survivalist", but that's how they spun it.

[Brian Ryther]

If there is anyone in mapletrader land that is looking to add vac to your operation you need to pm Matt (Royal maple.) I did alot of reasurch and shopping before I bought a liquid ring pump, Matt was not only the least expensive (by alot) but he mounted it on a pressure treated skid, included the water tank, vac gage, strainer, regulator, and delivered it to my back door. Turn key. The pump has made it to its home in NY tonight, with the good news that another 800 taps have been made availble to me. It is looking like there will be big sap in New Lisbon next season.
Brian

[Brian Ryther]

I think I have been able to add my photobucket to my posts. For those of you that would like to take a look at my operation.http://s186.photobucket.com/albums/x3/brianryther/
Brian

[PATheron]

Brian- I like the pics of your setup a lot. Does this mean you are going to have 1600 taps this year? Thatll be good becouse with the price of syrup high hopefully you can pay for a lot of equipment with the money. Theron

[Russell Lampron]

Brian,

Your link works. Nice pictures. Now you need to create a signature and put it into that so it shows up automatically every time you post something.

[Sugarmaker]

Wood shed is getting cemented today, while I am a the Maple confections workshop! Hopefully I can start filling it in a week or so.

Garden is doing real well in this heat.
Chris

[Brian Ryther]

Theron,
I have 1000 taps and tees in the barn. If I get them all in I will have 2,280 for next year. The first 600 have trees with there name on them. I am going to have to go hunting for the last 400.
Brian

[PATheron]

Brian- Your going to be giving me some serious payback with that. Im thinking Ill be at around the 1550 mark but I dont plan on missing many tricks. Maybe I can squeeze out 1600. Keep us posted on how its going. Im doing wood today. Had to quit in the woods becouse it is so hot but im getting a lot processed at the shed. How far up in New York is your bush. Im right near Elmira. Theron

[Brian Ryther]

New Lisbon is about 40min north of Binghamton. I tried to work in the woods but gave up at 11am and went swiming in the creek. Too hot and to many bugs. If I am going to get any work done tomo I will have to get up a day break when it's tollorable.

[Parker]

Brian-very nice pics,,what kind of evaporation rate do you get with your rig? Is it 16' long? do you plan on building an air tight front?

[PATheron]

Brian- Looks like its about a 2.5 hour trip for me. Maybe at some point Ill come up and check out your operation. When are you going to start your expansion? Theron

[Brian Ryther]

Parker, my evaporator is a 6x16 arch, the pans are 6x6 syrup and 6x9 raised flue. When things are perfect, good wood, no sugar sand, clean flues, I have seen as good as 425gph but I average around 375gph. I rebuilt the arch last summer. It was an oil fired rig when I bought it. I found the Leader cast front at Bascoms buried back in a barn. We were able to find the doors but the draft door was MIA. The doors are very warped, so when I made the draft door I was going to make air tight doors , but.... time and energy. If you notice in my pics you can see the latches I welded to the draft door. These push the fire box doors pretty tight but they are not insulated so they have a tendency to glow when things are cooking.
Theron, The big expansion cannot start for a few weeks. The property is in transition between owners. I have 400+ already on this site and the new future owner seems to be on board with expansion plans. After the land is transfered I have to set up a new lease then I should be good to go. Wish me luck. I encourage any one to visit my operation at any time. We all seem to be maple geeks who enjoy talking and visiting with other producers. I know I would like to visit the site of the infamous 08 big sap.
Today I was able to take down a 1/2" line and replace it with 3/4. I also extended it to be able to pick up another 25 with a new booster/ladder. Every tap counts.
Brian

[Sugarmaker]

NWPA report:
Satruday while I was basking in the airconditioning at Northwestern High school, during the Maple confections work shop II, the wood shed got a new cenent floor and we recieved a walk way to the front door to keep folks out of the mud during open house. Both will be nice additions and they look great! I dont have any excuse for not starting to cut pallet wood to fill the wood shed:(

The confections work shop was great and provided some ideas for other ways to make and market maple products. Cotton candy, Maple slushys, Maple marshmello, etc.

I am going to doctor some syrup with Invertase (thanks Gary B) and try to get some ready for cream and candy batches.

Things are a tad warm out there! Feels like a good boiling day in front of the evaporators wood fire. The day job allows me to be in airconditioning and it really hits you when you come out into the real world at 4:30!

Chris

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

had quite a bad thunderstorm yesterday, ended up with 3 big trees uprooted and laying on my mainelines and many laterals pulled down as well. got most of the trees off the mains tomorrow start on the rest of it

RICH

[Jim Brown]

Went to the confection workshop over the weekend I highly recommend for anyone who plans to retail maple products more than from the farm gate.
Any number of great ideas!!
Can't wait to start playing with some of the recipes. As Chris noted Maple smoothies-maple soda and the list goes on!
Nice to see other traders(Chris-Jim-Gary) and meet some new sugarmakers.
'09 wood has been cut,split and stacked and moved to the evaporator. Have about one more small load to haul and '10 wood will be split and under cover.
Now we need to turn off the rain,heat and humidity and get some cooler temps(93 yesterday).Have to get this all finished we're leaving for vacation in Germany in about 4 weeks(no maple syrup over there! have to take our own)

Hope all have a great summer!
Jim

[Maplewalnut]

Finished the house wood and have about half the sugar wood split. Need to split about 3 more cord to finish up. Putting up a mix of pine, hemlock and oak for sugaring. Also have about 50 pallets collected so far that need to be cut up. I'll try and save those for the foggy/dreary days when the rig just doesn't want to boil.

Garden is planted, put in another 25 tomato plants (about 50 altogether) with all the crap going on about salmonella, prices are sure to go through the roof this summer and we'll sauce and can all the extra's.

Had a big snapper come out of the pond, dug a hole and laid about 45 eggs in the back yard. Covered them back up so well you would never know they were there expect for the ripped up grass. We'll see if they make it without something digging them up during the night.

Wife is expecting third sap hauler in October, so lots to do before then.

[PATheron]

Update from BIGSAP Pa. Making a big wood pile. Major wood. Gotta get ready for next years record breaking runs. Theron

[Brian Ryther]

Up graded the sugar house power today. 100amp 240VAC. Ready to wire the Vac. Plenty of power for RO in the future...

[Al]

Here in Pumpkin Village we're going up to 160 buckets. The last two years have been pretty slow. Of course next year I'll have way to much sap. Boy that's a problem.
We're putting a loft in our sugar house for the boys. The youngest wanted a tree house but liked the idea of the loft. We made 12 gallons this year on 132 buckets.
My fathers day present was a Hamilton Standard Commerical blender for Maple milk shakes. Boy are they good. One of the ladies at June Dairy Day' said All I need now is a cotton candy machine. We had a pretty good turn out and I got to spin cotton candy for awhile. Talk about a mess!
Franklen County Field days are next and we're all ready to go. My oldest son Warren (11) has turned out to be a good worker and willing to try anything. You should of seen him trying to get the cotton candy out of the machine. Have to give him points for effort.
Looks like another job change in the future.
Have a great day!

[tuckermtn]

Family and I are finishing up our year in BC...heading back home in July.

Yesterday we were in the wine growing region of BC, near Okanagan Lake. One vineyard (Lang Vineyards) we went to had both a red and white MAPLE wine...pure quebec syrup, nice little display with a few taps and about a 3 ft long section of sugar maple (was about only a 8" DBH tree) They add the maple syrup after fermentation...was actually really good- the red especially.

They market it as a dessert wine to go along with something chocolate...we bought a bottle to take home with us...

another idea for some value added maple product...

-tuckermtn

[Revi]

I have been getting wood at my new woodlot. It is provided to me by the town, and I can throw my trash out there too! I can recycle my cans and papers too! (It's the town transfer station). I find a lot of perfectly useable wood in the wood area. My only criteria are no nails, no pressure treated and no paint. We have enough for several seasons now. There were a lot of white pine limbs, which will take a couple of years to season and need to be handled with kid gloves (or gloves anyway).

It sure is a lot easier than dragging it out of the woods. It is all sugarhouse wood. Not a whole lot of hardwood on the pile any more. I think a lot of people have the same idea that I have.

[Sugarmaker]

Worked bees all day today + bee meeting. Local bee keeper and queen breeder gave each member 4 queens that are breed for mite resistance. I installed them tonight. What a mess I only got stung about a dozen times today. The bees just did not want any one messing with them. We now have 11 colonies (I think).

On the maple side I brought the invertase doctored syrup up to 170 F to kill the invertase and got out 10 gallons of syrup to doctor to get the invert sugar level right for cream and candy. Like Jim Bortles we both have very low invert sugar levels in our syrup and is a challenge to make good cream or candy. I plan to mix/ blend the invertase in tomorrow and then check the invert sugar level and make some candy.

Just started cutting and stacking syrup wood in the sugarhouse for 09.

Also will be getting product ready for July 5th event in our town.

Happy fathers day to all the dads on the trader.

Chris

[PATheron]

Chris- When we were kids I kept bees. I found that overcast days were bad. They were really mean on those days. If I did it on a nice clear sunny day they were in a super good mood. That was just my experiance. Ive got a funny story for you guys. Im always working in my woods and heve been for quite a while. Last winter I had a ruffed grouse start following me around in the woods. I told the guys at work and they said it was the time of year that they are real stupid. This has gone on now since last winter and hes still hanging out with me. He usually stays in the north end of the woods and if I go up and start working in the southern part hell come right over and start giving me attitude. This is while im cutting wood. When my back is turned sometimes hell fly right up and flap his wings against my back. Just depends on his mood. I can sit down and hell come right up to me, Im talking like a foot from me. Yesterday he was jumping on the wood I was cutting right next to the chainsaw. I had to give him the boot so he wouldnt get hurt and that must have ticked him off becouse he went back over to his side of the woods. I know hes not sick or stupid or a critter would have got him by now. Anyone ever heard of such a thing? Theron

[Mike]

Theeeron, Show him a frying pan....LOL.....AL, its nice to see your still around......Hope alls well on pumpkin hill.......

[3% Solution]

Hi Folks,
Happy Father's Day to all!! :)

Chris - As I have said before, we had bees when I was a young fella, most of the hives were very good, however we had one hive that was soooo nasty, I think they would sting each other!!!!
They were just down right mean, so my dad changed the queen and that took care of that!
Do you line bees or have you ever?
They are interesting little insects.

PA - Nice story!!!!!
Hey, I had the same thing happen this past spring, this little guy would hop up on my knee and if didn't talk to him, he would start his little noises while looking at me.
He would chase after me when I would drive down the road.
Haven't seen him in a while now.
I think he found a girlfriend and now I'm just chopped liver!!! :(

Update - Woodshed is half full (or half empty).
I had seven bundles of slabs delivered last week and they are sitting outback just waiting to be cut up.
This is not the time of year to cut wood, the bugs and heat really don't do anything for me!!
Sitting here under cloudy skies waiting for showers and t-storms the next few days.
Hope all is well with everyone!
Stay safe and keep thinking about the '09 season!!!

Dave

[peacemaker]

the owner of my sugar bush has one that follows him its been three years now ...funny thing to see

[PATheron]

Guys- Ive been kind of keeping my eyes open for a larger sap tank for this next year becouse I want to recirculate sap and it would be easier with one tank than the four I have tied together now. Well, today in my travels I found it. You know how when you see something and you know immediately its the one? I think this is the one. Its a stainless 4000 gal milk truck tank that has had the skin removed. Its in great condition and is sitting on a hay wagon running gear. Hook on and go. Looks like once I get it home all I have to do is lay down railroad ties on a good level surface and were in business. What do you guys think? Is it BIGSAP maple inc. material. Trust my instincts and go for it? The(bigsapzar)roon.

[Maplewalnut]

Theron,

I think you already know the answer, especially if it is a decent price and in great shape. Go for it! It will last a couple of lifetimes. If it helps, consider at least one of your other tanks 'sold' (assuming you are going to sell them) LOL

Mike

[PATheron]

Mike- If I buy it I probly will have some for sale. Im thinking I may get rid of a 600 and a 550 and maybe a 450. All of them are nice tanks with covers. Ill probly want a dollar a gallon, kind of the going price. Ill have to see if I have any other uses for them. Ill also have to see if I can work out the deal on the 4000. Im kind of hoping year after next when I get a few more taps in I can run that thing over by early afternoon. Thatll make for some neat pictures. Theron

[Sugarmaker]

3%,
Survived the bees, and will try to work them in better weather next time. Pretty sure it was just the weather. But I should check for skunk scratching marks on the entrance.

I made some candy with the 1% invert syrup and it worked well, got good reviews at work. Boiled to 240 cooled to 185 and hand stirred. ( I only made about 2 cups of syrup).

Theron , That's neat about the grouse. Must be more common that we think a fried of mine sent pictures of his brother with a grouse following him around too. That was a week or so ago.

With lots of monkeying around I did get the law mowed tonight. The cub idled pulley for the deck drive belt failed. The Bolens had a bad idler pulley on the deck and I had to scrounge up a good used one from the spare parts I have and got that going. I Like to mow with the 16 hp Bolens but the deck is a real pain to take off and install.

Chris

[Father & Son]

Spent the last two evenings canning some syrup, making a batch of mustard, and a few pounds of coated peanuts. Going to try a farmers market Saturday morning. Weather looks a little ify so I'm going to pick up a canopy just in case. We're in the middle of a cool down, in the 60's and rain the last two days and now the temperature is supposed to start gradually climbing into the mid 70's by the weekend.

Jim

[mapleman3]

Well besides working on the NAMSC meeting stuff, I have been cutting and splitting wood for next season, I still to get back into the sugarhouse and brick up the arch... but may wait till fall, So I should go back in and set the pans up on 2x4's on the arch.
I also am starting to look for 12" stack... hoping to go stainless (but the prices...ouch)

Thinking of selling my 40gals of bulk for trade for tubing too... hoping for a good bulk price.

Summers almost here, my wife and kids are out for the summer(she's a speech teacher) so I get real jealous of them being home..swimming...lounging...ahhhh it kills me

[jrthe3]

well got the sugar house full of wood just working on stock up some extra ran out last season don't want that to happen again with syrup prices the way the are got all vacuum line ran this past weekend had a guy come over from a near by vender to help with the set up got a lot of addvice and learned alot have not decided on a vac pump got an old surge milker or buy a new one got the ro almost done just getting it ready for paint and we will see how it work don't know anything about them just put some part together the way i thing they should be and will try it when the sap starts to flow

[maplekid]

well i finally have a nice sugarhouse. putting the shingles and vent doors on today. got the wood pile half stacked still have to build a woodshed.by the way how many cords of wood would i need to burn for 100 buckets.

[Sugarmaker]

Maplekid, sounds like you might need at least one cord but having two should get you through the season.

[brookledge]

With 100 buckets if you figure a good year at .3 to .40 gallons of syrup per tap that is 30-40 gallons of syrup and depending on your efficiency of your evaporator and type of wood and it's dryness you will get anywhere from 15-25 gallons of syrup per cord.
So if you play it safe and plan on 40 gallons of syrup and get 15 gallons per cord then that is 2.6 cord. Plan on 3 cord and you should be fine
Alot of years you are doing good if you get a quart per tap with buckets so even if you have 2 cord you would probably be ok. But if you want to be a little safer incase of a banner year than go for 3
Keith

[Sugarmaker]

Jim,
Good luck at the event. I bought a canopy also and haven't put it up yet.

I have some inverted syrup if you want to try some to mix/ blend with your syrup? I used about 5/8 + cup inverted syrup to 2.5 gallons of low invert syrup.

Cut a half cord of locust tonight with Keith. That guy just won't quit. He had a heart monitor on too. I cut and he loaded it! I had a pick up full and small trailer load.
Cut wood pallets, for the sugarhouse last night, about 1/2 cord.

Chris

[Dennis H.]

With all this talk going on about getting the wood ready I better make this the first thing I do once I get home from Oklahoma.

I also have to get off my but and get my sap saks and hangers ordered. I and going to add a few more taps next year.
I asked one guy about tapping maples on his property and he said sure go ahead. I haven't walked it yet but he told me there isn't many maples there, mostly oaks and birch, we'll see.
I went to the tax office the other week and got some nice info on who owns several wooded lots nearby. I will either send them a letter or stop by and ask. I know one of them doesn't even live in the area.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Maplekid,

With a 4x5 flat pan, I would plan on 8 to 12 gallon of syrup per cord of wood to be safe. If you think you can make .4 gallon of syrup per tap, I would plan on at least 4 cord of wood minimum or you will run out. You won't get anywhere near the efficiency out of that setup vs a flued evaporator. I would plan on the low end(8 gallon per cord) to be safe.

[brookledge]

I just re looked at things and agree with Brandon. I gave an estimate of 15-25 gal per cord and that was with a conventional set up using a flue pan.
Definately with only a flat pan and a block arch your ratio will be higher so plan on 4 cord of wood
The worst case is you have some wood left over for next year better safe than sorry.
Keith

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

ok guys I need a little help here... What is a lease on this operation worth?? The sugarbush is currently 1000 taps of the nicest maples you have ever seen, fertalized every year. The owner supplies everything but the labor, I mean everything (sugarhouse, tubing, fittings, evaporator, press, vac, any repair or upgrade materials, firewood log length at the sugarhouse, etc) all equipment is new within the last few years. This is turn key, you need something you ask and it is there for you.. So I ask what would you guys be willing to pay, or what percentage of the syrup would you give to use this operation??

Thanks

[maplecrest]

there are a few operations near here like that. turn key owner supplys fuel ect.what has the owner said he wants? i would think that he would hire the work done. or not interested in the syrup? what is the land use plan? agr. or forest? what are the vac options. gravity maybe 1/3 or 1/4 gal per tap. good tight vac set up 1/2 gallon per tap. 325 gallons or 500 gallons, do you have to truck sap or runs to the sugar house? what is the power to sugar house? 200 amps?for vac ,r/o ect?have heard of operations like that for 1 dollar a tap.and all syrup was the leasees. but that was 2 years ago. times have changed. my thoughts

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

It is a out of state owner, 200 amp power, has a sihi vac, new evaporator, 4X12 2 years ago. basically it is a 1/2 gal a tap bush all piped to the sugarhouse all supplies the leaser wants they provide no questions etc.. this is a incrediable operation. The forester working it thins 5 acres a year then the leaser can pipe it, will be about 2500 taps in 6 or 7 years. as the thinning happens there is all the wood (maple) the leaser needs, log length left at the sugarhouse for the operation the leaser only needs to do the labor, everything else is paid for.. The owner does it now for 10% of the take and that seems a little low for the lease to me... I wonder if they will ever get their money back even on the pipe and equipment..

[Maplewalnut]

If you could get it for 10% or $1 a tap (both the same number if you figure 1000 taps and on average a quart a tap) and its close by I would jump on it. 10% hardly even covers the owners depreciation of the equipmentand supplies let alone the money for the forestry service, fuel for skidding out log length, electric during season etc. Maybe try and sign a longer term deal for 15% knowing more taps will be available in the coming years, shows some good faith!

I can tell you an operation like that in Pa would be close to 25%

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I am working for the owner, someone allready has a leas on it, and I am trying to get a feel for what they should be getting....

[maplecrest]

well what is the forest plan other than increase to 2500 taps or more? is it a big tax right off that the owner needs each year?is the land in current use?what is the foresters idea of the management plan, what is his % in the take. as syrup prices have gone up. a dollar a tap is a little low. but if there is a lot of labor involved remember you never get your "own" labor back in sugaring no matter who owns the operation

[brookledge]

I already pay between .40 and .50 per tap just to tap other land owners trees. All the tubing and mainline etc. are my expense. I would think that 1.00 just for someone who has a sugar bush set up would be worth it.
You say with the high vac. now it averages .5 per tap so even if you sold all the syrup wholesale at 3.25/lb. that would be 500X11X3.25=$17875
So I'd say it is worth at least $5.00 per tap. That means for no other investment than your labor you could walk away with $12,875.
The biggest issue would be the language in a contract for damage to equipment. Burn a pan or run the sihi dry and the $ will be alot.
It seems like the owner is looking for a tax write off or something like that.
Why doesn't he just hire an employee or two to run the whole show?
Keith

[brookledge]

On another note I'm making up my order for Sugarhill's summer sale. I'm saving over .30 per container from what I'd have to pay for my state assoc. jugs and I'm ordering over 1,000 jugs so thats over $300 that I'm saving by having my own jug.
Plus if I pay within 10 days I get another 2% discount
Keith

[PATheron]

Guys- My wifes got me grounded from expanding this year but im working on a little plan. Ive sniffed out 300 and some hedgerow taps and gotten the go ahead from the neighbors. Good runners but you guys are going to think I lost it when I start giving you some distance numbers. Its 2000' to the low point where Im putting the remote tank and then Im basically just running main up the hedgerows till I run out of trees. Going to have to work under the cover of darkness. Gonna wait till she goes to sleep then its go time. If she catches me it could get bad but I have to do it. These trees are sweeeet and there going to have to go on line. 1000 gallons syrup next year or bust. Gotta go, gotta do the dishes for sweety pie. Stay on the good side. The(bigsapzar)oon

[brookledge]

Give her some money to go shopping for the day and then you can have the day to yourself to work on the main line.
Keith

[PATheron]

Good thinking Keith, How you making out with your plans for next year? Have you had time to do anything syrup related yet or are you waiting for fall to tinker on things? Theron

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

some times forgiveness comes easier than permission

RICH

[Jeff E]

Theron-

I take it your sweety-pie has some unique antibody that keeps her from getting the maple bug. Too bad...

In April my wife gave me the go-man-go sign to put in a vacuum system, build a sugar house and buy equipment...to grow from 350 to about 2000.

I have been hanging wire, planning and schemming, donating to the skeeters and ticks, actually understanding the huge amount of work I have to get done between now and next spring.

So far she is supportive, but getting a funny look in her eye when come home from work and turn around and head out into the woods...I think she may have the antibody as well coming to the surface.

Good Luck zaper

Jeff

[PATheron]

Jeff- How far along are you with your setup? How is the tubing system going? Theron

[brookledge]

Theron
I'm not sure what I'm going to do to try and improve. It's kinda hard to think about it since I have always said I want to get a half gallon per tap. Well I blew that away with over 6 tenths so like I said I'm not sure where to go next. I'm thinking about going to liquid ring and also maybe a sap ladder but no major expansion, at best 30 -40 more this coming year.
Keith

[PATheron]

Keith- Sounds like your system doesnt really need any modification to me with those kind of results. I like the ring just becouse it doesnt require much attention. Ive never had a dairy but I hear you guys talk about them and it seems like they need a little more attention. My system needs some finetuning but I barely had it installed when season started this year. Ive got a good bit of things to do. All just fun stuff though, no really big projects. Gotta extend my dry lines into the bush. Gotta run some additional mains and taps. One neat thing is I want to install my double releaser right in my sugarhouse kitchen. The tank that I want to use is going to be too big to run the lines in so I think im going to run the releaser inside and pump it into the tank. Keep me posted if you guys do anything fun. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Spent yesterday stringing mainline wire, fighting skeeters, wire tying a short section of new main line, fighting deerflies and in general working on the established bush where I am tweaking the system for better vacuum and trying to bring more taps onto vacuum through a series of sap ladders. Hope they work well as it will mean an additional 500 on the vacuum system. Some to be lifted 25 feet. Since the weather hasn't been conducive for haying, I might as well sugar it.
The new bush project looks bigger every time I look at it. That's probably both good and bad. If I tap Reds as well as Sugars, I can get another 1700 taps. The wife says "You're spending the money on the RO, tap them. Money may be tight by the time this project is over but more taps will mean a faster payback.
The new sugarhouse is coming along. I have pretty detailed plans drawn up for the local building inspector and hope to get his approval tomorrow (Yup, on a Sunday). Have cut the logs and sawed the lumber for the project. Roofing is sitting on the front lawn (less to mow).
Today I'm off to an auction to see about a couple more bulk tanks. Deen busy but having fun.
Doug

[PATheron]

Doug- TAP THE REDS!!!, TAP THE REDS!!!. Im just giving you crap but I would if they were mine. I wondered about that too but I tapped mine and I didnt have any problem. I probly would becouse every tap is worth a lot of money right now. They make good syrup and you have an ro. This is why I like reds, every barrell of syrup is basically a $1000.00. Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Theron,
Did you pull the reds early worrying about buddy syrup? I'm a great procrastinator and I might not "get around to it" and ruin what still might be good from the sugars.
Doug

[royalmaple]

This year buddy syrup paid the same per pound as the lightest ribbon winning syrup. So do the math, taps stay in till your suckin air from the trees. I'm still getting small runs now and then.

:-)
Just unloaded 60 syrup drums here at the house. Lots of lifting, I'll post a picture on the classifieds area so people can see what they look like.

[Mark-NH]

Last year we added vacuum to both bushes and consequently spent a lot of time in the sugarhouse feeding wood into my 2 1/2 x 6 1/2. Made 107 gallons this year. Didn't take a discussion group to figure you we had to do something different for the future.

After I found a 3x8 at Bascom's this spring, I sold my evaporator to Amber Gold. The 3x8 should be perfect. It will fit into the sugar house without modifications and should match my sap production well.

The unit is a Leader raised flue made in 2000. Some of you that went to the open house may have seen it. The middle 2 sections of the syrup pan are warped pretty hard but with a decent year next year I can buy a new one.

Can't wait to get it home and set up. Gotta have something to worry about, right?

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Today at 4:30 my wife gave birth to our 3rd child, a baby girl name Eliza.. So all you guys trying to catch my tap count, you better look out, I am back in the game now..... (yes this means you Royal, & Theron!!)

[tuckermtn]

Valley view- congrats- future sap and/or wood haulers are a good thing...

but for me, it was the birth of our kids that took me OUT of the game...still trying to get back in...but I'm only at 335 taps, so nothing to worry about there.

[PATheron]

Valley View- Congrads on the new addition to the family. Nothing beats that for excitement. I think Im going to have trouble matching the count but Im going to keep plugging away. Doug- I worried about that too but I honestly dont think it made any difference. Im tapping them and Im not even going to worry about pulling them. As scarce as syrup is now it doesnt matter anyway but I dont think it affected my color anyhow. I just consider them a normal tap. I would tap as many of them as you have. Just make barrells, lots of them. I want to hear some big numbers next spring. Ill try to match you. Im shooting for a 1000 gallons next year so the race is on. If pretty mommy doesnt catch me snooping around the hedgerows Ill be able to do it. Cant miss a trick. Theron

[wdchuck]

Congratulations View! I'm staying at 1 child, but adding on a couple hundred on pipeline and two buckets for my little boy................

[PATheron]

Doug-How many taps total do you think you will have? How is the size of this years operation compare to what youve had before? Theron

[Thompson's Tree Farm]

Got 2 small bulk tanks at the auction yesterday. Paid about 80 cents/gallon. Not a bad price but spent 8 hour standing around in intermittent rain until they came up. Ain't auctions wonderful?
Doug

[Jeff E]

I have about 1/2 of the woods planned, marked for slope and brushed out. I have installed 4000' of wire, with tensioners and side wire, post and tree supports. I would guess I have a total of 16,000 feet of wire to do.

My lines are coming in the next few weeks, so I will be hang the wet/dry lines, building manifolds and running mainline soon.

whew!

Jeff