Property Owner Permission

[Amber Gold]

An abutting property owner has approximately 80-90 taps on the southern side of the hill behind my house and owns another 30 acreas on the northern side of the hill. This 80-90 taps will allow me to extend my tubing run to the street and will allow me easy access to my storage tank and more taps. I'm guessing the potential on the northern side of the hill is pretty good especially with it being 30 acres. I have the property owner's contact information, but do not know who he is or anything about him. What have people found the best way to contact property owners and approach them about tapping their trees? I was considering writing them a letter because it would give the person time to process the information without getting the first response "don't do anything to my property" when a stranger shows up or calls. Curious to what other peoples experiances are.

Thanks

[mapleman3]

since they are "your neighbors" I would try to contact them in person, find out when they are in the neighborhood... invite them over to see your operation and offer them a sampling of syrup.. and say that you will give them some thats made directly from their trees!! also invite try to have them come when you are boiling to see how it's all done.... show them how you are conservative in your tapping and that the Sugarer is all about a healthy tree because it's our livelyhood !!!


Win them through their taste buds :)

[Maplewalnut]

The hardest part is the knock on the door. After that most people are very receptive and appreciate a little syrup as a return. I did have one 'renter' however this year that said no problem when we asked to tap the trees only to receive a call from the 'landowner' a few days later that they did not want the trees tapped since they were concerned over the health of the trees. (Keep in mind these are some of the nicest 3ft diameter trees I have ever seen. Spaced about 40ft apart and crowns are so full they almost touch each other) Since the trees were already tapped they agreed to leave the taps in and I have a couple months to try an educate them on the little effect sap collecting has on a healthy 75+ year old tree with only two buckets on it. Lesson learned...make sure you are speaking to the owner of the property!

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

Like maplewalnut said the hardest part is the knock on the door. when you ask make sure he knows you dont need his decision on the spot, and give him a pt or qt of syrup up front


RICH

[peacemaker]

i made up a little pahlet also with some facts and such also in the producers manuel theres a lease agreement ... that i use

[maplehound]

The hardest part for me is showing how tapping will fit with there plans for the property. For instance, are you using tubing or buckets? tubing is very intusive to hunters and recreation usses, where buckets arn't as much so. Buckets are very hard on roadways, especially wet spots, tubing isn't as much. My experience has been that most landowners like the buckets or if you take the tubing down every year. I however don't have the time for buckets and I like leaving my tubing up year round. The solution is planing your mainline tubing around paths and opening up the paths in the off season. Also making branch lines easy to drop or roll up out of the way when necissary. Also keep in mind that you have less than 100 taps and if they want $$$ instead of syrup $40 won't cut it. (based on .40 per tap) You may need to add for the convience of getting your sap to the road easyier.

[TapME]

I have never had a property owner say no. Around here they like the idea of the trees being used. I even had someone ask me if I wanted to take care of there apple trees and keep all the apples when I asked to tap the maples. Their thoughts were that they were planted for the sap or apples and if they aren't used them it is a waste.

[brookledge]

Also make sure you talk to both husband and wife. I know someone in my town that stoped and asked if he minded if they tapped the maple trees and that they were planning on using tubing. The guy said no problem and and the next day they began setting it up.
Well he didn't tell his wife he ok'd it and when she came home the next day and saw it she freaked. Needless to say they allowed it to stay that year but then it had to come down. So they invested alot of money only for one year.
Keith

[Amber Gold]

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll talk to them this weekend.

There's a dirt path where I could use buckets on about 15-20 of the taps, but the remaining 60-70+ are on the side of the hill and there's no access to them aside from walking in there. I'd say that the sugars cover go back about 800 feet from path. I'd say that'd be a lot of walking if I was to empty buckets by hand. Tubing would certainly be preferred. Is there a way to install tubing and drop it on the ground at the end of the season and string it back up late fall? Maybe leaving the wire up, which isn't too noticable anyways. This is a situation at the house I already have permission for where the husband was fine with tubing up year round, but my wife caught a funny look from his wife when I mentioned it. I figure if I could do it this way it would be unobstrusive during the summer when people tend to care more how their property looks.

[peacemaker]

where i use to tap i had to take everything down... what i found works great is i string my wire and wire tie the tubing to it i also use 4 season eletrical tape at the top of the line i put either a piece of webbing around the top tree or if theres a non maple i put in a screw eye ... i put in a loop in the wire and a carrabiner then lay the line out how i want and at the bottom i do the same except i put in a stariner or if u want a ratchet strap tighten the line up and pull off the laterals tap the trees done at the end of the season i drop the line i use milk jug caps to mark number the lines and i also hang one on my bottom and top hooks ...easy to find where each line goes ...

[maplecrest]

be up front with all plans. tanks , tubing ect. and get a time line that is ok with everyone. my first rented bush i had to take down and put the tubing up every year. nothing goes back the same. set a price for the taps from the start. dont get them tapped and then agree. you might not make any money between the price of the taps and the syrup they want all year.clean up rented bushes first then yours, makes for happy neighbors. i got a kid a bush that helped me last year and i told him everything i said here. he lost the bush after one season for not cleaning the area up. if he took the tanks home and pulled the taps there first he would still have it. land owners dont want to look at tanks on there side with plywood tops thrown around at the end of there drive way.

[maplehound]

Amber Gold. Don't even think about leaving the wire up and taking the tubing down every year. That is a major accident waiting to happen. those tight wires are almost invisible to a hiker or hunter that isn't aware of them. Also the suggestionabout cleaning the woods is a good one, when talking about after season clean up. However before cleaning any brush , I would suggest talking to the landowner first. In my case I almost lost a woods from over clearing under brush. Most was just to get my mainlines in, but the owners son was upset. He felt that it was bad for the deer hunting. Just be very clear with the land owner as to his expectations and land use. You can both co exsist if you consider his needs first.

[maple flats]

Maplehound is exactly right about not leaving the wire up if you take the tubing down. You would have too much liability if someone driving their 4 wheeler got hurt or worse. I leave the tubing up and mark it with some ribbon tape, bright colors. The other possibility might be to loosten it and hoist it high enough so even a horse rider would be safe but this would not be easy.

[Amber Gold]

That's a great point about the wire. I hadn't thought of that.

The trees in my neighbors house are in the rear of his property and his wife didn't seem too keen about tubing up year round. The abutting property is not a residence and is just land that someone owns. Since there is no house it may/may not be as big of a deal for this owner about the tubing up year round.

I thought I had read somewhere (either here or in a book) there’s a method of installing mainline/tubing where you run the wire on the ground, attach the line, and then string it up to trees, and you kind of end up with a zig-zag type pattern going down the hill. I think this method allowed you to drop all or sections of tubing as needed so you could access different parts of the woods with equipment. Is this a correct method?

There’s less than 100 taps in the area I’ve scouted out, which is only about 10 of the 40 acres. There’s the remaining 30 acres on the north side of the hill. I haven’t been on that side yet, but I’m sure there’s going to be more. I’d need to run more tubing and dumping stations on the other section, but it would keep it close the house. This other section also has easy road access from a street that runs behind my house. Also looking on town’s tax map software, I found out that he owns some more large parcels of property around town. I think when I talk to him this weekend I’ll just try and get permission for my abutting property for a season and if both parties are happy, seek permission for his other properties for the following season.

[maplecrest]

on that first rented bush, i did not use wire, i just pulled the main line tight with tieing the sags off to trees. since i had to roll it up every year. after watching me fight it and got a taste for my product. that is now a year around set up.

[mapleman3]

My north bush will be broken up into a few bushes and unfortunately for now I have to take down every year(trying to change that) I have to also think of an easy way... I think where it is I may be able to side pull the main enough to keep it tight, it has a good slope.. I like the idea of the caribiner and tree strap... if I use the wire over and over

[peacemaker]

it works well its just tricky to wrap up but you can make spools to roll up on ...

[Amber Gold]

I had a lead on another property in town. I stopped in last night and they didn't have anything, so they sent me to their neighbor's who owns 60 acres. I found 60 acres of red oaks. All I could think of was "If these were all sugars the things I could do, 4x16 evap, 1200 gph RO, tubing,..." but such was not the case. He said he new some people in town and would spread the word. We'll see how it goes. I'll talk to my abutter this weekend.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

[TapME]

Glad to see good things happening in your town.

[Amber Gold]

I spoke to the property owners today and things went well. Very nice people. I got permission to tap the trees along the path, which is good because it'll allow me to continue my run and get good access. This gets me 20 of the 90 taps I had found. I asked him about tapping the rest of the hill, where most of the trees are, and he said he wasn't sure because he'd have to talk to his sister about it. Apparently owns the property with his sister. I told him I'd come back in the fall and talk to him some more about it. They were really nice so I don't think it'll be a problem getting permission to get the other 70 taps.

There's another property I found in town with about 40 taps that I can see from the road. After asking my chief if he knew the owners and he said the husband just past away last Friday, so I'll wait some time before I ask them. There's another property in town with about 40 taps and I'll talk to them sometime this week.

Thanks for the insight on this subject.

Josh

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

see the hardest part is knocking on the door. next spring you will be tapping so many you will need a bigger pan. good luck and keep looking

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

Did they like the syrup you gave them? Its a great calling card I give out a pint for the pancakes and a small maple leaf for the window and that is the one they will remember you by.

[Amber Gold]

The hardest part is knocking on the door. You never know what kind of person you're going to meet.

I completely forgot out about the syrup. I was just about home when I looked down and saw the jar in my truck. I'll either drop it off sometime this week or when I go back this fall to talk about tapping the rest of the property.

[Justin Turco]

Maybe you should ask them for permission to "sugar" their trees. Rather than asking if you can "tap" their trees. Bring a health spout with you. Be sure they know you tap conservatively. I like peacemakers idea of an information pamplet. Grimm's had some grey tubing that was supposedly the same as the blue tubing. Wish that is what I had in the sugarbush's that I use. Less obvious to the eye. Tubing can take a landowners breath away when they first see it. But hey, it's not forever.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Color can be shocking. I orderd 8 rolls of the 5/16 tubing one year and there was 4 rolls orange and 4 rolls blue and after it was all set up it dawned on me that I was 60 miles from green bay and the Bronco had just won the Super Bowl LOL