Soldered Pans

[kirkhedding]

I'm new to this post, so this question probably has come up before. I'm looking to purchase a used 2 by 6 wood fired evaporator. I've seen a couple that say they are SS pans that are soldered. Is having soldered pan's that big of deal? Also, what if the solder is not lead free. Again, big deal or not.
Thanks
Kirk

[Haynes Forest Products]

Lead free solder is what you want. You can get test kits at plumbing stores. Lead solder melts at a lower rate then lead free does. With that in mind we all have come close to over heating out pans at one time or another with lead solder that could mean a repair. with Tig welded pans it could mean alot of cleaning and some worpage but no leaks. I have a old set of 2X6 English tin pans and they have more seam repairs than Rosie O'Donalds pants suit. The worst part is when your boiling and you think there is a leak and all your work is going up the stack. Trying to repair solderd pans is one of the most frustrating things you can try and do in the heat of the battle.

[kirkhedding]

Can you and how hard is it to resolder with lead-free?
Kirk

[Haynes Forest Products]

The problem with repairing solderd pans is Have they been repaired before??
Trying to use lead free over lead base solder is the melting temp. If you look at the different solders at home depot you will notice the amount of lead in the differant types and that will effect the melting temp. So if you try to repair the leak with higher temp solder than the surounding solder you end up making things worse. Its like trying to nail Jello to the wall. Its easer to fix 450 degree solderd pans with 400 degree solder and then 350 YADA YADA YADA.

[Haynes Forest Products]

One other quick note When I switched over to lead free solder doing plumbing I was still thinking this is crap then I got used to it NO BIG DEAL. But if you try and fix a sweat joint next to old lead joint with lead free...Higher heat you can end up with a leaky mess on the old joint.

[kirkhedding]

OK, I get your point. Right now i'm looking at 2 different 2 by 6 evaporators. One is an older Leader and the other an older Small Bros. Both have soldered pans. I'll have at least 100 taps this coming year and that's the most i'll have for a while. Are these going to be good starter units? Their both around $1400. Or is the lead solder just something to totally stay away from? Of course a used one that is welded is about $3500.
Kirk

[Haynes Forest Products]

Sounds like the person selling the pans is looking to the future and moving up so why not you. All it takes is a good leak to ruin part of a season. been there done that it can cause a divorce.

[kirkhedding]

Thanks for the info. and help
Kirk

[peacemaker]

for 1400 dollars u could either find some used pans or have some flat pans made with only 100 taps can boil that on a set of 2x6 flat pans .. and make a arch out of cinder blocks or a old oil tank ...

[maplecrest]

there is a big difference between leader pans and small bros. how much syrup are you planning to make? sell? leader pans are put togather differently than small bro. if there is a hot spot the smalls will leak before the leader in the fold design of the joints soldered. lead solder will be ok if you dont use acid or disturb the solder or leave sap in the pans at the end of the season for two months that turns to an acid. there are other lead factors other than solder in pans like buckets, tanks, pumps, ect. for the starting out sugar maker to think about.

[Amber Gold]

I'm looking at a set of soldered pans now and there may/may not be any leaks. I'm asking the seller that question now. They are Small Bros. pans and am not sure if there lead soldered or not, but am going to assume they are to be safe. If there are leaks now, or in the future, can these be fairly easily repaired by me, or someone that is good at soldering?

When was the switch made from lead to lead free solder?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Ask the seller to do a test and varify if its lead free go back to #1 post and start reading from there.

[peacemaker]

if i remeber right the fellas at bascom said if there soldered they are almost positively lead solder

anything before 80 is right?

[maplecrest]

everything after 1993 was lead free

[tuckermtn]

you can find an occasional lead free set of pans from Grimm in the early 90's...I have a set that was specifically ordered with lead free solder from the original owner and when tested with a lead kit it tested negative...date stamped on it is 1991

lead kits are cheap and easy from most hardware stores...

[Russell Lampron]

everything after 1993 was lead free

Is that true for all manufactures?

[maplecrest]

i was a bascoms open house talking about galvanized smoke stacks and it was said that "leader" went lead free in 1993. dont know about the others!

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Leader and Grimm were years ahead (like 4-5 years before) Small Bros. and others on the first to use lead free solder. As far as lead free pans go VS leaded/look at some test that Proctor maple did on sap turned into syrup and you can see that for some reason unexplained that the Lead Free pans sometimes made syrup with a higher lead content than leaded pans.

There is lead in sap and the #1 common sense thing to do is not to let sap set in your leaded pans for days as that will spike the lead level and also proven is that a filter press can lower the lead level-even though it has a bronze pump.

All professional soldering on sap pans are done with an iron and not your farmers blow torch if you want it to last for years.

They stretch this lead thing way too far and don't let it get too far into your head/Granted any reduction of intake of this KILLER Contaminent is a plus i'd guess= Someday they'll tell you just looking at it will cause cancer.

[Haynes Forest Products]

In the older parts of the city all the water lines from the street into the house is all lead pipe then its galvinized.

[brookledge]

The key thing to remember is that when using something with lead be it water pipe or an evaporator, normal use will coat it with minerals. And as long as the contact time is limited there should be no problem. My parents have a spring that runs constant into there cellar for there water supply. It has been used over 100 years and it still has some lead pipe in it. My parents have tested it on a few occasions and the test from the spring and then test it after it went through the pipe showed no lead. But as I said the reason for it is there is just enough build up on the walls to create a barrier.
Now back to evaporators. As you all know sugar sand coats every trhing in the pans. So as long as you don't do any acid washes or harsh scrubbing to expose the lead you shouldn't have any lead leaching. If you are going to leave the sap sitting in it for more than a day I would recommend draining it to also keep the levels down.
The reason I give advice to stay away from pans with lead is the fact that at any time big brother (govt.) can make a new law that you can't use the pans any more. So I think it's the best practice to work towards getting rid of all the things that have lead but not stop using them if it is what you have. Nor do I think that if a good deal comes along somebody shouldn't by lead soldered pans just remember there could come a time when you are forced to get rid of it at which time it won't be worth anything.
Keith

[Amber Gold]

I didn't end up buying the pans. The owner wasn't willing to do a lead or leak test and they were to far for me to see them personally. Also freight charges were going to be $400 and the owner wanted $200 to package them. There was also the potential for repair work due to 2 bent flues and a broken valve. So it wasn't going to be worth it.

If you can believe it a certain extremely large producer in NH that specializes in selling used equipment is selling a set of late '80's 2x6 pans for $2000.