Acid Convert

[SeanD]

I just used muriatic acid on my steam table pans and man, I'm a believer!

I had been using straight vinegar, even letting it soak for weeks, and I still had to scrub and scrub until my arm fell off. Even with that there was always a layer of black that I just couldn't get off. Finally, after this last futile soak in vinegar, I gave the muriatic a try and I almost wept (and not from the fumes either). Layers of black a couple seasons old came off in minutes.

A word of advice for anyone who has not tried muriatic acid. It's strong stuff and a couple of times a wave of fumes hit me hard. Definitely work outside and on a breezy day if possible.

Scrub gently. Sometimes when I pushed hard against a warped spot, the pan would pop and a spray of acid hit my upper arm. The arm I can rinse off, had it been my eyes, it might have been different. Let the acid do the work. If you still have to scrub hard, let it soak for a few minutes more. Be sure to wear long rubber gloves.

Sean

[WMF]

Be real careful using muriatic acid on shiney new pans, it will sometimes etch the surface and leave a dull yellowish haze.

[SeanD]

I had heard about the dulling before, but so far, they pretty much look like my other pan that I didn't give the acid wash to. Is it something that will happen over time? I'll watch mine and let you know if I see anything.

Sean

[sapman]

My dad loves muriatic acid. He uses it on anything metal to shine it right up. Problem is, the shine never lasts long, then it starts to corrode. Not sure how it would react on stainless. Pan cleaner seems very similar, so maybe it's OK.

Tim

[RileySugarbush]

I used it on my old flue tube steam table pans. These were stainless pans with copper tubes and lead free silver solder. It absolutely cleaned thing up. The coper and solder would be bright, but the steam table pans were not shiny to begin with.

I haven't tried it on my new stuff, but would not be afraid to.

Be careful with this stuff, it is very strong acid. Were gloves, Wear safety glasses and be sure to read the label cautions before opening it. You know you got your hands on something powerful when it smokes just by opening the cap!

[Haynes Forest Products]

Make sure that you nutralize the acid when your done. I was talking to Maple Pro about a post I read about all the pans they get in for repair and they said it was from pin holes from acid not getting cleaned off before storage.

[SeanD]

I gave them a good, long rinse under a hose. Think that is good enough? There was no noticeable smell of the acid when I was done and it was some really powerful stuff. I'm hoping to do some test boiling at some point to see if I can get the back pans boiling. That should help too right?

John, I've been going back and looking at those hammer arrester flues of yours and it sure is tempting to try to get those evap. rates up on the cheap!

I'm still new to this. At what point do I realize enough is enough?

Sean

[peacemaker]

sean on the bottle it should say what to use to neutralize it
sometimes water wont do it

[SeanD]

Phew! I just ran out to the garage to check the jug. It says flush with water for 1-2 min when done, so I think I'm in the clear. Thanks for the heads-up, though.

Sean

[Haynes Forest Products]

SeanD Did I read your post correctly....... if i ever realize that enough is enough that is the day they use the pine from the crate of my last big purchase for a box to bury me in. There is no such thing as enough there is always one more tree that can be taped an you know what that leads too.

[peacemaker]

yeah i leads to this ..if i am gonna tap that one i probally should just run a mainline in there and pick up 100 more taps ... oh and then theres that one and wouldnt it be nice if i could tap those trees or wonder if they will let me but buckets on them ...lol next thing you know your adding a addition to the sugar shack .....AGAIN

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

my favorite is HOW DID I MISS THAT 1


RICH

[sapman]

A typical neutralizing agent would be baking soda, as I understand it. That is what I always used after pan cleaner. Actually, I haven't had to use any cleaner for a few years. I just soak the pans for a long time after the season with soft water, and sometimes recirculate water in the pans.

When I started out, I was told not to use pan cleaner till just before the next season. This way, any acid left in the pan wouldn't have long to set before getting lots of use, hence less chance of pitting in the stainless.

Tim

[VT maple maker]

Unfortunately i burned some syrup on the bottom of my syrup pan near the end of our last boil this year, DOH!! I went to the hardware store today and bought some muriatic acid equivalent. It says it doesn't burn skin. I wouldn't recommend testing it. It also said 90% less fumes than real muriatic acid. This stuff smelled pretty rugged. If thats only 10% of what the real stuff smells like id imagine actual muriatic acid would just about knock you clean out with one whiff. Either way i dumped it in the pan and let it sit for about 3 minutes. The burnt on stuff wiped right out like it was hardly attached to begin with. I used steel wool on one spot for about 10 minutes one day and it didn't even begin to take it off. Once again you guys here saved me hours of labor intensive work. SUGAR MAKERS RULE!!

Kyle

[Brent]

keep in mind the only thing that will neutralize an acid is something that is basic.

Basic chemicals are corrosive too.

Use lots and lots and lots and lots of water to rinse.

[SeanD]

It's been a couple of weeks since I used the acid and the pans still look okay - no yellowing, staining, etc. So the water rinse seemed to do the trick.

Sean

[UNDRBLLY]

Sean,

Did you dilute the muriatic acid before you cleaned your pans or did you use it full strength?

[Justin Turco]

I am a guy that etched a syrup pan. I was using pan cleaner crystals. I wet sanded my front pan for probably 8 hours after that one. (had to..it boiled with hot spots.) And finally got it polished up again.

On another note: I had to dump some syrup one day that had an off flavor. I had just done a syrup pan cleaning with the leader pan cleaner. (good stuff) I was in a hurry and I just sprayed it out. It looked nice and clean but there must have been some residue. Now I make sure I wipe it out with a clean wet cloth while I am rinsing the heck out of it. Never had a problem since.

[Brent]

I also had to dump a lot of syrup this year after using a brand name pan cleaner. But I am also looking at other things that might have contributed.
But it did go off the next day after we first used the cleaner.

[SeanD]

Sean,

Did you dilute the muriatic acid before you cleaned your pans or did you use it full strength?

I used it full strength, but some of the charred stuff was pretty heavy. Even at full strength this stuff didn't just wash off. I still had to scrape and scrub gently. I suppose if I let it soak longer it would have been easier. Definitely be careful of the fumes and splashing around.

[brookledge]

Justin and Brent
Why did you have to dump the off flavor syrup out? All you need to do is sell it as commercial and that is paying good money
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Off flavored is one thing, syrup with chemicals is another. Dump it, don't want to poison or get a bunch of people sick, not worth the chance. Some of you may think this is silly, but there was an article in THE MAPLE NEWS a couple of years ago where an inspector tasted a small sample of syrup out of a full barell and got really sick just from a small taste. Forunately, they traced it back to the producer cleaning his evaportor with syrup pan acid and rinsed it, but not thoroughly enough to get rid of it completely. Just think what this could have done to the industry had it not been caught.

Let's not get greedy with this whole $ 3+ per pound for commerical syrup. Fine if it has an off taste, but if you think it has any chance of chemicals in it, be a man and do the right thing and DUMP IT where even animals can't eat it.

[benchmark]

Brandon-

Im guessing brookledge wasnt really being serious about that?


Good for the inspector, he actually was doing his job. thats what they get paid for right? unlike the inspectors of the tainted tomatoes. they never seem to do anything. seems every almost every week theres another outbreak of somalia or e-coli on food.

[green4310]

Leader pan cleaner is Phosphoric Acid which is present in a lot of foods on the store shelves. It's also the acid usen in the TSCO dairy cleaner/rinse. It's the only acid I would consider for pan cleaning. I find it hard to believe that any residue would harm anyone unless they had an allergic reaction. It is used for pipe line clean/rinse out and left in the line all year until washed out with the first run, according to the Leader guy, who told us about it.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I was not jumping on Keith as he is a really nice guy or anyone else for that matter. Just pointing out, let's just do the right thing.

[brookledge]

I should have been more clear. Obviously if the syrup is real bad then dump it but at the same time with the prices of commecial you should be saving every thing you can.
This year at Bascom's open house I was talking to Ken about the evaporator and after I talked to him I read this year and last year daily log and syrup production. What I found interesting was that each year they start making commercial syrup and make quite a bit before going up to Lt. A. I never got a chance to talk to Ken again but I'm assuming that either they don't clean there lines at the end of the year or it is just from keeping every drop of sap that runs and some of it is old from not having enough to boil yet.
In either case as I tap my trees I let the sap run on the ground for a while until I think previous residue and condensation are flushed out, even though I wash my lines.
I have always strived to start the year out with good tasting Lt.A but am starting to think diferently about that since all grades are paying the same. I have no idea how much sap I usually let run on the ground but my point I was trying to make is that there is high demand for off flavored or commercial syrup.
Keith

[Acer]

Last year boiled some syrup in the spaghetti pot and just couldn't scrub the residue out of the pot.
Made a tomato based stew in it and came out spotless, no scrubbing at all. Must be the acid in the tomato.

Boiling up a tomato juice solution may be an easy clean up for small kettle boilers out there.

Evaporator stew anyone?

D

[Haynes Forest Products]

Last year I used oven cleaner on my flue pan and used a cheap elec power washer and it came out looking brand new. I used to scrub and boil with pan cleaners and you gould never get all that oily residue from defomers and just the natural crap.

[gbilek]

a little baking soda will kill the acid instantly and can then easily be rinsed away with water.