Firebricking

[wanabe]

Hi Guys,


Ive been getting stuff together to firebrick my 2x8 with drop flue rear pan. A friend of mine also has a 2x8 that he bought fully bricked. He was telling me that under his flue pan every 16 or so inches they ran a row of brick standing up on its side perpendicular to the flues. They are only about 3/8 of an inch below the flues. Is this to keep the fire up into the flues and collect the ash in the bottom or is there another reason this should be done.

Thanks Jeff

[WF MASON]

Sounds reasonable to me, if you have a flue drain you might want to put a piece of ceramic blanket over it and brick in front of it to keep the flames off it. Sometimes you can get syrup buring in the drain.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeff,

What kind of drop flue do you have?? I have a 2x8 Leader drop flue and with full size firebrick laying flat, they come to within .5" or less of the bottom of the flues.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeremy,

How did you do yours with it being a raised flue?? Do you just have firebrick under the flue pan or do you have vermaculite(?) and/or ceramic blanket??

[wanabe]

Hi Guys,

You guys made me wonder what I was dealing with with my arch and pans so made a call to the guy I bought it from. He said the reason I have so much space below my pan is because the arch is designed to run a 7 inch drop flue and I only have a 5 drop pan. He said I could either double up on the firebrick on the bottom to get me to 1/2 inch clearance or stand the bricks on their side every 3rd brick creating a dam to keep the heat up high. He likes to stand the bricks up he says it gives the ash somplace to go other than the entrance to the stack but they will both produce the same results. Does anyone have trouble with the flues filling with ash during the season or is this not a problem? Sorry for all the questions this is my first year with a flue pan and I want to get it as close to right as I can right from the get go..

Thanks Jeff

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jeff,

On my 2x8, I didn't have any problems with the ash filling up this year. I did have a little problem at the end of the season when I started running a blower. The main problem was my blower was not high enough speed. It had just enough speed to blow the ash up under the flues, but not enough to blow the ash on out the stack.

As far as your idea, it seems fine. One thing you could also do is to put one or two layers of 1" 2600 degree ceramic blanket underneath the firebrick. You may also want to do it in the firebox before you brick it to help prolong the life of the firebox.

You are doing a great job and keep up the good work!

[Parker]

Hi everyone- The archs I have seen (raised flue) have a layer of brick aginst the arch then the rest of the space is filled with sand. Is it diffrent with the drop flues? I was told to go with fireboard, then the brick then run the sand right up to the arch rails,,,,,,any suggestions,,,{Ill be setting mine up this summer and I would like to get it right the first time},,,,,Parker

When I bricked my current arch, it was pretty much shoot from the hip installation. Didn't get much guidance from the dealer. Then again I didn't give it much thought. Its apparent from all these posts that firebricking apprears to be a science in itself.

When you guys talk about "fireboard" are you refering to a material that looks like "sheetrock" or "gypsum board" but is comprised of a concrete material? At our local Lowe's/Home Depot, this stuff is called Durarock.

Next question, is there a rule to follow as to how much space there should be between the flues (dropflues) and the firebrick? If I get a new unit this summer, I'd like to use all the good advice given here to brick it correctly.


Russ

That fireboard is not like concrete. It is more like fibreboard only good for high temeratures. It can be cut with a knife. I like it because it is stiff and can be tightly fitted behind the brick. Maple dealers sell it. Some use ceramic blanket for the same thing only it isn't stiff.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Russ,

Durarock is the concrete type board that is used on subfloors to lay ceramic tile on. The insulating board they are referring to is totally different. I know some dealers carry it and Bascom's carries it in stock for $ 7.55 for a 1" x 3' x 1' board.

As far as firebricking, it depends on how you look at it. Some people just throw the brick in anyway and don't care and others take a lot of time and pride in the job. I have a 2x8 and I spent a lot of time on mine so it would look great and work great.

As far as the space underneath the flues on a drop flue, I have around 3/8" to 1/2" and that is with full size firebrick. I don't think you would want too much more than that because the more space underneath, the more fire that pulls thru down there and doesn't make contact with the upper part of the flues. Don't know for sure, but that's my theory. I have a Leader and they recommend the full size brick even under the flues and that is how the brick came out. :? :? :D

if you put 3/8 to half inch under a flue pan. How much clearance would you put under a flat pan? would you angle the brick or make them level all the way back.

[RUSTYBUCKET]

Brandon,

What is the thickness of full size fire brick? The brick I used was 1" thick.


Russ

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Russ,

Full size firebrick are 2 3/8" thick and half brick are normally 1 1/4" inch thick!

[ebourassa]

Where can I get refactory cement? and tips on firebricking would be greatly appreciated, I am hopin on fire bricking this weekend, before it gets too cold.
Thanks for any input.

[forester1]

I bought some at the local lumberyard/building supply. It comes as a bag of dry or buckets premixed. I used the premixed buckets and spread it with a thin trowel. You want it not runny. Make it kind of like peanut butter, that's how it is in the tubs. Then spread it thin, less than 1/4 inch, closer to 1/8th inch.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Bascoms also sells the 50lb buckets for $ 30 and one bucket is about enough to firebrick a 2x6. The main thing is to make your mortar joints as thin as possible. You only want a skim coat. :D

[tstew]

New to this site, I have a couple of questions about bricking a new arch.
I just purchased a new 2x6 7" drop flue from a guy out of canada. It is supposed to be here this weekend. I am planning on bricking it with full bricks. My qeustions are approximatly how many bricks would u guess I need. He says about 75. Also wondering about fireboard can I just brick with the full bricks or should I use fireboard under the bricks. Thanks any help would be appreciated.

[backyardsugarer]

75 sounds about right. I used just bricks with a lot of cement. Be patient and get them cut right and make sure the temp is warm enough where you are bricking so the cement will set up. Look closely at the pan gaskets too and replace them if they look bad. $15 can save you ash flying all over especially if you have a blower.
Good Luck
Chris

[tstew]

Thanks for the help.

[forester1]

As far as using the fireboard or archboard you would lose significant firebox space with board and full brick in a 2x6. The advantage is cooler sides and more heat staying in the evaporator. Kind of a tossup and no right one way to do it, only preference or personal opinion. Brick and board together would cover a lot of the bottom of the pan on a 2x6 unless you switched to half size brick maybe on the top row.

[tstew]

Another qeustion, I have found a really good deal on new 1/2 size firebrick. My original plan was to line my 2 x 6 with full bricks. Wondering what some of u would suggest. Is the extra money for the full brick worth it in the long run. Thanks

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I have a 2x8 Leader drop flue and it took me about 140 bricks to do it. It is the new style arch that is 8" higher and square sided, so it takes more, but 75 seems too low of a number to me. :?

[tstew]

appreciate the advice.

[tstew]

Hate to keep beating a dead horse but I have another question of bricking.
I bricked my arch this year. First time bricking an arch. I've already boiled seems to be working good. The thing I noticed Sunday when using it was I did not brick the tin below the grates in the ash dump. Was wondering if I should have bricked this area as well.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I bricked my evaporator below the grates as I think it makes it a lot stronger and also the ashes are very hot with all the hot coals that fall down there. Don't know if it is neccessary, but think it would be beneficial in the long run. :?

[tstew]

I've got enough extra brick so I think I will take some time and brick it below the grates. Why not got the brick can't hurt anything. Thanks for the advice.

[lharris1]

I have a question on refractory in the arch of a raised flue system. The manufacturer says to fill the flue with zonolite to an inch below the pan, but when we test fired it before the start of the season a lot of it blew out. We then placed fire brick on top of the zonolite leaving about a inch clearance to the bottom of the flues. Is this bad? It seems like most of the rolling boil takes place in the first 24 inches of the 48 inch pan.

I would like to hear how others with raised flues set their's up.

[mapleman3]

I also put vermiculite or zonolite almost same thing... but I added ceramic blanket on top to stop that very thing of it blowing out, and I am withing 1/2 to 1/4 of the bottom of the flues. as I said on another post I think at the back of the arch I have too much of a space so I am not retaining as much of that heat like I should... that may be your problem your draft may be too much area under the flues and at the back where it slopes back to the flue stack

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

post edited

[mapleman3]

not totally closed up, just close, boils good though

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

If Jim is getting 40 gph, he must really know what he is doing to get that good of evap rate. One thing for sure is that he has a leg up on everyone else here as he is an oil man. :D

[deckers007]

Can you use the blanket or board by itself in the flu area? And just brick the firebox area?

[GramaCindy]

Can you use the blanket or board by itself in the flu area? And just brick the firebox area?

Sorry deckers007, my question is can you blanket UNDER firebrick? I am looking to increase my evaporator's insulation, rebricking to be done. I was wondering if anyone has had luck or suggestions on placing blanket under the firebrick? The high temp archboard is beyond my budget right now.

[C.Wilcox]

Gramma Cindy- what was the price of the archboard you looked at?

[GramaCindy]

another trader on here, I forget who talked about some arch board made by a company that sells in MPLS. Sharpe I think. They don't post prices on their website, but from his posts it sounded Very pricey. I was just thinking that the blanket is easier to install, easier to handle, less expensive and accessable at Andersons.

[C.Wilcox]

Buying archboard can be a bit of an adventure if you don't get it straight from a maple supply company. I bought mine from a refractory supply company that just happened to be up the road from my house and I believe it came out to approx. $3/sq. ft. which was the same price I could get blanket for, but it took a while to get them to tell me everything they had available. They were trying to sell me the stuff they cover the space shuttle with that was good to a bazillion degrees and is encrusted with diamonds. Once I finally told them how much I wanted to spend they offered me the material I bought (KFAC-19) and it has worked great. I don't know if you ever get down to Merrill, but Sleepy Hollow sells archboard as well and I believe it's around the same price I paid. To answer your original question though, any time you compress insulation you lose some of its insulatory capabilities, but I think you'd still see a pretty solid improvement with your blanket under the brick.

[Stamford sugarmaker]

delete....

[GramaCindy]

Buying archboard can be a bit of an adventure if you don't get it straight from a maple supply company. I bought mine from a refractory supply company that just happened to be up the road from my house and I believe it came out to approx. $3/sq. ft. which was the same price I could get blanket for, but it took a while to get them to tell me everything they had available. They were trying to sell me the stuff they cover the space shuttle with that was good to a bazillion degrees and is encrusted with diamonds. Once I finally told them how much I wanted to spend they offered me the material I bought (KFAC-19) and it has worked great. I don't know if you ever get down to Merrill, but Sleepy Hollow sells archboard as well and I believe it's around the same price I paid. To answer your original question though, any time you compress insulation you lose some of its insulatory capabilities, but I think you'd still see a pretty solid improvement with your blanket under the brick.
Thanks for the info, I was wondering about the compression myself. Never a good thing with any insulation. I don't get down near Merrill ever, but I will do some more checking, as I have access to MPLS.