Tapping near a landfill (dump)

[thenewguy]

I have a chance to tap a bush that was located near a landfill (dump) back in the 60's. The bush was tapped a number of years ago (not by me)and they never seemed to have any problems with sap. I'm unsure of what was dumped there and what have may leached into the ground. Am I crazy for even thinking about tapping this bush? Should I stay away, or is there any way to test the sap or ground around it? As I said some people tapped this bush in the past and never had problems...what do you think?

[RileySugarbush]

How badly do you want the trees? I'd stay away from it. There were very few controls on what was dumped back then. Way take the chance?

[barrelstove]

I found myself in a similar perdicament. i have access to 50 taps (effectively trippleing my capacity) but they are in a cemetary. can you say EEEEWWWW!!!!!!

if it were a newer cemetary with concrete vaults i wouldnt be as worried, but some of that cemetary is from the era of the pine box. nevertheless those sugars stand over there calling my name.

[Homestead Maple]

When I was in high school, a friend and I tapped all the trees along a cemetery and the Town roads in that area. If there's any real problem with the soil around the trees, would you think the trees would live? Any signs of severe die back? I wouldn't be afraid to tap them.

[brookledge]

I would agree with homestead, if there was anything bad in the soil it would affect the health of the tree. But another option is to take a sample of sap and have it tested like a water sample would be done. For a few $ a lab would tell you if there are any chemicals present. It is possible that there could be chemicals that are harmfull to humans but not to maple trees. So the question is, Will the tree suck up any of those chemicals in the roots or not?
Take a sample next spring or even put out a few taps this fall after the temps start to go into freeze thaw cycles. The sugar content will be low in the fall but who cares you are looking to see about the possible chemicals. Then if you get good results you have time to tap it in the spring
Keith

[thenewguy]

well thats what I was thinking, if the trees are healthy, the ground must be good. It was over 30 years ago that this landfill was closed, and the bush was tapped in the past... I just want to take the precautions

[peacemaker]

it might be hard to sell the syrup locally if anyone knows where u are tapping

[RileySugarbush]

Having the sap or syrup tested doesn't eliminate all possibilities of contamination. What would the normally test for? What would they test for if you said you were testing an old dump site? Anyone checking syrup would be looking for lead or other common potential problems, but would not necessarily look for PCB's from old transformers or who knows what else may be lurking. Those old dumps have the potential for leaching anything. Would you drive a shallow well pump next to one of these trees and take a drink of the water?

Maple trees are not necessarily sensitive to the same thing as humans. Just because they are growing fine, doesn't mean they don't suck up something nasty for us or our kids. I don't think fish die from mercury poisoning but there are human consumption advisories.....

[DS Maple]

Personally I wouldn't worry too much about where you tap. If everyone traced the history of their land a good number of them would probably find things out that they would rather not know. After all, there was time where large public dumps weren't all that common and people simply had a place somewhere on their land where everything went. In such cases there is no telling just what was discarded.
While I acknowledge that trees aren't impacted by all of the same things that humans are, I do on the other hand believe that if there was something in the soil that was so bad the trees would not have survived, particularly not after 30 years.
Lastly, in terms of the consumer market, there is such a thing as revealing too much information. I think that if you openly told people that bugs often have to filtered out of the sap a significant number of them might think twice about eating maple products. Obivously be honest, but keep people on a need-to-know basis.

[TapME]

Scott Nearing's book has a section on the ability of maple trees to filter out bad substances. Give it a check. Personally, the pine boxes have been in the ground way to long for them to give any more fertilizer to the ground. I would tap them and try a sample in a turkey fryer and give it a taste. Bet it is just as good as all the other trees. Land fills are just a little different, most of the water that leaches will follow the water table and will pass faster than the tree can take it in. I would be more worried about taping next to a gas station than a dump because of the mtbe in the fuel.

[ennismaple]

If you really want to tap there take a sample of the groundwater (dig a hole, let it fill up and fill a one cup specimin jar) and the sap from one of the trees to a lab for a full spectrum chemical analysis. They'll be able to tell you if anything exceeds allowable limits for human consumption. If you want to be double certain, boil down a few gallons of sap into syrup and have it tested for full spectrum as well - contaminants will be concentrated when you make sap into syrup.

Is the bush uphill or downhill from the dump? Obviously, groundwater won't flow uphill. Another thing to consider is most of the roots for maples are shallow so the chances of them picking up contaminants from groundwater are low.

[halfast tapper]

I wouldn't be to worried about it , everyone taps roadside trees, which as far as contamination are probably worse than being next to a dump. You have road salt, calcium chloride if on a dirt road, exhaust fumes everyday, leaking oil and fuel from cars and trucks.
The processed food we eat is probably more harmful to us than any sap that comes from a tree located anywhere near a dump or cemetary.

[MaplePancakeMan]

one must also remember that trees have a natural ability like an aquifer to filter out contaminants.

[Homestead Maple]

You're right MaplePancakeMan. Proctor Research has done tests for what's in maple sap and a person could get a good idea from those tests if you check their site, as to what is usually found in sap and the concentrations.

[brookledge]

I know that it would be great to put on the form for organic certification.
keith

[Just Enough]

I know this is an old thread, but out of curiousity I called Tim Perkins at the Proctor Center, and he indicated the following:

Salt - Maples definitely pick it up, and it can make the syrup taste salty

Heavy metals (mercury, lead) - their tests suggest that these materials get bound up in organic materials in the soil, and are not readily absorbed by maples.

PCBs - Not studied so far.


Mac

[peckfarm]

Perc test pits for every acre of sugar woods and a government certification approved by the EPA, FDA, USDA and local municipality. These must be filled out in triplicate at the beginning middle and end of every season or 3 times every month of the season which ever is more. The season shall be defined as March 1 through April 29. Tapping later or earlier will result in a mandatory tap audit, increase in producer tax and of course more testing. Tests results will be made available by the producer online, while waiting in line to submit the results and of course lined up on the wall of the the federally certified FDA-USDA-EPA-OSHA approved manufacturing facility. Said facility will be constructed using only recycled "green" materials and will meet all current, previous and unknown future zoning regulations as set forth by your town or by my town, which ever is more burdensome. All trees being tapped will be required to provide written permission to be tapped. Failure to obtain permission will result in lose of operating permit. Said permit will be obtained only after producer has demonstrated ability to fulfill previous requirements. Trees tapped near power lines, roads, gas stations, houses, animal habitats, cemeteries, landfills, rivers, other non-maple species or in areas frequented by birds are strictly off limits. Tapping a tree in previously designated area will result in a penalty of death. Good luck.

[Kev]

I have a guy that keeps trying to get me to tap his maples. they are along a sewer ditch. while the amount of real septic systems has greatly improved in the last 20 years. there are still several homes(dozens) that have not changed hands and have not upgraded. While it does not stink like it did when I was a kid. I ain't tappin trees with their roots going strait to that ditch.

[nace]

Perc test pits for every acre of sugar woods and a government certification approved by the EPA, FDA, USDA and local municipality. These must be filled out in triplicate at the beginning middle and end of every season or 3 times every month of the season which ever is more. The season shall be defined as March 1 through April 29. Tapping later or earlier will result in a mandatory tap audit, increase in producer tax and of course more testing. Tests results will be made available by the producer online, while waiting in line to submit the results and of course lined up on the wall of the the federally certified FDA-USDA-EPA-OSHA approved manufacturing facility. Said facility will be constructed using only recycled "green" materials and will meet all current, previous and unknown future zoning regulations as set forth by your town or by my town, which ever is more burdensome. All trees being tapped will be required to provide written permission to be tapped. Failure to obtain permission will result in lose of operating permit. Said permit will be obtained only after producer has demonstrated ability to fulfill previous requirements. Trees tapped near power lines, roads, gas stations, houses, animal habitats, cemeteries, landfills, rivers, other non-maple species or in areas frequented by birds are strictly off limits. Tapping a tree in previously designated area will result in a penalty of death. Good luck.

this must be factual, sounds just like legislation comming out of DC:mrgreen:. also sounds like the mayor on "best little whorehouse in texas"....oooo i love to dance a little sidestep......:lol:. nace

[Tweegs]

Been giving this some thought.

Lots of folks tap roadside trees, and I imagine many of those are along dirt roads.
Around my place, they come by after grading the road and apply a chemical to keep the dust down.

Now I’m sure there aren’t many folks out there, with a lick of sense anyway, that would want to draw a pot of that stuff straight from the truck to make their coffee.

To take it a step further, how can anyone say, with a straight face, that the dirt in those ditches, right up next to those roadside trees, isn’t contaminated? (oil, antifreeze)

Yet we all know there is a bunch of syrup made, sold, and eaten from those trees and I’ve never heard of any widespread outbreaks of illness related.

Kind of makes you wonder, don’t it?

[3rdgen.maple]

Tweegs someone can correct me if I am wrong and please feel free to but I do believe that a producer who is filed as Organic cannot tap roadsides due to the points you just made.