how do your reverse a syrup pan ?

[Brent]

I got a non-reversing pan with my 2 x 6 and this year was terrible for sand.

So I am thinking of:
1) get a second pan same as the first. clean one while boiling with the other.

2) get a reversible pan. To my understanding this needs to be lifted off and rotated 180 degrees and re-connected. So I'm guessing to do this you have to let the fire die down to almost nothing. Changing simple pans in 1) above would need the same thing. Could you slide a piece of sheet metal under the pan while swapping or reversing ???

3) get a revolution style pan. I saw one of these working a few weeks ago. Just move a couple of plugs and it's done. Is there a bad side to this style. The builder of my rig tried to explain that some part of the syrup did not finish or boil, but I did not understand what he meant.

[Amber Gold]

Not having seen a revolution style pan, I would think that it should work fine proide you drew off a good amount to get the stuff in the middle of the pan to the edge and just dump it back in the syrup or flue pan. Otherwise you'll end up with syrup being made in the middle until the first flush is through.

Not an expert, but I think I've read something simliar to this in other threads. I think this would be true of any reversing setup.

My front pan is reversible and I wanted to buy/make a reversible flue pan so I could clean out the whole system without shutting down. Would I need to be concerned about making syrup in the flue pan when I reverse it?

[Fred Henderson]

I got a non-reversing pan with my 2 x 6 and this year was terrible for sand.

So I am thinking of:
1) get a second pan same as the first. clean one while boiling with the other.

2) get a reversible pan. To my understanding this needs to be lifted off and rotated 180 degrees and re-connected. So I'm guessing to do this you have to let the fire die down to almost nothing. Changing simple pans in 1) above would need the same thing. Could you slide a piece of sheet metal under the pan while swapping or reversing ???

3) get a revolution style pan. I saw one of these working a few weeks ago. Just move a couple of plugs and it's done. Is there a bad side to this style. The builder of my rig tried to explain that some part of the syrup did not finish or boil, but I did not understand what he meant.



If that is a cross flow then you should have an extra pan, if it is not an you can not reverse flow unless you rotate to pan 180 drg, then you still should have an extra pan.

[peacemaker]

why cant patrick make u a second float box and draw off on the pan u have ?

[chrisnjake9]

Hi, my name is Jason this is my first response on Trader. I also had trouble this year with sugar sand. I couldn't go a whole day without cleaning my pan. I have a 2' x 6' L.S. Bilodeau, this is my 1st year boiling with this rig. What I have done was push the fire to the back of the pan, shut the floats off, draw off as much syrup as I dare, put water and pan cleaner in the front pan, scrubbed it with a sponge then rinsed it 3x's, turned the float back on to push the water out and pulled the fire back to the front of the pan and kept right on boiling. I used to have a Small Brothers 2x6 Lighting evap which you could just switch sides to draw. I'm interested in the Merlin's and wondering about their future. Thanks for the pioneering.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I can reverse my 2x8 in about 30 to 60 seconds at full boil and never slow down. It is a drop flue, so I have an extra plug and plug off the non drawoff side. I then draw off about 2 gallons from the nondrawoff side or the light side, whatever you want to call it and dump it into the heavy side. Drawing off the light side gets the heavy flowing that way and then dump the light syrup into the heavy side pushes the heavy syrup along it's way much faster. I had done it the other way, drawing off the heavy side and dumping into the light side until this year, but I like this way better. I then switch plug in the float box on the flue pan float and pull the plug on what was the drawoff side of they syrup pan, and it never slows down. Entire process takes about 30 to 60 seconds and if the sand is heavy, I will reverse about every 3 to 4 hours.

[Sugarmaker]

Brandon,
Thanks for describing this. I have never done it on the fly but the literature on the King evaporator that I have found describes it just like you mentioned. My only draw back now is that I dont have a ball valve int front of the marcland unit so I switch sides only after the evaporator has cooled ( next day generally).

I may have to think about this more We had a lot of sand this year and I had some scorch very minor under some sand and did not see it until I reversed and totally drain the pans.

Regards,
Chris

[brookledge]

I have a revolution pan. I'm very happy with it as I'm a 1 man band wagon. To reverse flow takes about 5 seconds and that is if I'm not in a hurry otherwise it's about 3 seconds. I have heard many comments about the fact that there is the extra box outside of the pan causing it to cool down too much. But as the sap comes from the flue pan to my syrup pan it is boiling as soon as it enters the syrup pan. I know that alot of people like to take there pans off and rotate them 180 degrees to reverse the flow but thats not for me. With a revolution pan you can literally put the arch tight to the opposite side wall if you wanted to. In a year like this I was rotating my direction more than ever and never had to slow down to do it.
Keith

[Brent]

Keith
I was sitting contemplating my navel watching the boil and decided to check the temp of the sap coming out of the pre-heater. It wasn't easy to measure but I figured by the time it stated going into the flue pan, it had lost 10 to 15 degrees. Not a big deal but I then got a piece of silvered mylar bubble wrap and taped it on all sides but the top. Looked like it held the temp drop to about 5 degrees.

Might be something to try on the revolution style float boxes.

Sometimes you're just sittin' there with nothin' better to do anyway.

[SeanD]

Hey Brandon or Keith,

Would either of you mind posting a close-up pic of those openings/plugs you are talking about? I'm adding sections into my pan and I'm very interested in the quick change of directions you guys get.

Thanks,
Sean

[brookledge]

the plug I have is, is about 2" in dia. and has a slight taper to it so when it is pushed into the female fitting in the pan it wedges in and stays in place.
Keith

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I won't be at the sugarhouse for about 3 weeks due to get ready to go to Disney World end of next week for 8 or 9 days, but if you remind me, I will try to when I get back. I plug the stainless connnection hole from the flue pan coming into the float box on whichever side I am drawing off and both sides for the 30 to 60 seconds I am reversing flow.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Adding to what Keith said, the stainless plug has a handle on it about 8 to 10 inches long and you don't have to worry about being close to the syrup. Leader has a nice plug system and the plugs fit tight easily and work great.

[Brent]

Breaking News

I asked Patrick a bunch of questions about making a reversing pan and making something like a revolution pan.

Today I got an response, not directly answering anything but simply, "I've got something better than a revolution pan" with a drawing. I'm not sure Patrick would want me to put his drawing on line, but if you look at the picture of our evaporator about half way down the home page of my web site, you will see that the syrup pan has two vertical boxes about 4" square on one side. The front one is for draw off ( not fitted in the picture ) and the rear one has the float box connected.
For the new design chop the float box down in length and have the feed pipe come out the bottom instead of the end, and run it to the bottom of both of the 4" square boxes and put a ball valve on the pipe just under each square box. Now you can open one and close the other and feed sap into the front or the back of syrup pan. (or both if things got really panicy one day) Each of the boxes will also have a port for connecting your draw off rig - ball valve or Marcland or whatever just like in the photo on my web site. No plugs anywhere.

So I'm thinking after about 3 hours of boiling
- shut off the ball valve on the flue pan,
- draw a gallon or two of near syrup off into a pail.
- close one of the lower ball valves, open the other
- pour the "near" syrup into the channel nearest the new draw off
- open the ball valve on the from the flue pan.

I like it. He's asked me to send my float box and syrup pan for the mods.
I think I'll take him up on it.

There have been a number of people post about where to get new pans. I think this would be worth looking into. Might have some pictures in a month or two or ......

[SeanD]

the plug I have is, is about 2" in dia. and has a slight taper to it so when it is pushed into the female fitting in the pan it wedges in and stays in place.
Keith

Does it have a rubber or silicone gasket around it? Brandon mentioned the 8-10" handle. Does it stick up at a 90 deg. angle? Sorry for the dumb questions. I'm a visual learner.

Sean

[hard maple]

Brent
why would you have to make an adjustment after 3 hours of boiling??
This year I made over 50 gallons of syrup before I took the pan off and cleaned it. mine is a 2x2 syrup pan as well.

[Brent]

Hard Maple
Maybe you will recall my post early in our season, I was asking if anyone could tell me why I was not boiling in the last channel of the syrup pan. We speculated on cold from the sugar shack doors, poor firing, too much draft, etc.

Finally I discovered the problem when the scorching smell started. The sand was so thick. Consider yourself blessed to get 50 hours to the cleanup. Best I did this year was near the end, something like 7 hours before I could see the boil change, and I knew if I didn't quit what would happen next.

My previous years with the Half Pint we could go longer, but not much. Scorched that one pretty good one day. Looks like it's something in the minerals in the soil here or the genetics of the local trees.

Gotta be prepared for that next year. Can't be losing that much time.
And this year we had a real poor sap flow. If we had a normal flow I would have been a zombie cleaning the pan all night.
Patrick is going to make a pair of these new pans. I'll b

[hard maple]

Brent
the sugar sand was the most I've ever seen this year too.
I did rotate my pan 180 degrees, plus a cleaning mid season.
But a spare pan would also be a good investment should a disaster occur...

[Brent]

yeah if you get sloppy and scorch a pan good you could lose a whole day trying to get it cleaned enough to get rid of the bad flavor.

When you look at the total investment and maybe 3-4 weeks of a season, the cost of the extra pan is cheap insurance in case of disaster. If things go smoothly, it helps take the pressure off because you can take your time to clean the first pan while boiling in the first.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Sean,

The plug is solid stainless with a stainless handle, nothing else. As Keith said, it is slightly tapered or the plug gets slightly larger from front to back to get a nicely tight seal inside the stainless pipe that comes into the front pan.