Syrup is always dark

[PA mapler]

This is my fourth year with the new fancy, 2' x 6' evaporator, and I have yet to make any medium or light syrup on it. Even the first, crystal-clear sap runs on scrubbed-clean pans doesn't make a difference. My first years syruping, on big flat pans, we made all the grades, so I'm mystified why this new rig with the flues and floats and fast boiling can't produce some too. I like the darker grades myself better, too, but the higher grades sell for more in bulk.

Can I be getting my syrup pan too hot? I have a blower in the ash door. My sap doesn't sit around, I get right to it, and I have a big insulated SS tank that it runs into. Any ideas?

[Brent]

do you have a stack thermometer ??? how hot are you running ?

[Sugarmaker]

Beth,

Red maples? and or a slow boil? What is your evaporation rate? Should be around 20-25 GPH. Are you close to that? If you are then it could be the soft maples?

We couldn't figure out how to make dark amber this year. We even slowed to 1/4 boiling rate on Taste and Tour days and still made nice medium when we kicked it in gear after the event both days.

We made all light and medium syrup. the last syrup we made was lighter then the first run

Chris

[PA mapler]

I run between 600-700 degrees on the stack. Evaporation rate 30-35 gallons per hour, with the hood, blower and preheater. Can you get things TOO hot? Though, the first year I didn't have all that hoopla, and still didn't make lighter stuff. But then maybe that was just a bad year.

[tapper]

Beth,

No I dont beleive you can get too hot wth your evaporator. Too hot with your syrup yes but, it would have to be on there a long time to darken normally light syrup. Actually if you are boiling too slow that could darken your syrup but, 30-35 gph on your 2x6 that is definitly not the case with you either.
I remember you asking this last season. It has me stumped because I make light syrup every year and the only time it gets dark is late in the season when I start boiling cloudy sap which was the case yesterday. You should be making at least some light or medium syrup and it would be bugging me too if I weren't.
Also this year wasnt the lightest syrup I've ever made and the entire season I had a real hard time deciding if it were light or medium and it varied very little thru the season till yesterday when there was a definite difference.
Next year I may take a tour of sugar houses and I will come by and see what you are up to.

[Brent]

from what you've posted I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're doing.

Maybe just the drought last summer and fall and maybe you've got your tongue in the wrong side of your cheek

[maplwrks]

Beth,
How Deep Are You Running Your Pans??

[PA mapler]

Thanks guys for your replies. I know my trees can make light stuff, because with my old flat pans I did it every year. I did add alot of red maples this year, which I hear can darken syrup. Now, I run about 1.5 inches above the flues in the sap pan, and 1.75 inches in the syrup pan. Could that be it?

[PA mapler]

Maplewrks - I just checked my Producer's Manual, and it said to flood the pans to approximately 1". Maybe you nailed it! I'm going to change the level as soon as I fire up again tonight, and see what happens. Thanks!

[HHM-07]

Beth your flue pan should be more than an inch you need the volume to fill your front pan in at timely fashion when you draw your syrup off , how long to you go between draws , shouldn't be more than 15 -- 20 mins do you have a gate between your 2 front sections, if you did that would help. my brother i8nlaw has the same problem on his 2x6.there is nothing wrong with lite or med amber

[325abn]

Other than cleanleness, isnt it true that we have to take what Mother gives us when it comes to color?

[ennismaple]

How long the sap sits before you boil it, how long it takes to get through your evaporator and how long partially finished syrup sits in the pans also affects colour.

[PA mapler]

I draw off about a gallon at a time, once every hour or so. I wait until it's almost syrup (maybe a few "lines" or percentages above the red mark on the hydrometer), and draw off very slowly, watch the dial thermometer then, and quit when it drops 2 degrees. I take up to 5 minutes to draw off, because I run it right into a pre-filter to filter out the worst of the ash and spiders. That way, when I finish a big batch in the small pan, it's almost syrup, and takes only 10-15 minutes to get it to syrup. Then I do the final filtering with the felt.

Obviously, if I should be drawing off every 15-20 minutes, I'm doing something majorly wrong. Which is probably why my syrup is always dark. WAY too much cooking time. I'll take it down to 1", and see what happens to the draw-off times. What kind of depths are you guys using in the syrup pan?

[gmcooper]

Beth try running with max 1 inch in your front pan. If possible try 1/2 to 3/4".
You'll find you get better evaporation and more consistant draws. You will make lighter syrup in the process. With all my drop flues I generally run 1/2 - 3/4 even in flue pan ( only one float anyway). With a good hard boil sometimes the flues are just barely covered.
Mark

[royalmaple]

Beth-

I'm in the same boat but to make matters even worse I'm RO'ing the sap too. So go figure, I was thinking with the RO I'd be making lighter grades, not necessarily light syrup but lighter grades. Nope natta zilch zippo.

I run my syrup pan about 1 1/4 inches deep, and I draw off about 2 gallons per draw about every 15 mins when I'm going. Flue pan is almost dry on top of the flues. Just a wave over them. So it's not sitting around long in the pans but she's dark, and I don't mean dark amber. That was same days sap right in the ro, recirculated and into the evap that night. This sap is about 99.9875 red maples. I've ro'd it to 10% and tonight I'm going a single pass through and making about 6% sap from 1.6 gonna see what that does for me. If it doesn't help I'm saving my sap till june and concentrating it to 30% and make 50 gallons in 1/2 hour.

It seems like a right of passage to make light syrup. Like you've finally made it as a sugarmaker or something. I don't care about that I just want to stay in the A grades as long as I can.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I have found that reds tend to make darker syrup from the start, The RO helping to lighten it up is debateable, I beleive alot of the color in syrup comes not only from time boiling, but inpurities in your sap, ie bacteria, minerals from the tree etc, the RO just concentrates these.. Sometimes cleaning pans and filtering the half boiled befor putting it back in will help get a grade back. probabley the best defence you have to making dark syrup, is skimming the rear pan. I know this is hard with a hood, but if you don't have one skim skim skim...

Andy

[royalmaple]

Andy-

I'm skimming and wiping down the pan each night. Its not crystal clear in there but not a sludge factory either. I ran the whole front and rear pans through the filter press last night got alot of sand out and muck. See if that helps today. Not sure though.

I hate grading syrup anyway so I guess at this rate just drum it up and let someone tell me what it is. Can't do any worse than commercial so at least I know my limits.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Royal, I have also found that if you RO sap and let it sit it makes darker syrup, and I mean let it sit for just a few hours, when you ro its better to get 50 gal ahead of the evap, and then start boiling, as you run it through the ro.. Not only does the RO concentrate the sugar, but it also concentrates the bacteria.. with that high a bacteria concentration, the sap does the spoiling process that much qiucker.. I have seen sap that was crystal clear run through a ro and after it set for a few hours it was yellow, yellow like most people dump...

[royalmaple]

Could be it. Not sure. I do understand what you are saying about concentrating the bacteria. I agree.

But darkening to the point where fresh sap is only making commercial syrup?

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

I have found a direct relation between sugar cont in sap to the syrup I make, 3% I make fancy 2.5 I make Med 2 I make dark 1.5 I make B and under 1.5 gets drummed, this is no matter what I concentrate to...

Matt, You looking for more sugar bushes??? I know whrere there is one in Gorham the guy isn't tapping anymore, not sure if he would lease it or not..

[tapper]

I was wondering about that sugar content thing yesterday. I havn't tapped these road trees for 4 or more years. This season with sap from the road trees there is a definite difference in color in the syrup from the 2% sap from the woods trees and the 3% sap of the road trees.

I never mixed the 2 different saps as I boiled and when I ran the road tree 3% sap thru the syrup always lightened. I am not using an ro. One difference would be the 3% is in the evaporator for a shorter time. Another difference I have noticed also is I make lighter syrup on the heavier runs no matter what part of the season it is and the road trees give way more sap than the woods trees.

[HHM-07]

the higher % your sap is the less boiling time you have the less boiling the lighter the syryp i know you already know that . there seems to be a lot of snot in the sap this year and that requires more cleaning
good luck

[Amber Gold]

Would it be worthwhile to get a UV sterilizer? Not sure if it would fix your problem by killing all the critters.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I wouldn't know what 2% sap looks like and I made almost 50% light with a little medium this year and this is sometimes holding the sap for several days.

I disagree with most of the points made. I run my evaporator close to 2" deep, hold the sap sometimes as long as a week and usually at least 24 to 48 hours or more, usually average sugar content around 1.7 to 1.8 percent the entire season and run stack temps of 1400 to 1600 and still make plenty of light. Never made anything darker than "A" dark this year.

Seems like Beth's problem might be because she has all red maples. Either way, nothing to worry about as the demand for dark is probably higher than about any other color now.

[PA mapler]

Looks like my depth was my biggest problem. I changed the float to 1", and by the time I had to quit the color had come back into dark, from rot-gut "C". It was a very interesting day. Right off, I just about boiled over when I tried to condense 1.75 inches to 1". I actually got some burnt spots that I didn't discover until I got back tonite, which just finished cleaning up. I won't make that mistake again!

And, I had to figure out a whole new draw-off method. My dial thermometer wasn't deep enough for a reading, and the fluid was too shallow to get a good scoop with the hydrometer cup. I ended up sticking an alcohol lab thermometer thru the dial-hole, and rested it's end right on the bottom of the pan. Then I'd watch the temp, and draw off a sample right at the spigot to check, and away I'd go. I was drawing off about once every 30 minutes or so.

With a clean pan, tomorrow should go much more smoothly! Wish me luck. . . . . and thanks for all the responses!

[tapper]

Good luck Beth. Would like to hear that you make some nice medium by the end of the day!

[Sugarmaker]

Beth, you out there? Earth to Beth, you still boiling? Any luck with all these suggestions? Getting pretty late to get all the way back to light but. We did make lighter syrup on our last boil this year than the first boil?

Matt, Mentioned the right of passage about making light syrup. I didnt make any light syrup for 35 years! Yes we all want to make the lightest syrup possible. Our neighbor taps almost all reds and used a bubbler in the front pan to keep making light syrup this year. There are things you can do if thats your goal but sometimes its just good to make some good tasting dark syrup!

Hope things are going well as you end your season.

Regards,
Chris