Sap Puller verse vacuum

[white mt]

I would like to know if any one out their has one of these sap pullers? I would like to get myself started with vacuum or the puller for next year. I know little about both other than the price to set up vacuum for 800+taps is alot more than a new sap puller. So whats the big draw back with the puller verse say setting up my system with vacuum ? I dont want to redo my whole setup in the bush its only 3 years old. And the way I understand it I should size the maine line right along with a long list of redos in order to have the cfm right at the tap hole. Or do I bite the bullet and redo the woods and spend the money for the vacuum set up. Is vac that much better than a sap puller that works alone. A new puller is $ 1800 from goodrich maple in cabot vt. Thanks Dan

[tuckermtn]

I'm no expert, but I have run both a sap sucker and a small more conventional vac system on the same bush- small set up, only 100+/- taps. I would think with an 800 tap bush you would not be able to run it on a sap sucker type system as the ammount of vac and CFM would not be able to do that many taps.

What is your tubing set- up like currently? size of mainline, length of mainline, how much pitch do you have? Average # of taps per lateral? If the existing tubing set up is done reasonibly well, then you may not have to frig with it much. You may be able to just run a piston type vacuum pump (like a surge SP-22) and then get a releaser- the releaser is where the $$ is.

After running the sap sucker last season and struggling to get 5" of hg, I bit the bullet and went with the conventional pump and releaser set up...right off the bat was up to 21-23" of hg. The plan is to work up to close to 200 taps on this set up, but I know with a small bush like I have, the pay back is way over the horizon...I spent $500 on the releaser, $80 on a surge sp-11, another $50 for a motor, and then another 150 for misc. fittings, check valves, etc...

I bet with 800 taps, you could get a decent vac. system for $1200-1500 - depending on how new you want to go with pumps, motors, etc... so to get your payback you would have to produce an additional 35-40 gallons of syrup (at an average of $35 per gallon- half wholesale, half retail) to pay back- course that doesn't factor in the extra wood/oil you would need to burn, the extra hours firing, the extra jugs, etc...then there is the bigger evap you'll need with all the extra sap...

I have not done the numbers on how the vac has increased our yield this season- but the folks at Proctor in Vt. have done that research...

[royalmaple]

white mtn-

clear up some space in your private messages, I tried sending you one but can't.

[white mt]

Ok thanks I have space now Dan

[white mt]

THis is a short list of my set up. I have a 3/4 main line that that gos 1000 ft up a steep grade side of a hill. The main line splits at a y about 100 ft from the collect tank at the bottom. Their is about 400 or so taps on each side. On the lat lines most have 10-12 taps each but some are long with 16 or so taps. I dont want to replace 2000 ft of main line. But I need moor sap. Any and all suggestions welcomed

[Lance]

Like tuckermtn, I'm no vac expert but last year I did run a Sap Puller and this year am running a Surge SP-22 with a Lapierre double vertical releaser.

Last year, we had about 850 taps, this year between 1100-1200. IMHO, there's no comparison between the two. The Sap Puller is real susceptible to ANY leaks in your system, even small ones. I remember walking my lines hour after hour, day after day looking for leaks and muttering stuff that shouldn't be repeated in polite company. The absolute max I could get with the Puller was 18 in. and those times were few and far between. Most of the time, I was pulling between 8 to 12 in. It was certainly better than no vacuum at all but the SP-22 is what I was looking for. It's got a 5 1/2 horse gas engine and will pull 23-25 in. at just above an idle.

Knock on wood, but so far, I couldn't be happier with the Surge and Lapierre setup. Remember, the Puller is a diaphragm pump and does not move any air.

If you want more info, etc., feel free to PM me. Good luck with whatever you choose!

[802maple]

You would better to split the the 2 mainlines and bring them both to your releaser with a vacuum pump instead of a sap puller. I don't know the lay of your land but you might think about in the future to add another mainline or 2 to take a few taps off each of the present mainline. They basically move sap which creates vacuum but one little leak and all is lost, not to say that you won't want to check for vacuum leaks all the time, but vacuum is better.

[Mark-NH]

I set up 2 bushes this year on vacuum for the first time. Both have the same number of taps-220 +/-. One was set up with a surge sp-11 on a 5.5 hp Honda motor and a singe Giles Bernard releaser (one of Parker's old set ups). The other one has a 2 head "Sap Puller" that came from Goodrichs. Here are my observations.

Sap Puller has many fewer moving parts and is much easier to set up and keep running. The initial expense was less as well and it doesn't take up much space in the off season. It does not use a releaser as the sap is pulled through the diaphragm pumps and pushed into the storage tank. It will only create 18" of vacuum no matter what you do or how tight your system is. It does not create a lot of volume (not sure if this is the correct term) so it is much more affected by leaks. A couple small, barely detectable leaks around the taps will drop it down to 15" quickly.

The sp-11 has no problem creating and maintaining 22" but you need to keep an eye on the pump, motor and releaser to make sure all are performing in unison. The releaser can stick, the pump needs oil and can be troublesome on cold morning, etc.

Performance for both have been comparable this season. In fact, I would not be able to say one has outperformed the other to this point. The deciding factor may be that you are using an existing tubing installation. If you go with the Sap Puller, go with the 4 head for that amount of taps. Also be prepared to spend a lot of time initially walking lines and cutting out leaks. With the Sap Puller you will need to find leaks that you would not worry about with the sp-11. Do you plan on future expansion? If so, the sp-11 certainly will handle more taps.

I went through the same thought process as you last year and was leery of purchasing a Sap Puller. Truth of the matter is I came across an affordable used one so I decided to give it a try and have been pleasantly surprised. The guy that makes these units is located in St. Johnsbury and is more than willing to help out with questions.

[adk1]

Could you tell me if this is flat land or hill? Just curious to know for my setup as I am on all gravity right now.

[wildlifewarrior]

Bump for adk1

Thanks
Mike