too much defoamer

[The Sappy Steamer]

I had sent for literature from The Institute For Maple Education called "Boiling 101" tips and tricks to make better syrup. In the book there is a section on the proper use of defoamer. They say on a 2 foot wide evaporator I should be using 3 drops every 5-8 mins. in the flue pan. I tried 3 drops every 25 mins and could taste defoamer in the syrup and had a slick on top as the syrup cooled. Up until now I've been using it on an "as needed basis" Is their info correct? Or does that seem pretty heavy duty on the defoamer?

[Brent]

The old guy I've been listening too says
"get an egg timer, set it for 6 minutes.
when it goes off, reset it, load the wood, put in 4 drops of de-foamer and sit down."

If you can taste it my guess is you need a different defoamer, or some fresh stuff.
Lots of it is a fat product that might go rancid.

[Dave Puhl]

What are you using for a defoamer?

[Brent]

I'm using Leader's Atmos 300

[Mike Van]

I use Atmos too, but only if I have foam - Might be 1 drop in 10 min. or might be 30 min. No foam, no de-foamer.

[The Sappy Steamer]

I'm using Atmos also. Bought a new quart at the start of the season. Took out a small bottle and froze the rest. I would think that the prefered method would be to put a couple drops in the flue pan every so often. Otherwise, by the time you need it you're playing catch up in the syrup pan. The amount you need seems like it would vary to me based on how hot your fire is burning and where conditions are concentrating your heat because of draft.
When I was adding it based on time alone, I could see the defoamer like a slick in the end of the finishing pan. Seemed to filter out, but because I'm not sure, I won't sell it.

[Russell Lampron]

I use canola oil for a defoamer and only add it as needed. I think the producers of the defoamer want to sell more product so they recommend a heavy dose. One drop kills the foam real quick in a 2x4 flue pan and even with a hood I can tell when more is needed. The doors on my hood will make a popping sound when the foam is starting to build.

[802maple]

The only time I use defoamer is when it is going out of the pan. I have been boiling for nearly 40 years and in all that time combined I haven't used a pint total. There is a belief that it boils faster with the foam down. I did some experimenting with my oil fired evaporator where everything is equal and with a flow meter, Also my sap was pumped up to my feed tank 60 gallons to a time by a float switch. I watched the flow meter and the timed the sap going up to my tank and there was no difference in the evaporation rate.

[Brent]

The old guy I was talking to about defoamer was trying to convince me that the evaporation rate was higher with more defoamer. I find that hard to accept.

I have a small bottle of Atmos that I got at the beginning of last year. I haven't used a tablespoon yet.

First day boiling on the new rig and I was putting drops in the syrup pan every now an then, suffering a major brain cramp, did not put any in the flue pan.
Won't forget that again. Now I look in frequently and add a few drops every half hour or so. None is not enough. Every 6 minutes is more than we need on this rig and our sap.

[mapleman3]

Russ, I too use good ole canola oil from the kitchen , I have a small glass with a popsicle stick and I just take the stick and dripp a couple drops in every now and then... not religiously, the commercial defoamer is just concentrated veggy oil and something else(who knows) so I get mine for free(from the wife) use about a few ounces a season thats it.

[802maple]

Any defoamer that you get from a dealer doesn't mean it is new, It all comes in a fifty five gallon drum and gets repackaged into smaller containers and what is on the shelf at the end of the season just gets sold the next year. I use the kasher powdered defoamer that Lappierre and Maple pro sell, I have seen and had to many bad experiences with the Atmos stuff. Just a small pinch when needed will last a long time. I might put it in every 45 minutes or so when it is ready to boil over the outside, I don't worry about it mixing in the evaporator.

[Dave Puhl]

I use canola oil..just in the sap pan as needed it only take a few drops if I dont use it it foams over and yes it does help the boil of the sap

[maplecrest]

i have a dripper on my steamaway that i would fill every morning before boil. i felt that i was useing too much that way. now i stopped useing it and use on an as needed only.in the steamaway. and a small amount in the finish pan. have used very little this season. compared to what i was useing.the biggest problem i have had was sugar content in the hot water comming off the steamaway with out defoamer.

[danno]

Two boil overs earlier this season has changed my strategy. I used to add when needed - but it's kind of hard to see when the flue pan needs it with the tight hood. Now I add a few drops in the rear float box every 1/2 hour or so. Has worked well.

[Bucket Head]

Guy's,

Glenn Goodrich reccomend's diluting the Atmos 300 defoamer with a 10:1 ratio. One part defoamer and 10 part's water.

Those of us with the smaller evaporator's are more prone to this; ever open up a container of syrup and see an "oil slick" on top of the syrup? I used to. Too much defoamer was used. Just a trace amount of defoamer will break the surface tension of the bubble's.

Steve

[The Sappy Steamer]

Wow, very interesting stuff. Lots of helpful perspectives. Thanks guys

[hard maple]

what is a good method to apply the powdered defoamer?

[802maple]

I just pinch a little between my fingers and throw it in the back pan or rear float box. It lasts much longer than the oils.

[tapper]

I ran my 2x6 leader evaporator for 10 years with adding defoamer as needed with no problems and the small bottle lasted for many seasons.
Last season was the 1st on a new 30" x 8' leader inferno arch and blower. I had problems at drawoff and was informed I had too much foam and was to add defoamer after each firing. I started doing that and really didnt see much difference. This season so far I have used 1 entire bottle of atmos and it seems to have little to no affect on the foam. Being out of atmos I have been using crisco and canola oil. Yesterday partway thru the day the syrup pan started foaming and using crisco had absolutly no affect. I tried canola and again nothing. It had me wondering if I was using too much? Or maybe there is not enought fat in canola? Maybe too it was just a condition of the day and nothing could be done?

[TDVT]

We stopped at Goodrich's on Saturday during the VT Maple open house weekend.
Their syrup pan is long (16" X 72" approx?) on it's own small arch & he was adding defoamer every few minutes. I think he said he was using organic sunflower oil.

[danno]

Or Jon, maybe you just had that Inferno rockin'. Not to steal the thread, but what can you boil off an hour on that 30x8? I bet if you turned off your blower, you could bring the foam back under control:)




I ran my 2x6 leader evaporator for 10 years with adding defoamer as needed with no problems and the small bottle lasted for many seasons.
Last season was the 1st on a new 30" x 8' leader inferno arch and blower. I had problems at drawoff and was informed I had too much foam and was to add defoamer after each firing. I started doing that and really didnt see much difference. This season so far I have used 1 entire bottle of atmos and it seems to have little to no affect on the foam. Being out of atmos I have been using crisco and canola oil. Yesterday partway thru the day the syrup pan started foaming and using crisco had absolutly no affect. I tried canola and again nothing. It had me wondering if I was using too much? Or maybe there is not enought fat in canola? Maybe too it was just a condition of the day and nothing could be done?

[tapper]

Danno,

I only run my fan at 3/4 throttle as it is for fear of melting my base stack. I never had foam all season til partway thru yesterday and it is foaming the same today but today I went with no defoamer to start . The foam got no worse so I added just a few drops and nothing no difference at all. All drawoffs went smoothly tho so I am not worried about it.

I average around 75gph but with the right day I have hit over 100 gph with it and this season today is the day. I just boiled off 250 gallons in 2 1/2 hrs. Stack temp averages 1200 but I've had it to 1400 no problem. I held the fan speed back even more today because I wasnt in a hurry. It sure beats the 25 gph on the old 2x6 I had.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Jon,

I run my stack temps 1400 to 1600 and sometimes pushing 1700 and my stack still looks the same. If you have stainless, I don't think you are going to hurt your stack any.

[tapper]

Hahaha yaaa I really dont think I can but I have had it a pretty cherry red and it looks like you could stick your finger right thru it. Not gonna try that tho.

[maplehound]

I have always used the powder defaomer and have really liked it. I don't have to worry about it spoiling over the summer and it is easy to use. I ussually add a little to a defoamer cup that I hang in the flue pan. Then I also keep a salt shaker with some in it. Occasionally I will add a couple shakes to the flue pan, the sap float box, and near the draw off of my syrup pan. The cup in the flue pan usssually last for a couple days of boiling, When I first fill it I ussually don't need to add any more to the flue pan or the float box, but during the second day I need to start adding some with the shaker.

You should see the visitors faces when they see me adding what they believe is salt!!!!!!!!! I will then explain what it is. I sometimes get the same expresion when I add that white powder that the believe is powder sugar to my hot syrup before I filter it.

[tapper]

I stopped using defoamer this week altogether and found out I didnt need it. But tomorrow will be a different day.