Fluid for liquid ring pump

[Homestead Maple]

What are people using for the cooling/sealing liquid for anyone using a liquid ring vacuum pump that is in a remote location and you don't have heat to keep a pump warm? I'm thinking about the non-toxic antifreeze for RV's but I wondered if there was something less expensive if you have to have more than 80 gallons?

[royalmaple]

I used regular antifreeze. I mixed 6 gallons with about 30 water. I didn't feel the need 50/50 for like -30. Next year I'm gonna put a bigger tank, but it is working fine.

If you haven't already done so put in a recirculation line it will make all the difference in keeping the solution cool.

[Homestead Maple]

The land that I have these taps on is USFS land and I feel that if they were concerned about a spill of any kind they would require that I use non-toxic antifreeze so I'll try the RV stuff for now unless someone can think of something else. I'd even use some recycled stuff if it was available. I've asked local plumbers to save any of the stuff that they drain from hot water heat systems. That is non-toxic. I only need to fill the storage tank once because the pump keeps recirculating the liquid.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

Do you have a rv sales/service place there?? They will drain RV's in the spring and probabley give you all you want...

[gmcooper]

We used the green automotive antifreeze. I think it was last week we got a call from the dealer we got our pump from that we should only use the green auto anti freeze. Something about the pink/orange was corrosive with the impeller in the pump. I know there are a few on here that use the RV stuff. I never thought it would hold up as it is not intended to be constantly pumped and agitated the way the liquid ring pumps work.

[Homestead Maple]

The pump has a stainless impeller and shaft but I didn't know that the RV stuff wouldn't take the constant recirculation. Makes sense, seeings how it's used the way it is in a RV. The info with the pump said to use a service liquid which is clean, non-abrasive and free of any solids. The temperature should not exceed 80 C/176 F and the viscosity should be less than 40 C and the service liquid should have the same properties as water at 60 F.
I'll have to give the pump manufacturer a call and see what they say about liquids other than water.

[maplecrest]

i have been debating the same problem. my pump is in a cow barn.[no mishaps there] do not want to use green. bought 42 gallons of rv. but have not used it yet. been wondering about the movement and heating of it. and if it would beak down. when to f.w webbs they told me that there non toxic heat anti is toxic to animals. and put me on the rv trail. it is cheep at 3 dollars a gallon compared to all others. but i know my impeller is not stainless.so i am still out on what i am going to do

[PATheron]

Jeff- Have your trees started to run good yet or are you still waiting on the weather? Theeron

[halfast tapper]

Homestead maple,
If you don't mind me asking how much does a lease cost with the USFS taps?
What department do you contact?
Do you have to take your lines down every year?
Thanks

[maplecrest]

no big runs yet, started good yesterday then the sun went in. the wind has been very cold here. as scott wheeler said yesterday if you took a frozen pail of water and set it out side it will not thaw out. trees still froze here.good job on 1/2 gallon per tap. dont think i will see that this year. my woods are not tight. open house this weekend. govener douglas comming to sugar house in am so been house cleaning for that.going to stay about an hour. told them i would not be boiling they did not seem to mind. not looking like sap till sunday maybe

[Homestead Maple]

Halfast tapper,

The local ranger station here is who I send my request to each year for the taps. They send me a bill which is for 30 cents a tap. I also get a form for the permit, which I fill out. The permit asks what vehicle I'll be using to collect sap, the year make and model, the color, what my social security is, my place of residence, etc. I send the money for the taps to the USDA in California, and the permit back to the ranger station here and when the local ranger station here gets word from the USDA that I've paid the bill for the taps, the local ranger station here sends me a copy of the permit and I have to keep that in the vehicle at all times I'm collecting sap. The permit is also allows me to park on USFS land while I'm tapping etc. so that I don't have to get a regular USFS user permit. When I first asked about tapping on USFS land, a ranger from Vermont was sent over to check out my site. We met at the site and looking up into the woods he said "so this is where you want to tap"? I said "yes". He says, "what color is your holding tank going to be"?. Just so happens it was white that year. "I said white". "Oh good he says." I said, "would you like to take a walk through the site"? He said, "no". Then he said, "it looks like a good place to tap. I've got a lot of other things to do today. I've got to go. I hope you have a great time making syrup and I'll tell the local rangers it's Ok with me for this site and we'll go from there. See ya".

Any way, I've been tapping this site for ten years and leave my lines up year round, accept for one year they where going to do a study in the area for Indiana bats and they wanted me to leave my lines down on the ground for that summer so that they could wander through the woods here. Then I put the lines back up in the fall and they've been that way since. I couldn't ask for better people to work with.

If you want to PM me with your address, I'll send you copies of my permit and bill and you can see what they are all about.

There are a few other people in the surrounding area that tap on the USFS land also and have for a number of years. The USFS, so I was told, likes to, or may be required to, diversify the use of their lands for a varity of uses.

I would have tapped on the USFS land years sooner if I hadn't been given some wrong info by other people. I was told that I would have to pay the value of the butt log of any tree I tapped because the wood was going to be of no value once it was tapped. I was also told that I would have to do and environmental impact study and on, and on. I happened to be selling syrup to one of the people that worked at the local ranger station, and one day in the post office we got talking about sugaring and I mentioned that I would like to find some more taps but because we had a bobbin mill in the area for so long that most of the rock maple in the area had been cut. He told me I should inquire about their land and I explained what I'd heard about using their land. He said it was no such thing and gave me the name of the person I should contact and that was the beginning to a good relationship.

let me know if I can help you in any way.

[gmcooper]

Homestead,
Glad to hear things have been working with USFS. I talked with a ranger years ago and made very little progress. He said "we have a few sites for sap collecting". There was no option of where it was, what ever location they decided they wanted you. Tap charge was 25 or 30 cents. I do not think he liked tubing as he kept saying buckets. I really thought he was refering to a homeowner type deal where they tapped 10-20 buckets and boiled on the kitchen stove. I knew where there was an area with 1,000's of really nice sugar maples all on USFS land that we thought would be ideal to tap. Public roads right by the trees. That Ranger made it clear that area in general was off limits.

Might have to check in with them again.
Mark

[Homestead Maple]

gmcooper,

My taps are right beside the ski area in Waterville Valley and I started with 300 taps and after a couple years and buying some bigger equipment, I applied for 600 taps. I got a call one night around 7pm (imagine getting a call from them at that time of night) from the District Ranger and he said that my request really threw him back a little and he would have to take some time to think that one over for some time. He said that they don't move very fast down at the office and I might not get my extra taps that year. He told me that if I got a detailed map of the area I was tapping in relation to the ski area that it would speed up the process because he was afraid that I would be interfering with the ski area and he didn't want skiers getting tied up in the lines. I drew up a map using a topo map of the area as a template and sent it in the the ranger station and they approved the permit in plenty of time to tap the extra that year. I add roughly a hundred taps some years and could probably have 1,500 there or so if I want but we'll see. It's a one man operation and I only have so much time. Last year the cost for taps went from 25 cents to 30.
If your interested in a copy of my permits PM me with your address and I'll send you a copy.