vacuum question

[treefinder]

i have a question on my vacuum? when i start the pump and plug of the intake the pumps runs at 26" so when i open the valve and it starts sucking sap i have 15" at the pump. but this pump isn't sucking the sap out of the 5/16 lines. maybe not enough?it does suck it up the sap ladders but all of my 5/16's are full even the ones closest to the pump are still full? am i doing somthing wrong or just need more vacuum! thanks kevin

[ennismaple]

Vacuum should pull the sap through your lateral lines at a slow walking pace. When the lines first thaw out in the morning the laterals will thaw before the mainlines. It could be your mainline isn't thawed yet.

[treefinder]

no main line is is thawed. and if i pull off a 5/16 line and put it to my mouth it will suck right to my lip and i hook it back up i can see the sap in the drops and some are full and the others are about 3" above the tee. but not moving?

[maplehound]

tree finder, the fact that the lines are full and don't seem to be moving jsut means that everything is working right and that you don,t have any air leaks. It may not seem right but it is. If you see it moving at a fast pace look for a leak up stream. If it is moving at a slow steady walking pace you probably have a slow leak up stream. But if you don't notice any motion or just slight movement by the sap and the lines are full you are working right and the run is a good one. Look for larger amounts of sap at the tank.

[ennismaple]

no main line is is thawed. and if i pull off a 5/16 line and put it to my mouth it will suck right to my lip and i hook it back up i can see the sap in the drops and some are full and the others are about 3" above the tee. but not moving?

I've seen tubing get kinked on the edge of a sharp piece of bark which will cause the flow rate to significantly slow down or even stop. Watch the sap closely for a minute or too to confirm if there's any movement. If not, try pulling the end tap to see if vacuum is getting through the line.

[Haynes Forest Products]

I have this nagging question. Its like the question what came first the chicken or the egg? Does sap move air bubbles or do air bubbles move sap???
Im still trying to find out about sap ladders and my understanding is air bubbles in the lines move the sap up the ladder So if this is true air in the lines is good. If sap is pushed out of a tree by gases from within then it only makes sense that there will be gas bubbles in the lines. I saw on YouTube a sap ladder and there was a valve to let in a little air to help it along????

[maplecrest]

ladders are a a pain to get to work but once you figure out how each one works they can be worry free.i have 6 ladders in my systems. each one works differently. two have valves for air adjustment. others i cut a slit in the tube that fits over a nipple on a star bottom side, to let a little air mix to raise the sap to the next level.if good tight system will not need air mix. this year i did not add any air. up lines were solid sap no bubbles. at first i did not think that they were working. but doing vac checks the vac was there and sap was moving.{you are not going to get as high a vac level on the lower side of the ladder. it will be a bit lower.due to vac transfer in ladder is lower.}

[mountainvan]

I used sapladders for the first time this year. The highest is 12 ft and the smallest 6 ft. I found that I got more sap when the ladders were full of sap and you had to look closely to see the sap being pulled up by the vacuum. It took me awhile to find all the little leaks in the lines to make the system tight, but once I did it was worth it.

[Haynes Forest Products]

Can you have a dry line with a booster tank upstream of your sap ladders?

[maplecrest]

that is a question that i have pondered for one of my systems. if you ran a straight vac line to a booster above the ladder for the added vac lost in the ladder. i think it will work. i am washing my tubing under vac this year. goes much faster, no waiting for water. i washed a ladder system that has been a problem in seasons past. this year was not a problem. and washing under vac i did not know what too expect. i could not believe the vac transfer there was there during washing. i need to put a vac gauge at the end of that line. so my thought would be put a vac gauge at the end of the line see what you are getting for vac. then think about a booster. one up line for every ten taps on a ladder. how many taps on that line?

[Haynes Forest Products]

Thanks Jeff
I have alot of time to get things right this coming year. Is it better to put sap ladders on quick connects so you can take them down at the end of the season? Can you make a booster out of 6" ABS and hang it in a tree 4" above the main line. I could make a booster for about 20.00? Now for the million dollar question what would happen if you put a tank out in the woods with no vacuum line to it and it was higher than the main line. Would air bubbles from leaks and sap lines fill it and help maintain vacuum out in the bush Chuck

[maplecrest]

the booster would want to be joined to your lower main line that feeds the ladder. 6 inch is over kill. 11/2 would work hooking the dry line too the wet line i have boosters every 1000 feet. as for the tank. booster tanks are placed in the woods to boost vac levels. i have never used one some one else will have to help with that one.i have a quick connect on my ladder at my drive way works good.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I got lost some where on this 1. if you have a dry line running past your ladders how would vacuum suck it up when it would be easier to just work thru the dry line?

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rich
That is why Im asking the questions. I would assume that any booster would have to be the highest point in the system. 6"X30" tank would be fine? Are you saying you cant have dry lines with booster tanks out past the sap ladders?

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

I am with you HAYNES waiting for the answer???

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

Rich
I think were waiting on the Govornor

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

GOV
what is the answer???

RICH

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[Haynes Forest Products]

Thanks Govornor I just took some Nyquil for a bad cold and I read your post and the problem is it made perfect sense...........so I know Im screwd.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

is there other brand names of bulk tanks that can stand up to vacuum besides ZERO TANKS

RICH

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

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[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

GOV
yes that makes sense, i would want 20" ,well back to finding a releaser

thanks
RICH

[ennismaple]

We've run our Zero tanks at up to 20" with no ill effects.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

ennismaple how big of a tank??

RICH

[Haynes Forest Products]

I can tell you there are Zero tanks and there are Zero Vacuum tanks. I paid 600.00 for a Zero vac tank sight unseen from a big dairy outfit and didnt notice the little lettering on the very top of the end that read NON VACUUM.
I sucked that tank in and it looked like a pop can you bent in half. They gave me my money back. Its unbeliveable what a small vac pump can do.

[ennismaple]

ennismaple how big of a tank??

RICH

One is 800 gallons, 3 are 600 gallons and one is 500 gallons. All are the round Zero vacuum tanks and we've been using a couple of them for 20 years!