new to sugaring, quesions about startng an operation (pics)

[MainelyMaple]

Hello everyone,
First let me introduce my self, my name is scott and i live in maine. i have been tapping a small amount of trees ( about a dozen or so) for a couple years now for my own personal use but have recently been doing alot of research about expanding into a larger operation. there is an abandoned syrup operation right in Auburn where i live and have recently contacted the owner who seems to be interested in working out some kind of lease with me. (some of you may know about these sugar shacks if your from maine but they were in operation before my time, since im only 20) my question is what can i expect/ offer to pay for a lease? his property is 60 acres of primarily sugar maples, with 3 buildings 1 actual sugar shack with evaporator still in it with attached wood shed and sap storage shed, another is a shack with a little kitchen area and bed, and the third is a storage barn. im thinking about starting off with 500 taps mostly tubing with 50 or less buckets. i guess im wondering any other information you guys could offer a newbie looking to get in it. anything from selling/marketing, start up costs (can i get alot of used equipment to start me off?), tubing installation, etc. here are a couple of pics of the place, its just a shame to see this place rot and these trees un tapped. id really lked to do something with this.

sugar shack
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SMorin119/sugarshack004.jpg

inside pic
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SMorin119/sugarshack006.jpg

"other shack" id liked to use for bottling/finishing....maybe retail space
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SMorin119/sugarshack012.jpg

storage barn
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/SMorin119/sugarshack017.jpg

thanks for any info you can provide me i appreciate it

[VT maple maker]

Mainely Maple,

Im not sure about leasing as i have a shack and all my trees on my fathers property. I do know that i am just starting out still. I was small last year with 20 taps and a home made rig. This year i bought a used 2x6 and quite a bit of other equipment and will have about 200 taps. Between all the used buckets, the new pipeline (all gravity,as vacuum is fairly expensive to set up) the evaporator, tanks, taps, and all the little things i needed to get started, i have spent several thousand dollars. All worth it in my eyes as i fell in love with it as soon as i boiled down my first batch. I also had to put quite a bit more into the shack, it was an old barn at my fathers place. The roof was caving in and the building needed a lot of work. Even if you go with all used equipment like i tried to do your looking at a pretty good chunk of change. As far as selling, you will want to make sure there is a good market for the syrup you produce in your area and surrounding areas. I find that people around here would rather buy syrup locally from someone they know. From my experience so far, even though i have put a lot of time and money into it i have no regrets and am very excited about it all. If its something you really want and are willing to work really hard at it can surely work out for you. I say go for it!!! GOOD LUCK!

Kyle

[halfast tapper]

Mainly Maple
I don't know about leasing buildings etc. but the going rate for a sugar lot lease around hear is 30 to 35 cents per tap.
As far as used equipment, it's just like anything else used , some of it is good and some of it stay away from. Don't use used tubing or spouts , it's not worth the time or money, buy new tubing spouts and mainline. The cost is about 4 to 5 dollars per tap to set up a new system, thats without the cost of a tank.
That evaporator looks like it needs new pans. Looks like english tin, hard to tell from pic. Looks like a 5x14 or 6x14. You can find stainless pans that are in descent shape used.

[Hop Kiln Road]

Hi Scott,

A couple of things to think about before entering into a lease.

1. It has to be in writing.
2. If you sign a 10 year lease and the owner sells the property, the new owner has to honor the term of the lease, or try to buy it out.
3. If you sign a 2 year lease and at the end of the two years the owner, or new owner, wants you and your equipment out, you're out.
4. Any improvements you do to the property, for instance replace a roof, belongs to the owner upon the expiration of the lease.
5. Any improvements you do to the fixtures and equipment, for instance put new pans on the owner's arch, you can take with you (the pans, not the arch) when the lease expires, but that should be spelled out in the lease for your proptection.
6. You want to have the right to assign (sell) the lease to a third party should you become unable to sugar at some point during the lease term.
7. If you are seriously considering a 500 tap (ad)venture on this property, you should consult an Attorney before signning anything.

Most importantly, you should think about the value of your labor and costs of fixing up the property as a portion, if not all, of the lease payment.

Good Luck!

Bruce

[NH Maplemaker]

Mainly Maple
Maybe the way to go would be lease the bush,set up tubing and main lines. Then sell sap to someone in your area! That way you are working to build your operation and at the same time get some operating cash as well . As long as syrup prices are up so will sap prices!! That way you will also have time to work on any buildings that need repair! That is how I started, selling sap.First year payed for all my tubing and mains on the first bush,and the next year second half was done and both bushes payed that off with some cash left over ! At 20 years old you have more than enough time to build a nice operation for your self!! Roman was'nt built in a day!! Sit down and draw up a business plan and stick with it !! Good luck! Keep us posted as you go.