Sap Moving Question

[NYMaple]

Good mornin'!

Tons of great information on this site!

I am working up a plan to start collecting sap next year - it's project after project, but the most important question is how to get the sap!

I've got a good sized sugar bush (at least 300 taps in one area) that is quite a bit downhill through a logging path. The 4 wheeler won't move through more than 8-10 inches of snow, and a snowmobile probably wouldn't be a good investment for moving sap... definately can't get a truck down there...

Is a tractor the only way? Pumping would be too far, as well... 1/2 mile downhill!

I'd love to get to this area for sap - so... is a tractor the only way?

Thanks!

Chet

[Fred Henderson]

TUBING!!!!!!!!! is the way to go. If you can get a lease on the trees and land go for the tubing.

[Russ]

I agree with Fred... work smarter, not harder. With tubing, if you take the time to do it right the first time, you will save yourself time and money in the long run. We handle our sap a lot more than I care to, with pumping, hauling, pumping again, etc., along with plowing roads for the tractor and four wheelers. Let the physics of gravity work for you when at all possible... its the cheapest labor you'll find. Augment it with a pump if you have to; 1/2 mile isn't far compared to what others here have set up.

[softmaple]

i think what he is saying is that his sugar house is on top of the hill and his collection is at the bottom. how does he get it back up top again.

[NYMaple]

Thanks for the input guys! Softmaple has the right idea :)

I suppose that a tractor would be the only way to get down in there and haul a collection tank back up...

Pumping would be too far and I can't rely on the snow going out in time to get in there with the 4 wheeler.

Time to get an old tractor!

Thanks again :)

Chet

[Fred Henderson]

Put a pump line in on a wire the same as is done with a sap main line. Set up a gas powered pump right at the tank and pump it back up the hill. Let what is in the pump line drain back to the tank. Beleive me this is the best way to do it. Shop around and get a pump that can handle that kind of head.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Fred is right, find a pump that will handle that kind of head and even build a small building to keep it in to advoid it getting vandalized or stolen. Driving on the logging road will get bad especially after a couple of years and all the mud during syrup season. You will start getting stuck and rutting it out bad. You could walk down there in about 3 minutes and back up the hill in 5 or 6 minutes and if all you have to carry is a little gas from time to time, it would be easier in the long run.

[Fred Henderson]

You will be surprised at how far and high that you can move liquid with very little HP. Sap is just slightly heavier than water so it will relatively the same way. Head is the vertical lift that you will have to rasie the sap. Even if you had to use 2 pumps its ways better than hauling it.

[NYMaple]

Thanks all for the input...

I will look into what it would take to pump it up the hill - it seems that this might be the least expensive way out! I'm more than happy going down on foot to tend to things, but hauling anything more than I could carry would be a problem.

I'm glad to hear that pumping might be a good option!

Thanks again!

Chet

[Fred Henderson]

Pumping is the only option in my book.

[HHM-07]

If you want to put in 2 lines you can have your pump in the sugarhouse and pump down and back up , thats the way i would do it . Do you have power in the sugarhouse if you do that would be even better an electric pump

[danno]

Pump it up! 4 wheel drive tractor capable of trailering sap up hill is quite an investment and time consuming. 300 taps = 450 gallons of sap in a good run = a whole lot of weight to be trailering of slick, muddy trail!

[Pete33Vt]

In my sugarhouse thats exactly what I do. All vaccum lines run downhill away from the sugarhouse, the releaser and pump are set up in a shack at the bottom. When the releaser is full (electric releaser) it kicks on the pump and up the hill it goes right to the storage tank. Its around 2500-3000 ft from the sugarhosue and have had no problems this year. Had to rebuild the pump for this season. But even without electricity you can use a gas power pump to do the same thing.

[Jeff E]

HHM-07 stated something about a 2 line system to 'pump it down and then back up'. Sorry, I don't get it.
I will be installing vacuum and assumed there options for moving sap back up hill were:
1. Releaser and pump, either connected to the releaser or from a tank the releaser dumps into
2. Sap ladders or other such sap lifter.

What is the 2 line pump system like and does it apply to a vacuum system?

[peacemaker]

pump it think of it this way its the best run u have ever had the tanks are over flowing and it looks good for the next 4 days ... you go down and are coming up slip bang truck is stuck and not coming out till things dry up now what your off to buy a pump thats what ... and line and time to put it up when u should be in the sugar house boiling and you watch the sap run into the ground ...

even if you have pump it up half way to a tank and then carry your pump up and do it again its well worth it
i know i did it tractor stuck walking buckets back up the hill cause i couldnt afford a pump...

[maple flats]

Just set a deep well type pump up, gas or elec. These work by pumping a small amount down to force a larger amount up. After you pump all you can up you would need to bleed the system down to protect from freezing. This idea would only be needed if too much head would be needed to pump all from the bottom. Look at a topo map and figure what the actual lift needed is. After that let us know and you will get several ideas to sort out for which would be best for you. Someone here will be able to calculate line friction etc.

[Mark-NH]

You have one other option if you do not go with the pump. Buy a track kit for your 4 wheeler. We use them to groom snowmobile trails here in NH. Because of the gear reduction in the track kits, they should have plenty of power to pull a tank.

I agree that a pump is probably the best alternative but the tracks would benefit more than just collection. You could use your 4 wheeler to set up, maintain and check you lines.

[peacemaker]

u say its a half mile down hill any idea what the elevation change is ... if it isnt top much can u pump staraight up then pitch it all the to the sugar house