Propane burners / pre heater

[Jim Powell]

TDVT (aka Ted) asked me about my burners configuration. I tried to email him these photos here, but couldn't figure out how to attach them, so I am posting them here. NO PEEKING!!! Just kidding, but if you do see anything stupid... be gentle... ;)

Hope this works!

[Dennis H.]

Cool propane setup, How much gas do you use? I the simplicity of the rig.

[Jim Powell]

I probably used almost 150 gallons. Now that it is $2.29 a gallon, I'm thinking i could have have just bought a lot of split dry firewood. I went with propane because I wanted the unit to be more 'portable'. The frame just spends the summer in the back of the shed. I don't have a shack, this is my utility shed. One thing i did notice, is the FULL 5 gallon gas cans! They get stored way away from the front of the shed and open flames once I get going! Opps.

[MaplePancakeMan]

whats the evaporation rate with the propane?

[forester1]

I just paid $3.40. I think I got ripped off.

[Maple Hill Sugarhouse]

Sometimes it pays to shop around for the volitile fuel prices now a days. My wife doesn't like the pre-buy idea on fuel oil(bull headed/especially when i got hundreds of cords of wood i could burn=But she won't tend to the fire hardly either///lol=now she tells me we gotta do something different=No crap/thats what i've been telling you for years)=So you pay the daily price. Well we got rammed as i called around for prices and a company we usually buy #2 from was $3.519/so she called them back up and told them to fill the tank -well we got the delivery a week later and the slip was $3.719. She called them up to see what is up. Got the run around=So i told her to call them up today and tell them your all done doing business with the SOB/we ordered that day and it's not our fault they didn't deliver then.

I'm almost ready to call them up and tell them come pump the 175 gals. back out of the tank.

[Jim Powell]

Well last year was the first year with the setup, and it seemed like i was scrambling every day i boiled, and changing things etc. The mfg, says it should do the 8 gallons / hr, but I think I did go faster than that, maybe around 10. At the end of last season I added another valve to the pre-heater plumbing, so that once it gets up to 180 - 200° , I can trickle it in to the pan. Now i have to play with trickling in from the sap tank!

Regarding propane, I agree it is really a 'buyer beware' market. A few years ago, the local supplier I was with on a "pre pay" plan was bought by a national chain, Ferrellgas. The next contract was at everyday market rates, and some of my neighbors just signed it and sent it back. I called around, and could easily find it cheaper, so I called the people who were still the same ole folks, just under "new managment" and they quietly acknowledged it was a "****ty deal" ( my words) and referred me to an regional office in Kansas City. I got them to match another local providers prebuy rate, but the next year I switched. NOW their website promotes they will meet or beat any price, of course after lots of old customers have already bailed.

[TDVT]

Got my acct activated! I didn't find this forum until last week, so I've been taking it all in at once. Lots of good information!

I had asked Jim about his rig & he was kind enough to send me the photos he posted above. I was interested to see it since we also use propane for our little hobby-size rig. Thanks, Jim

We usually make 5 or 6 gallons (none last year) & I welded up an "arch" to hold the steam table pans we had & we bought some gas burners, 1 for each pan. Our burners are smaller than Jim's (185,00 btu vs. 220,00 btu)
We ran it as a batch unit starting with 4 full pans combining down to 1. I wish I could remember how long it took per batch but I think we were coming out around 5gal/hr. evaporation.

One of the reasons I had PM'ed Jim was to ask about his burner configuration. Our frame is less open than his but we have real wind issues, plus you lose a tremendous amount of heat with this type of setup. I'm thinking someone must use gas but in a more traditional front-burner (like oil?) arrangement.

We just paid right around $3 a gal for propane here in VT.

I've got at least until the beginning of the week to get our's up a running. About 8 in. of snow last night(2-3' already on the ground), high winds & 10F outside right now.


My dad boiling with our new setup (3 years ago)
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f155/tdgrvt/DA_sugaring2small.jpg

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Very nice looking setup and a lot of work and thought into it!

[TDVT]

Very nice looking setup and a lot of work and thought into it!

Thanks, WVM. It is certainly a step up from the cinder-block setup we had used in the past. But it's still a bit of a gas pig. It kills me thinking about all the heat escaping, especially now at $3/gal!

We only sugar for ourselves but would like to make the jump to an actual evaporator next year & probably switch to wood at the same time.

[Mike]

Looks good.....How many gals of propane to a gal of syrup?? If you get a wood one next year you could use the propane one for a finishing unit.....

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

As nice as it is, you should be able to sell it for a good price for someone looking for that type of setup towards an evaporator.

[Jim Powell]

I just had my tank refilled today. The first burn I did about 10 days ago really sucked up the propane, and while the rig was running the propane gave off a very acrid oder, which would sting the eyes etc. This is the second year I've used it, so I don't think it is the rig. One burner did burn very sooty.
The second time I used it, the smell wasn't so bad, but came back a little stronger the third time. The fourth and fifth times there was no smell.

Has anyone ever heard of "bad propane"?

Of course the dealer is just scratching his head.

Because of all these issues I contacted Bayou Classic and told them all about the setup etc, and the tech guy there pointed out the burners are designed to cook a pot, not to be completely covered up under a 2 X 4 pan. He suggested lowering the burners one inch, which was fairly easy to do. I also played around with the shudder, and ended up drilling an row of holes on the other side. Two days ago after all my modifications I opened everything up, had the burners roaring, and boiled almost 10 gal/hr. BUT it really went through the propane. For the last two days, I've cut things way back, and and going at 7.5 gallons / hr. It seems I use a LOT less propane, and am still finished up by mid afternoon.

[TDVT]

Jim, got your email about "bad gas", I haven't had that problem, not with propane anyway. Thanks for the heads-up.

We tapped a week or two ago but nothing has really been flowing until late last week so we finally fired up the new, revised propane arch last night for a test run. We ended up with about three pints of what was probably Fancy, very light.

There were a few glitches with the revised set-up that I corrected this AM & that, combined with our sap finally running, I think we should end up with about another gallon tonight.

I ended up lining sides of the rig with firebrick & I lengthened the burners so they draw air at the shutter from outside the frame. We only put three burners back in & the fourth pan (closest to the exhaust) is our pre-heater. It get 3-4 gals of sap up to about 190d, then we add it the the other pans.

I did the math on the evaporation & I think we are getting around 7+ gals/hr. I'm not sure how much propane that's going to translate into as we're running it on a large 100gal tank. Try to figure that down the road.

As an added note, I'm sitting out in the mud with our rig, in front of the garage, finishing up our last batch & typing this on a wireless laptop linked to the house. Pretty crazy world.

[Sugarmaker]

Jim and TDVT,
Bad PROPANE?. I have a old propane grill converted to a syrup caner. I cut the top off the grill, added some angle iron to hold the 10 gallon pan and fired it up. The smell burned my eyes and was awful. I raised the pan about 3/4 inch above the angle iron supports to allow more air gap and it has been fine ever since. I think that if these are too tight the fuel is not completely burning and causing the concern.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Chris

[TDVT]

I raised the pan about 3/4 inch above the angle iron supports to allow more air gap and it has been fine ever since. I think that if these are too tight the fuel is not completely burning and causing the concern.
Hope this helps.

Regards,
Chris

I haven't had a problem with any smell with this rig. I had a similar experience with an outdoor deep fryer I made a while back. I didn't leave enough vent area for the hot exhaust & it wouldn't burn properly so I raised the pan & it worked fine.

I'll add some pics of our revised propane evap to the other thread (http://www.mapletrader.com/community/showthread.php?t=4310) I've got going later this AM.