State of ohio outlawing use of wood heat

[tom jr.]

Yes it's true the state of ohio is trying to pass a bill to outlaw the use of wood burnig stoves for residential heat. I'm not to shure who's bright Idea this is but I think ohio epa has alot to do with it. I know this is a little off topic but i'm trying to get the word out there so we all don't have to suffer. as we all know once one state passes it the next will follow, I personally heat with wood and my evaporator is wood fired. I strongly encourage any ohio citiens to write the state legislator and ohio epa and give them a piece of your mind on the matter. some one needs a serious wake up call before we all pay the heavy price. this information was relayed to me through centeral boiler the company i bought my outdoor wood furnace from. I just wanted to hear some feedback from some fellow sugar makers. Tom

[ennismaple]

Here's an argument for you: Wood heat is carbon neutral. The carbon that is released when you burn wood would have been released into the atmosphere when the tree died and decomposed so it nets to zero. Heating with oil releases carbon into the atmosphere that should have stayed in the ground for a few million more years!

I hope what you heard is just crazy talk...

[Brent]

Like Ennismaple I think wood heat is AT LEAST carbon neutral.

My theory goes like this.

Millions or billions of years ago this planet was to hot for higher life. Some stuff lived that ended up being buried over time as oil, gas or coal. The more that got buried the more Carbon levels when down and we had the reverse of global warming. Now we're re-introducing all that buried carbon to the atmosphere.

I heat my home 95% with wood. Yes it makes CO2 but I'm using the carbon that is already above ground and in the cycle. I take as little as possible from the petroleum industry.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

Put the pressure on your gov. reps. tell them next election you will remember how they voted on this

RICH

[Big_Eddy]

Are you sure it is all wood heat? I've heard that some states were looking at outdoor furnaces specifically due to the less complete combustion that normally results.

All wood heat would affect a lot of people!

[Russ]

Ironically, the Secretary of the Wisconsin Dept. of Agriculture has gone on record this week encouraging schools that have to replace their boilers to consider going with biomass (wood, corn, etc.) fired boilers in order to utilize the abundant renewable energy sources available in the state.

http://www.biomasscenter.org/pdfs/WI_School_Wood_Energy.pdf

[TapME]

Maybe they should harness all the hot air at the capital and pipe it through the state and solve the high cost fuel. Just my 2 cents.

[tapper]

That is in the same exact category as someone telling me I can't have a gun anymore. Jeeeezzz what is wrong with these idiots? The reason the economy is bad right now is because of high fuel costs and they go to great lengths to not say that. Take away peoples ability to heat with wood and force them into using high cost oil,gas or propane will only hurt the economy more.

[tom jr.]

I'm not shure if this applies only to outdoor furnaces or all wood burning appliances. I have the artical in my truck, its a little to cold to go out and get it right now.ill get it tomorrow let you all know. It's just the fact that if it starts with the outdoor furnace whats next???? wood fired evaporators??? camp fires ect. ect.?? I dont know if anyone has looked at the price of fuel lately but it's up to 3.77 gal. outragous! this strongly effects me personaly because I own 2 dump trucks and my fuel bill is averaging 8-10000 per mo. thats sevearly cutting in to my maple budget, NOT HAPPY AT ALL!

[gmcooper]

Here in Maine this winter they passed a law concerning outdoor wood boilers. A few people throughout the state thought they were a terrible invasion on their lives and view on how everything should be. Some towns have banned them completely. Now this is the most forested state in the nation! State finally came up with standards for wood boiler emmissions. They also have an incredible set of location and stack height requirements. Basically if you have a neighbor that doesn't like you or wood boilers you won't have an outdoor wood boiler.

[VT maple maker]

Maybe i should never have bought all this maple equipment. I think it would have been wiser to invest in an oil rig. Process it and rape and pillage the world like the rest of the oil tycoons!!! Its funny how people in organizations like the EPA make so much money to make the rest of us miserable, what do they care. They can afford the oil.

[maplehound]

I too have heard some about this. It is my understanding though that it only pertains to those outdoor wood boilers and then only for those using them in residential and inner city area's. It seems that with the short smoke stakes that alot of neighbors are getting smoked out. I have also heard that it may only be for the late fall through early spring months. So they won't be able to use them for heating there pools and hot water, during the summer months.

[Fred Henderson]

My nearest neighbor is a good 1/2 mile and a lot of trees between us so I guess I will not worry too much. But I will certainly support any effort that allows poeple to keep using the outdoor boiler.

[twigbender]

What a country! Isn't it wonderful that we have all these unelected (hired) officials from the EPA and other bastions of bureaucracy that hold the rest of us in such high esteem that they spend all of their time just protecting us from ourselves? Dang good thing that somebodies watching out for us -- we could never take care of it on our own!
(tongue deeply embedded in cheek, here)

[VtSugarhouse]

Just a tid bit of information. The EPA has gotten thru in many states, ( Maine, Conn. and others) an anti-idling law. If your truck has a GVWR of 14,000 lbs or more ( diesel) and produced after Jan 1, 2008 it will shut off after idleing for 10 min. This includes all manufacturers.
Not all states have this law yet but its coming.

[Fred Henderson]

Heck I got an 8500 GVWR diesel pickup and its illegal for me to let it idle anywhere for over 5 minutes.

[peacemaker]

now i know i am gonna get hammered over this but i also in favor of heating with wood and i agree with outside furnaces as a firemen but i also have ssen the black smoke pouring out of them and the notice the pile of tires or the melamine cabinets they ripped out or even bags of garbage and plastic ... see not all the world is as smart as all of us on here where we care about ou trees and land and the air our grand children are gonna be able to breathe ... as far as the trucks go i do agree all of this world doesnt think twice about the ripples the make evertime the purchase something ... i hiked the Appalacian trail from GA to ME i pre bought all my food from places like aldis and such then i had three shopping carts full then i unwrapped and re package it all in ziplock bags when i got done i had a small pile of food and bags of box board and plastic bags and foil wraps some boxs u would open up there would be 4 different packages in side and the card board box was huge compared to what was in .. its silly what we waste ... i understand the truck drivers reason for idiling but its about time the truck makers come up with better ways to do it and same with all our on the trail as u hiked along in the quit woods smelling only the deep woods smell then first u would here the hummm the u could smell the cars and trucks or anyone in pa knows the damage from the smelt mines ..the epa gets carried away i agree but if the didnt what would this earth look like think back to when u could develop film in lake ontario from kodak or all u up in maine when they could clear cut all the wanted ... or in pa when the could strip mine ... or ny city wanting to send the waste up this way ... .. like i said i dont think most of us on heredont need policing but i know many people i would love to police like my niebor who has one of those outside chimaneya things which he and his family sit around and he burns there garbage in as they all sit around ..there is some stupid people in this world who dont care one bit about tom... oh and u canandian fellas know this your govt got this one write ... hemp versus wood pulp for paper ... ok enough sorry for the rant and know i will take my bargage of yelling for i feel strongly about this and so should all of us because global warming will hurt sugaring ...

[Fred Henderson]

I know that what you say is right and I will not argue. But take a good serious look at what our president has allowerd to happen the the coal burning plants in the midwest. We the average citizen can no longer us any type of Freon as a refrigant but the armed force can. When a Navy fleet goes to sea the got truck loads of the stuff. If it wasn't leaking they would not need so much.

[peacemaker]

dont get me started on the president and what our govt will do i agree its a joke ...

[Dennis H.]

Here in PA a small town passed a zoning law that stated distances and stack height for outside wood boilers. Basically it made it impossible to install an outside wood boiler in town because of setbacks and distances to nearby buildings. They even made already installed boilers comply to this new law also, no grandfathered stuff here! It is kind of funny because in towns how many people have their windows open ANY time of the year.

[maple flats]

I drive school bus and we are not allowed to idle for more than 3 minutes off school grounds and 30 seconds on school grounds. This means if we have more than 2 or 3 students to drop we must shut down, maKE THE DROP AND then re start the engine to drive away. This is in NYS. This is extra stramge because the anouncement was made that the newest busses are the cleanest ever and that as of 09 they will theoretically be safe to breathe the exhaust fumes. (I do not plan to test this)

[MR Electrician]

well as you know i work in the oilfields of alberta we have trucks and equipment that were started in sept and are still running now idling 24-7.

im chemicaly sensitive so the last 20 days i have had the taste of sulpher in my mouth .the fuel wasted is incredible.

as for heating with wood we burn 18 bush cords a yr in our wood oil furnace
i havent even hooked up the oil to it yet and the furnace is 3 yrs old.
i too have heard the rumbalings about banning outdoor boilers,this because there are guys burning garbage in them.the simple fix is have the epa licence the manufacturers hold them to higher standards for exhaust gasses.
its possible to make a wood funace and have near 0 emisions.this wil solve the problem for most of us .

now allso we need to bear in mind that the legislaters all think were a bunch of hillbillys for using wood for heat ,theyre used to adjusting the thermostat and the heat comes on ,no effort involved on theyre part.

so thats my 2 cents

[Fred Henderson]

I drive school bus and we are not allowed to idle for more than 3 minutes off school grounds and 30 seconds on school grounds. This means if we have more than 2 or 3 students to drop we must shut down, maKE THE DROP AND then re start the engine to drive away. This is in NYS. This is extra stramge because the anouncement was made that the newest busses are the cleanest ever and that as of 09 they will theoretically be safe to breathe the exhaust fumes. (I do not plan to test this)






If any diesel idles over 4 minutes it is money out of your pocket.

[Fred Henderson]

dont get me started on the president and what our govt will do i agree its a joke ...

I didn't get you started on anything.LOL You are free to pass this thread by .

[tom jr.]

Ok hears the letter sent to me by centeral boiler co. As it reads: Dear centeral boiler owners, The U.S. is in the middle of the most expensive home heating season on record and oil has surpassed 100$ a barrel. Agencies are seeking emergency government funds to assist americans with home heating cost. Our government is telling people to reduce fossil fuel use, reduce greenhouse gas emmisions, and use renewable fuels. However, the ohio EPA DAPC ( division of air pollution controll) is attempting to pass an unreasonable regulation that will dramatically have an effect on people's right to use their existing outdoor wood furnace: The proposed rule, if enacted, will eliminate existing outdoor wood furnaces in use today in the state of ohio by 2015. In certain areas, wether in a " restricted area" or an "unrestricted area" (population density) some will be eliminated much sooner. The DAPC should adopt the federal EPA OWHH (outdoor wood fired hydronic heater) program which does not restrict or eliminate existing furnaces. The EPA OWHH program can be used to regulate emmisions of future furnaces in the state of ohio which would be reasonable. There are more than 44 million non certified wood heating appliances in the U.S. and it is unreasonable to force current owners to give up their outdoor wood heating appliance. As you already know, your outdoor wood furnace provides you with a safe, clean, efficient and cost effective way to heat your home. Outdoor wood furnaces use a renewable source of fuel that IS CARBON NEUTERAL and reduces your dependence on fossil fuels. Thats a lot of typing for a hilljack like me!!! It also says deadline to submit comments to ohio EPA DAPC IS MARCH 7, 2008 submit comments to: http://www.epa.state.oh.us/dapc/regs/regs.html#3745-115. http://www.house.state.oh/jsps/SearchbyName.jsp. http://www.senate.state.oh.us/senators/. also email Carolina.Prado@epa.state.oh.us

[tessiersfarm]

I will just move my boiloer into my garage. Put up a masonry chimney and poof no more outdoor wood boiler. If they think I am going to stop burning wood of some sort they better reserve a jail cell for me. No matter how much they fine me or take away, wood is pretty easy to get, and I can make it burn.

[peacemaker]

i agree or sell it build a masonary stove inside and burn alot less wood

[Toblerone]

Looks like it's not just Ohio:

"At least seven states and dozens of towns in the Northeast and Midwest have passed or are considering measures to ban, restrict or monitor the wood-burning devices known as OWBs."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-01-15-Boilers_N.htm

[Russell Lampron]

I like tessiersfarms idea. I will build a shed over my furnace and it won't be outdoors anymore. If the politicians can find loopholes so can we.

Russ

[Fred Henderson]

What a great idea Russ, I will follow your lead.

[tapper]

Cover the owbs anyway you want trouble is its the emmissions they are trying to stop and its kind of hard to hide them. On certain days I've seen smoke a half mile away from them and its hanging in the air leading directly to the source. Our neighbors must be griping about them or else there wouldnt be legislation aganist them.
Gasification burners have been available in this country for 20+ years and I'm suprised more people dont know about them. I didnt know a thing about them till I was in the market for a boiler last fall. I bought one and glad I did. I wasnt so concerened about the emmissions as I was looking for efficinecy. These boilers burn almost all the smoke and there is a ton of energy there with the bonus of putting very little to no smoke out the stack.

[Hop Kiln Road]

I agree with Jon, its the emissions. You guys see the wood pellet stoves? They're allowed to direct vent out the side of a building like a gas unit because their combustion and heat utilization is so complete.

Bruce

[MR Electrician]

i agree with the rest its the smoke
now i run a newac 170 furnace biggest one they make.
if i had to do it again i would go with the gasification furnace and install the pipes into the house.

now the newmac isnt too bad for smoke it burns pretty hot we usually just get the nice smell of wood burning every now and then and i would rather smell that then diesel and sulfer any day.

now what you burn has a lot to do with the smoke .
we used to burn poplar easy to cut and i have a lot of it to clear.
last yr we switched to birch as we cleared out a patch of them for the main line to run through
big difference in heat and smoke and ash.
a lot less ash.
now this has been a colder winter than most but were still only up to 17 bush cords so far this yr and the winter aint over yet.

[NH Maplemaker]

With the price of oil hitting 103.00 a barrel over night !!! I think it is irresponsible for any government official to think that a man is not going do what it takes to find a cheaper source fuel to keep his family warm! God knows there not going to!! It's not just the President, He is elected by the whole county!! It's the local official who are elected by us to represent us and when they get to Washington they represent them selfs!! We hear talk about Hydrogen Fuel!! But our elected officials say it will take to long to develop it and build a network to supply it!! Well !!!! We have only known about this oil problem since the med to late sixties !!! Helloooooooo!!!!!!!! This is the greatest country in the world,don't give me that sh-t we can do it! Politicians are bound and determined to help the oil industry bleed every last cent out of our pockets !! But they can't under stand why the economy is in the toilet! Sorry guys , did'nt mean to get carried away!! But this p------ me off big time!!

Jim L.
____________

[maplecrest]

lets see 2 us dollars to one english pound , 1.50 us to one euro. ect tell me where are we in the word market place?

[tom jr.]

waiting for our shipment of rice to come in!!!!! yeah thats us within the next year,(reffering to the commercials on tv about third world countries).

[peacemaker]

may i ask whats a bush cord ?

[TapME]

We as people in the US are being micromanaged by the lawyer, judges, and politicians. We don't know what is best for us or our family, and they will make sure that they tell us. These are the people we elect and send into office, who at the higher level don't have to worry about the way they live(algore). When common people are elected and special interest told to fly common sense rules will be the menu for the day.
Thanks for letting me go on your vote does count. Just my 2cents

[tom jr.]

peacemaker: I think a bush cord is 4x4x8 stack of wood unsplit. I could be wrong though!

[peacemaker]

ok i never heard that term before

[802maple]

Seems to me that the outside boilers could be made to be smoke free, I know that my instens-0-fire and the Hurricane arch's don't smoke because of the secondary burn system's. It does seem like a secondary system could be added to these units and still be efficient.

[tapper]

Greenwood makes a boiler that can be used as an outside wood boiler
http://www.greenwoodfurnace.com/

I think they recommend it be in a shed but if I was stuck on the idea of an owb the shed wouldnt be a big deal.
For that matter most of the other makes of gasification boilers could be operated from a shed also.
Mine is set up in attached garage. 11:00 pm or 5:00 am im out there tshirt and sometimes no shoes stoking the fire.

[tom jr.]

my central boiler doesn't smoke any worse than a wood stove in a house, I think it's because it is natural aspirated. I do know that my neighbor has a hardee stainless steel model and it smokes like an old steam train when it starts up, this is because it has a blower on the damper Ive noticed this alot between brands and from talking to different people the natural aspirated models dont burn near as much wood,also beeing outside your wood pile is usually wet thus when you fire your furnace their is going to be a lot of steam in the exaust. I have expirienced this my self but I built a lean to over my furnace and wood pile.

[Toblerone]

I don't know if a shed or garage will help. Look at 4b in the definitions:

(14) "Outdoor wood-fired boiler" or "outdoor wood-fired hydronic heaters" or
"outdoor wood heaters" or "outdoor furnaces" means a fuel burning device:
(a) Designed to burn wood or other approved solid fuels;
(b) Specified by the manufacturer for outdoor installation or installation in structures not normally occupied by humans; and
(c) Designated to heat building space and/or water via the distribution, typically through pipes, of a fluid heated in the device, typically water or a
water/antifreeze mixture.

Of course, if you burn it clean, the EPA will probably never find out.

I am a city dweller, and my next door neighbor burns his fireplace every or every-other day in the winter. Most of the time I like the smell of wood burning outside. But sometimes, when the wind blows just right (he's down the hill from me), the smell actually makes its way into our drafty 1935 home. I always think something is burning in the house until I realize it's my neighbor. I don't think we should ban fireplaces, but everyday seems excessive in the city.

[tessiersfarm]

Man has been burning wood for thousands of years, I don't see it stopping anytime soon. I always said sooner or later I would get arrested. I guess heating my home is as good a reason as another.

[Fred Henderson]

When the Federal forest service decides to let a forest fire burn its self out maybe we a citizens should arrest and jail them for burnning wood.

[sawyer40]

Well if they arrest you and put you in jail you will have a nice warm cell and wont have to cut and split any wood to keep it warm