evaporation rate

[HHM-07]

Anyone have any expertise in the rate of evaporation between a 2x4 crossflo flat pan and a 2x2 flue pan and 2x2 flat front pan combo. I'm all ears on this one Thanks

[SapSuckers]

I do not have an answer for you, but i do know that your evaporation rate is very dependant on several factors, not just pan size.

that being said, if anyone could share a method for determing evaporation i also would be all ears. My homemade unit is going to be running full tilt this year and would like to be able to estimate my evaporation rate.

[maple flats]

For a flat pan the rate should be about 1 gal/sq ft/hr., if the fire is real hot. For a flue pan there are too many variables to tell with my limited knowledge. However it would exceed that by maybe 2 or 3 times if designed right, maybe even more. These are just a rough guestimate. Why not put some water in and try it? Keep the level fairly shallow, maybe about 1" deep and track. Sap will be very near the same as water rate. The rate has to do with the heat exchange surface area and to be at its highest the heat must be forced up very close to the pans. Good luck.

[325abn]

I have 5 gal marks on my feed tank I just keep track of what goes into the pan and do the math.

I have a 2X4 Small brothers lightning with about a 30" raised flue rear section and a 18" two section front syrup section.

Last year was my first season with this rig and after a bunch of tweeking and at the end of the season I was able to get about 28 - 30 gal/hr using a 2 gal/hr oil nozzel. I also have a full hood.

Here is a shot of my rig.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y26/reagantrooper/Evaporator/testboil005.jpg

[Brent]

Before I ordered the rig that might show up here tomorrow ( Christmas in February) I did some " catalog " research and the indications are that the boil rate it pretty much directly proportional to the surface area in the fire.

For example, the Leader Half Pint is just over 5 square feet and Leader rate it at 5 GPH. With a lot of persuasion ( blower) you can (and I did ) do better. When I got answers from manufactures about the dimensions of their flues and calculated the square footage vs the claimed boil rate, the rate stated by Maple Flats, above, of 1 gallon per square foot still held up pretty good.

I'm sure there are some variables but it looks close enough for me.

[Sugarmaker]

Brent,
Hope all the shiny stuff is in good shape and you get it set up soon.

Regards,
Chris

[peacemaker]

brent did u get your baby in ?

[Brent]

we're now officially 1 day late.
no word if it's even on the road yet.

[cncaboose]

Don't hold your breath on Patrick showing up when he promised. Fred Henderson and I had at least 6 delivery dates over several months in '06 before he actually came with the evaporators.

[tom jr.]

Does anyone have the new leader max flue pan yet?? I just wonder how great they really are. The Idea seems pretty good raised and drop flue all in one, I wonder how the arch is desined to handle the draft? Just curious.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

themapleking has one and Joe is pretty happy with it so far. He went from 100 gph on a 3x8 to 140 and he is still getting used to it and expects to maybe do a little better. From what I understand, it is controlled the same as a raise flue with a raised flue float system, so you get the best of both worlds.

[TapME]

Just a question, what does a max pan look like?

[sweetwoodmaple]

It looks like a raised and drop flue together. I think the total flue length is 11-1/2"?

[maple flats]

And the arch is built like a drop flue. Seems like a good idea, but I think I will go with an RO and not invest in a max until I either need to replace my flue pan for some reason or I can't keep up with what I have and an RO too.

[TapME]

Thanks for the info.

[Brent]

I talked with a Leader rep about the Maxi flue before I ordered my evaporator.

The increase in area exposed to the flames is huge. I was left wondering if the heat could be made to flow over the surface well enough. Sooner or later you have to end up with too much surface for the heat available. This would be especially true for wood fired units. With oil fired units, I think you could relatively easily increase the oil nozzle or the whole burner unit. It's still a pretty new development and there may be aspects to them that are not obvious yet. I decided to let someone else be part of the experiment.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

i am with you BRENT i dont think you would be able to push enough heat thru it with wood to cover all the stainless. to get the full benefit

RICH

[brookledge]

Brent
I'm not disagreeing with you but I know that Leader had some out in the field doing R&D with them before they made them available for sale. And I would think that they would have looked at whether or not the arch size could support a full boil all the way through.
Usually you can increase your boiling capacity by going with a longer arch, while not increasing your wood consumption
Keith

[maple flats]

Last May at Bascoms open house I saw a max being demo'd with plain water and it was impressive on the boil rate. I do not remember for sure but I think it was on oil. As for wood, i think there is plenty of heat on a properly fired rig to get full boil with the max.

[gmcooper]

To get the proper amount of heat with wood for the Max pans you need to have really good wood. Dry and split small to get really intense heat and also fire very consistantly. Actuall no different than we all should be doing with wood but maybe things don't always go as planned.

[Dave Y]

The Max pan is for real.I know a sugarmaker that is getting 300gph of of a 3x12 with a steamaway. His is one of the ones that leader had in the field for 2 years before they stated selling them.

[tom jr.]

How tight do you have to be in with leader to demo/field test new toys?? I want to play with some new stuff that isnt on the market yet!!!!! to bad i'm to far away.

[Brent]

Before I booked my evaporator order, one of the top guys from Leader was up here at Uncle Richards and made a presentation at the Ontario Maple Syrup Producers Assoc meeting.

When I spoke with him about a maxi flue on a 2 x 6 wood fired, I detected a little bit of surprise in his voice. But he did quote me. Uncle Richard ( Dick Obrien) is converting his big oil fired rig to a maxi flue for this season. I didn't measure, but I think it is about 4 x 16 or so.

On a small wood rig, like Cooper says, you will have to have all your ducks in a row to get the benefit from it. Good arch design, very dry, small split wood and a good blower/ stack size combo. I would think with all the extra air (flame plasma) that has to go through a maxi flue, you might even need to go up a stack size.

[Bucket Head]

Just out of curiosity, I asked a Leader distributer about the Max pan's.

They said that pan require's a fully insulated, air tight, and forced draft arch. They said most folk's arch's would'nt be able to provide the kind of heat needed to make the pan work at it's full potential.

To make a long story short, and simplify what was said, they pretty much meant that you would have to "shovel the coal's to her" like a locomotive trying to make it over the Rockies.

That type pan need's so much heat that anything less would not get a boil throughout the pan. The sap would be just simmering toward's the rear of it.

My two cent's, or I should say, the local distributer's two cent's.

Steve