parts and definitions?

[Mac_Muz]

I am new to these terms being a barrel stove guy and just having a few taps.

I don't know most terms, very common you everyone else, so could some of you define things like Dropped Flu, Raised Flu, and other terms related to parts and pieces?

Say what they do and what they look like maybe, and why one works better than the other depending on anything.

I didn't understand making maple syrup had it's own language.

[jemsklein]

this is a dropped flue pan it has flues that go into the fire box there for increasing the sqft of your pan making it boil 3-6 times faster also 3-6 times more money

[jemsklein]

raised flue is the same thing but instead of the flues dropping done in the fire box they go up in to the pan so the hot gases go up in side of the pan

[Mac_Muz]

Does sap or hot air circulate in the tubing? If sap how do you get it out?

If smoke and hot air how do you keep the tubing from burning out?

[VT maple maker]

Its not tubing. The "flues" are simply a piece of stainless bent for the accordian effect so to speak, they are placed in the pan and welded or soldered in. The reason for them is to give you that many more times the surface area vs just a flat bottom pan that only utilizes the bottom of the pans surface area. I dont think i have ever heard of stainless steel burning out. especially not with sap or liquid in the pan. Hot gases are passed through the flues from front to back and then up the smoke stack. The flues are open though. You can look right up into them. or down along them in the case of a drop flue.

[jemsklein]

there is no tubbing in a drop flue or raised

[Fred Henderson]

The colder incoming sap pushes the hotter sap out, and on into the syrup pan. The syrup pan has a flat botton and sits near the front of the fire box/arch. This being the hottest part of the fire box.

[Mac_Muz]

A dead dry part in flames would burn out sooner or later. I can't say when, but even exhaust pipe as the head pipe will burn out in time. The scavange effect tends to cool the pipe. in effect.

So long as there is a covering of fluids in a pan the pan is protected.

All I can see is in the picture, and so i can't tell if sap can run in what looks like tubing to my eye.

If the parts I see were thinner I might have called them fins.

Why is there this difference? I would guess one system might work better than the other and make one or the other a moot point.

Does one have any advantage over the other, or are they more or less equal. How do you decide which style is for you?

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Fred I had wondered about that.. So then the cold sap is denser and pushes the hot sap out like weather moves air huh? The fire being hottest draws sap, just like solder runs to heat. This is most interesting. Thank you.

[jemsklein]

A dead dry part in flames would burn out sooner or later. I can't say when, but even exhaust pipe as the head pipe will burn out in time. The scavange effect tends to cool the pipe. in effect.

So long as there is a covering of fluids in a pan the pan is protected.

All I can see is in the picture, and so i can't tell if sap can run in what looks like tubing to my eye.

If the parts I see were thinner I might have called them fins.

Why is there this difference? I would guess one system might work better than the other and make one or the other a moot point.

Does one have any advantage over the other, or are they more or less equal. How do you decide which style is for you?

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Fred I had wondered about that.. So then the cold sap is denser and pushes the hot sap out like weather moves air huh? The fire being hottest draws sap, just like solder runs to heat. This is most interesting. Thank you.

Here is another picture from RileySugarbush in this picture you can see the flues and see how the surface are is greatly increased.

Raised and drop flues work the same and boil just as equal. But the raised flue has 2 floats were the dropped has 1.

How do you decide which style is for you?
What ever you can afford of can make I guess.

[Mac_Muz]

I clicked the link at the bottom of your post. I didn't see any pans well, but you sure did a great job sticking that tractor up snugg didn't ya? LOL... I am glad i wasn't there for that bit of magic words..

Do canuks swear in both French and English at the same time?

[jemsklein]

Yah that was my brother joy riding LOL.
I forgot to post the picture well here it is.

[Mac_Muz]

Ah hA! So flames go rippin thru these plates and heat up, to carry heat to the pan.

Are these boxed in and sealed? Do they run the total length of the pan?

I think I could make these and weld them on my pan maybe. The problem being this pan is 24 Ga. I made the calls did the homework and was told 2 gauges were in stock, 20 Ga which i wanted more than 22 Ga, but alas when i got there the ahhum computer read out and what was really there was WRONG And it was 24 ga or nuthin.

Now i don't know about you, but I find boiling anything with nuthin for a pan is some wicked hard to do and still have anything left after boiling.

I plan to build a fire so hot that I can see right thru the bottom of this pan when it contains 4" of sap... I have made barrel rigs see thru like that before, but never a pan. So hot sparks zip right off the steel. What i am seeing is a shadow of the fire and the wood inside and of course carbon loss as sparks.

This info could be converted to a better quality pan next year.

I assume this parts must be welded, I don't see solder doing the task, but then I could be wrong...

I am sure i can get a tractor stuck, although I never have. What's the pay in Canada for a tractor stucker?

[RileySugarbush]

Mac_muz,

They are not just plates, they are filled with sap and are open on the top. The purpose of the flues, drop or raised, is to increase the surface area of the pan exposed to the flue gases, and therefore increasing the heat transfer to the sap and evaporation rate. Since they are always wet on one side, they can be soldered, they never get above the current boiling temperature.

[maplekid]

i think thios can help you a little http://www.maplemadness.com/used/pan_3x12V_back_t.jpg

[jemsklein]

Thank you RileySugarbush you explained it so much better then I did.

[Fred Henderson]

In a drop flue style pan the sap space is 5/8" and the fire space it 1-1/4".

[Mac_Muz]

Are these extended fins some how attached to each other? How in the world do you drain them?

Maple Kid thanks for the pic..

[RileySugarbush]

In my drop flue, 2'x3', there are no drains. If you want to empty them you need to siphon them out. I leave the flue pan full for the season. The connection to the syrup pan, which is a flat pan for finishing is at a level above the top of the flues. Some drop flues have drains.

Raised flue pans have the same type of flues sticking up into a deeper pan, and the hot gases go up and inside the flues.
no worry in draining them, you just drain the pan.

Mine are not connected together, but I have seen some that are for strength.

[Mac_Muz]

RileySugarbush, That is interesting. You can leave these slots filled huh? Is there fluid exchanged, by means of heat driving the flow up from in these wells, so it mixes, or do you get maple sugar over 219' down in there and then it settles?

I can't guess, but I seem forced to. I understand you know, and so can't think to tell a newbie what is so common for you to know.

I have to ask outrageous questions, and make wild guesses.

I run a bow drill to make fire, and have now for years and so when asked i seem to forget all the little details that make it work to fire. I sort of blow off the questions thinking the newbie already must know. I can do the same talking about loading and firing a flintlock. I have doing doing these things a long time and the details are no longer thought about. It all just happens with no thinking at all.

So I can understand just how hard it is to articulate answers to my questions.

I have one invite to go see a working rig, much bigger than mine. I hope to go see it too, but I bet there will be some much to see, it will be hard to take the lesson. I can imagine I might have so many questions the sugar man just might shoot me, for driving him crazy.

[Valley View Sugarhouse]

You are welcome in my sugarhouse anytime you would like and in my sugarhouse there is no question that is too small..

Andy

[RileySugarbush]

The boiling in those slots is so wild that everything is well mixed. Imagine a pot of boiling water. Much more mixing than that!

If you can view quicktime web videos, you can see some wild boiling on my old steam table pans. Go to the link below. The first two pans are flat and the second two have flue tubes, which are just closed copper tubes like little missile silos. Look close and you can see sap drops flying 6" in the air. In this rig, transfer between pans is by had with a saucepan, always moving towards the flat pans.

http://web.mac.com/jabushey/iWeb/Riley%20Retreat/Sugaring%202006.html

I don't think anyone here minds any questions asked. Except those relating to gas tanks.

[TapME]

john, did you get the better boiling with the blower at what speed?
Nice looking block arch by the way.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I think on all newer drop flue pans, there is a drain on the bottom of the rear part of the flues and it drains all the flues as each one is connected into the drain.

[RileySugarbush]

On that rig, I got the best boil rate with the leaf blower at full speed, but it through ashes out. With the thing at roughly 80% I could get 15gph if I kept up with the firing. The blower helped a ton, especially late in the day, since I didn't end up with a giant pile of coals clogging up the grate. The flue tubes helped a lot too.

I used that for 9 years, adding little improvements every year. Always as a big batch in one day. It never dawned on me to leave the sweet in there and boil over a couple of days. I thought that was pretty good for a block arch, but I really like the new 2x6, and being indoors, but on nice days, standing around the pans outside was great.

[peacemaker]

i have to agree no problem with ?? love when people come the the shack and talk ... and mac same your welcome to come set and boil with me anytime

[Mac_Muz]

I am hoping to come see, but didn't want to take the liberty and post it publicly. Thanks.

[brookledge]

On my first drop flue I bought in 1976 or 77 which was a 2X6 the flue pan had a manifold conecting all of the flues with a 3/4" pipe comming out of the side of the arch by the stack. Just had to unscrew the pipe and valve to take the flue pan off.
Keith