now here is a good question

[jemsklein]

now here is a good question if your maple tree is growing on the edge of a spring or river doas it grow faster nad doas it produce more sap

[SBClorite]

I have the same question about "swamp" maples.
I have some wet areas, which my father-in-law says is a waste to tap because the trees just suck water.
I don't think this is true because the sap tastes sweet and it would stand to reason that a tree will absorb only as much water as it needs.
I have yet to test that sap specifically with a hydrometer, but most of my maples have about 2 1/2 percent. The whole property has a high water table.
I think trees with the water would grow faster if they have good sunlight also. The combination should produce a larger (therefore more sap producing) tree.
I've seen a lot of wetlands loaded with maples around. The ice forms around them, but I doubt the roots freeze. It would be nice to tap them during cold years when there is a lot of ice, if they produce the same, or better, than sunny sloped trees.
Any thoughts would be great.

[twigbender]

I have only tapped for three seasons but my experience leads me to believe that the maples closer to the water table produce more sap than those on the ridges. It stands to reason. And, I don't think it's less sugar content than other maples either. After all, the sap is coming from the roots or branches and there isn't any more water coming in than going out. So, if a maple in the swamp produces a gallon a day and a maple of a ridge produces a gallon a day, other factors being equal, those sap contents should be the same -- at least the maple in the swamp should not have lower content because it's closer to the water table.
The folks that I bought my equipment from had sugared for 26 years. They claimed that the very best maples to tap were the ones right on the edge of the swamp.

[Brent]

Our bush has a small pond with maples so close that in spring flood I am standing in mud at the edge to get the buckets. My first instincts were that these would be the best producers. After 4 years, I don't think that's the case. Because they're on the south exposure, they start early because of sun heating, but they dwindle fast. Up the hill only 75 feet of so away, I get more sap consistently and longer into the season.

I have been thinning the beeches at the edge of the pond so we'll see of the crowns grow in to increase the flow. Lots of factors at work besides being just close to the pond

[pennslytucky]

sugar maples arent as good at growing in the lowlands as reds so there may be a correllation there. reds will produce higher amounts of lower sugar sap, so the old timers may have seen this as a "swamp tree" trait instead of a red maple trait.

[SBClorite]

My father-in-law is about as old and grizzled as you can get (and still be alive). He has a lot of good working knowledge and lore, but he doesn't know a lot of the real reasoning behind them (he just thinks he does).
Looking out my window, I see that I have mostly reds out there. 2 1/2 percent sugar is pretty good for a red, isn't it? All I know is, the syrup sure tastes good.

[New Hope Mapleman]

We were in Watersmeet MI up in the UP of MI for quite some time. The group I worked for had 2200 of forest and swamp land. We made syrup and all I can say is it wasn't the same as what we make here. I thought it smelled like swamp water. If you don't know what that is you'd have to go hiking on the bogs with 40 other guys. You get to know what it smells like--not good. The syrup tasted fine, but just smelled dif.

Also those trees never ran good. We tried alot of stuff, but I never saw a good run there in seven years.

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

I was referring to trees around a stream or spring earlier, not swamp trees. I think there is such a thing as too much water and I would think that would be the case. I never thought a sugar maple would live in a swamp, but I don't know. Just know I never saw one and I wouldn't want to tap in a swamp having to deal with all the mess.

[MR Electrician]

our property sits on a large aquafer the watter just bubbles out of the hillside and never stops running.really good drinking watter we get our well water from300 ft into it and it really tasty watter.
so watter for the maples isnt an issue.
our problem is we have had a virgin mixed bush and were now weeding out a lot of the beeches ,birtch and cedars,
were going to keep the silver birtches for birtch sap.

[brookledge]

I think in general maples that are close to constant water sources will do better in the long run. You never have to worry about a drought. And in the year that there may be a drought the trees are not going to be able to produce as much starch that will translate into higher sugar content the following year
Keith

[Daren]

Water supply may be nice and it is certainly important for the whole thing to work, but demand for water is all about the crown isn't it? Weather the tree is near a swamp or other water source or if it is on a dry ledge, the demand for water will come from the development of a crown and the leaves that make it. If adequate water is present, a tree should attempt to move enough water and nutrients that the developing buds ask for. No more or no less. If supply is a problem, some buds do not develop that year and as such cant do the photosynthysis thing that makes the sugars in the first place...hence next year might suck for that tree from a maple sugar standpoint. If there is more water than the tree calls for...nothin happens...water just doesnt go up the trunk and move the sugars...marginal tree....unhealthy tree speaks for itself. A good healthy crown in either red or sugar maple will produce more and sweeter sap ..... it has too or it starts to decline too. I am not sure exactly why sugars have a higher content than reds if both are booming with crown, but at that point....who cares right?

[twigbender]

I think that Daren is onto something here. Geez, did I have to say that about someone from Vermont! ;-) A large crown will require more water and if it is not available, somethings gotta give. I would suggest that rather than some of the buds not opening, they do open, but produce much smaller leaves.
The more I understand about maples, the more I realize that I don't know much about them at all! They are a confusing lot.

[brookledge]

But going back to the original question about trees with a good source of water giving more sap, I agree that a big tree with a full crown has to be getting a good supply of water in order to grow like it did, but what about the year where there is a drought and the tree suffers from it and doesn't make as much starch to store in the roots?
That is why I'd say over the long run trees with a constant water supply will do better than trees that are high and dry. Provided that the trees have nice full crowns.
Keith

[SBClorite]

Does a higher water table keep the roots warmer?
I've heard that good sugaring years occur when there is sufficient snow to keep the frost from getting too deep. The roots can release more starch if they aren't too cold.
That is why I thought a foot deep swamp full of red maples might be a great untapped resource. If the frost can't penetrate to the roots, then they have a chance to really pump out the sap. It's a really sunny patch too (looks like a monoculture).

[peacemaker]

i had two trees ones roots went under the tream the other was about 50 yards back same size tree and nice crowns they werent crowded the one in the stream ran first ran harder but the one in the open away fromm stream put out the same amount of sap started a little latter but ran much longer ...i think the water thaws them sooner but they seemed to produce the same

[TapME]

to bad you could not segregate that one bush and do a study while using the sap to make syrup? As a lot of traders have said here before never pass a maple by if its on the way, red or other wise.

[SBClorite]

That's why my Father-in-Law swears by buckets.
With a bucket, you can hear the sap dripping, check it's color and sugar, even taste it. With the tubing you don't get to know the habits of your sugarbush and we lose some of the real fundamentals.
I'm glad so many of you still use buckets, even if it's only a hundred or so.
As far as a study, it'll give me an excuse to build a second arch! I'll have to find out who owns the land first (if you can call it land).

[jemsklein]

well we have cut down this one maple about a year ago and the rings were about 1/2 - 1 inch apart and it was growing right on the spring it was 35 years old and at the smallest part was 25 inches in diemeter we cut it down cuz it had a disease