sap priceing

[paul]

can anyone tell me an easy way to figure out how much the sap i`m buying is worth

[VT maple maker]

Im new at sugaring but i would think it would be based on sugar content and the clarity of the sap.

[brookledge]

Usually in the Feb. maple digest they print a list of sugested prices.
Another thing that can be done is agree with the supplier on a price times the test. Like 12 times the test, so 3% would be .36/gallon.
You really need to test it though because that is the only way to know if you are buying water or good sap and likewise the supplier knows that they are getting a fair price for it.
Also like VT maple maker said the clarity and condition of it. I know some buyers will set up a price and go with it for the year but will not paysomeone the same amount if they only bring in sap at the end of the season which tends to make commercial. That way they get good sap in the beginning and poor sap in the end which averages out compared to someone trying to sell sap at the end of the year which is only going to make commercial
Keith

[Fred Henderson]

In the recent maple digest it said that sap goes for a higher price in the north east. There was a whole chart there but one I remember was that 2 % would be .30 cents per gallon delivered to the sap house.

[Dalestead]

I buy about 1500 taps of sap from a couple of guys and here is how I do it.
I pay 10 cents per point of sweetness ( 2.5% = .25 cents per gallon ond so on) delivered to me. I promise to take the sap from start to finish as long as they gather every day. However with the rising price of syrup I will probaly add 3 cents per gallon this year on top of the 10 cents per point.

[paul]

thanks for the replies guys. Dalestead that`s what we`ve been doing, just that this year with the price of syrup being as high as it is i knew i would have to pay more and that`s only right. It cost them as much per tap to set up as it did me.

Thank Paul

[markcasper]

Heres what I did last year. I pay .10 per ponit/ 3.0%= .30 a gallon.

Figure out how much syrup you will get from their sap.

The above figures were not enough with the rising bilk price, so I added in
16% to make it even out.

Basically whatever the bulk price is, the sap supplier should gat one-half that.

I got $2/lb for everything, so the sap supplier should be making $1.00/lb.

I kept my syrup through last year and also made an agreement with my sap supplier to not pay him until I sold my bulk, that way he could capture any increase in price.

I do not figure their price on my own bottled syrup sales, as I am the one "adding" value to that. Filtering, bottling, advertising, delivering and the such.

[brookledge]

The reason I sugested going to .12 times the test is the rising cost. It used to be the rule of thumb in my area for along time that .10 times the test was good.
Keith

[markcasper]

A number of years ago I sold sap one year. The farmer who I sold it too offered to pay "Maple Digest" prices, or take 1/2 the resultant syrup for which my sap made. It made sense to take my half and then go sell it bulk, it was like 20% higher in price, more than getting payed for the sap outright.

I needed the syrup for my own sales, but still.

So now when I buy sap, I always make sure to keep it about 50/50 the bulk price.

When syrup was 1.40/1.60 lb range, the .10 point worked well.

When making commercial and it was > $1.00 lb, I paid less and sometimes they just quit.

[Cardigan99]

I think it's interesting that the agreed on cost is 50% of the syrup value. Is the cost of setting up and maintaining a sugar bush of X number of taps equal to the 'pro rated' value of the evaporator and the time and cost of fuel for boiling?

Todd

[markcasper]

I do not know what you mean by equal? It would depend on who you talk to and what the proximity of the trees are to your sugarhouse.

I do not buy nearly the sap that I did in past years, but I always believed I was better off buying and boiling than trying to get more of my own tapped. Reason: I tapped all of the easily accessed trees I have, the other half that aren't tapped would require much more effort and expense to get the sap to the road. Not impossible, just more difficult.

The evaporator is a fixed cost and would cost me the same whether I bought sap or not. ran 200 gallons through or 600 gallons of syrup in a season.

One other note: Go try and buy a sugarbush today, if there are any. I'll guarantee that land and good timber have risen 3-4 fold when considering how much the cost has risen for an evaporator.

[brookledge]

I got my feb maple digest and looked at the sugested prices for sap. Sure is higher than most of us where sugesting aroun 10 to 12 times the test. The prices listed are about 18 times the test.
Keith

[fred]

supply and demand.bulk prices have doubled. if there is no money in collecting sap there will be no syrup

[PA mapler]

A guy down the road from me said he's selling his early sap for 50 cents a gallon, and somewhat less for the later sap. Seems like alot to me! If it weren't so much fun boiling, I'd consider that myself.

[OGDENS SUGAR BUSH]

PA MAPLER any idea what the sugar content was. at 2% that makes the finished product 21.00 per gallon

RICH

[PA mapler]

Don't know. The guy just said that's what they were paying for early sap, regardless of sugar. Seems high to me, unless someone knows something about this year's syrup prices-to-be that we don't! But this is all hearsay, I didn't hear it from the horse's mouth (buyer), maybe the guy was exaggerating.

[H. Walker]

In 2001 was the last time I sold sap and I was getting around 50 cents a gallon for 3.25% sap then.

[brookledge]

The prices in the digest have 2.9% at .513
So at 2.9% that would be 29.6 gal of sap to 1gal syrup.
29.6 gal X .513= $15.15
That same gallon sold at wholesale would be worth $24.75 (using $2.25/lb.)
Now if you boil with oil and are paying around $3/gal and it takes about 3 gal of oil to make a gal of syrup then you are spending about $9.00
When you do the math subtracting the 9 from the 24.75 that leaves you at 15.75 and you paid someone 15.15 so all your getting is .60 per gallon of syrup.
To me thats not worth it. So I think the prices in the digest are high but then again if I was selling sap and saw the prices published I'd want to get those prices.
Keith

[Cardigan99]

Using Keith's example above, paying $.513 per gallon of sap is going to give 61% of the sale of a gallon of syrup to the guy selling the sap. Or 39% to the guy boiling. That seems pretty steep.

The $.10 per point of syrup is definitely a better deal for the guy boiling. At any sugar content the math works out to $8.60 per gallon, or 34% of the sale, to the guy selling sap.

Incidentally, if you wanted to use the price per point of sugar content system that split the price 50/50 at any sugar content, the factor is .143895 X sugar content (ex: for 2% sugar content you would pay 2 X .143895 = .287791, for 3%, 3 X .143895 = .431686 etc). This would split the price of $24.75 @ $12.375 each (based on $2.25 per lb)

[Russ]

In terms of risk versus reward, I think that in terms of cost, the collector has a greater exposure. When you factor in the labor that goes into tapping and collecting, with no control over the harvest, the collector's reward is far more variable than the boiler's. The boiler likely has a greater capital cost with the RO, evaporator, filter press, tanks,etc..., but that cost is spread out over many years. All the labor that a collector puts in is spent for that year (other than setting up tubing networks, if they do that). Personally, I think that 50/50 is about the right split.

I talked to a producer near where I live last night... he's planning on paying 10 cents/point. He only has 1 competitor for sap purchasing, compared to producers in other areas where the competition is greater. Ultimately the market determines the going price and it won't be the same everywhere.

[PA mapler]

My husband talked to that guy again, he's getting 50 cents for early sap, and 30 cents for later sap. Must be alot of competition here!

[WESTVIRGINIAMAPLER]

Must not be much competition if he is getting that kind of price!!!!!!