Leader clear 5 plate press

[dcast99]

Has anyone had a problem with the press leaking between the plates? For the first 3 years the press worked great after we found the right amount of DE to use. Last year and this year the press is our major source of frustration. It seems we have a 50% chance of the press leaking. It may start as a drip but when we switch to putting the syrup into the canner it will spray hot syrup everywhere. We are cleaning it after each use with hot condensate off the steam hood. Still using the same box of papers we got with the press. How tight do you tighten the wing nuts? We have tried snug to strong man tight with no clear results. We make sure the 1st plate(with the hose connections) is not cocked and that all of the papers are in correctly. I really wish the sealing surface of the screen plates was more than 1/8" but it has worked in the past. When we take it apart there is no tale tell sign of any miss alignment. What are we doing wrong?
Thanks

[johnallin]

Has anyone had a problem with the press leaking between the plates? For the first 3 years the press worked great after we found the right amount of DE to use. Last year and this year the press is our major source of frustration. It seems we have a 50% chance of the press leaking. It may start as a drip but when we switch to putting the syrup into the canner it will spray hot syrup everywhere. We are cleaning it after each use with hot condensate off the steam hood. Still using the same box of papers we got with the press. How tight do you tighten the wing nuts? We have tried snug to strong man tight with no clear results. We make sure the 1st plate(with the hose connections) is not cocked and that all of the papers are in correctly. I really wish the sealing surface of the screen plates was more than 1/8" but it has worked in the past. When we take it apart there is no tale tell sign of any miss alignment. What are we doing wrong?
Thanks

Dave,
I've had a clear press for 6 years now, the only times it ever shot syrup was when I had the valve closed feeding the bottle tank, had a plate in backwards and once with a paper upside down - holes at top.
It sounds like you're doing everything right, I can only offer what I do using mine...
-I crank the wing nuts about as far as I dare.
-I marked to tops of the plates and screens with a black arrow to be sure I've loaded everything correctly. Gives me a final visual check before I crank it down tight.
-I pre-wet the papers with a mist bottle, Not much but they're damp for sure.
-The holes are lined up properly when the top of the paper is EVEN with the top of the plates.
-Make sure syrup is hot, if it's not the press is working over time trying to get through the papers.
-Make sure valve is open coming out of the press.
I'm a big fan of that press and can't see ever not having one. Being able to see the cake build up - and knowing if I need more DE - and what's left in the press when I'm about empty in the tank is great.
Fred was giving it a bad wrap but turns out he was just jealous :cool:
Good luck and sure hope you get it figured out.
John

[dcast99]

The syrup going in is definitely hot. We tend to do 6 gal batches. In a 7 gal pot we put in 6 gal of syrup on a turkey fryer burner. Bring it to boil, check density then add DE. We leave the flame on low as we pump it thru the press.
Will be boiling again on Friday. Since it leaked 2 of the 3 times we used it this year, hopefully Friday will go smoothly. Fingers, toes, eyes and everything else will be crossed.

[DrTimPerkins]

Did a plate get dropped or the nuts way overtightened? Do a check for fine cracks?

[dcast99]

Nothing got dropped. At the end of the day the plates are taken out and put into 2 buckets partially filled with hot condensate to get cleaned. If there are fine cracks wouldn't it leak all of the time? We have used it 3 times so far this year. 1st = leak, 2nd = no leaks, 3rd = leaks. Hopefully it won't leak tomorrow. As for the wing nuts, we have tried a little more than snug up to as tight as possible. Tomorrow we are going to number the plates and see if the same plate is causing the problem. I don't know if that will tell us anything as last time it leaked in a couple of different areas. I will be making some deflector plates to keep any spraying syrup contained to the pan.

[TapTapTap]

Hi DCast99,

I used to have the Leader filter press. I never had your issue but did have lots of dripping into the drip pan. I have since I upgraded in size and switched to the cast aluminum plate style. I've been much happier with the new press and the tightening rods are much heavier proportional to the increase in plate size which allows for much more compression force on the plates. It also has a much greater capacity to contain excess filter media (DE). I've been able to tighten the press down sufficiently to prevent any drips.

On another note, I'm not clear on your procedures. First, you talk about the "switch to putting syrup in the canner" as being the start of the problem. I'm assuming you are pre-coating the press prior to the canning but that's not clear. Secondly, it looks like you are batching the the finishing off on the turkey frier. Does that mean you are only filtering the finish batches? And it' doesn't make sense that you are finishing 6 gallons of syrup in a 7 gallon frier - how is it possible to boil syrup without about a 2:1 space needed to contain a boil?

And, I'm also curious, how much DE are you using? Could it be that you are over loading the press?

Good Luck

Ken

[johnallin]

Ken makes some good points…
Do you have a pressure gauge on the press? If not, I’d suggest installing one.
Pressure shouldn’t go much over 40, Maybe 50, psi if everything is done right.
If you see higher pressure something’s not right.
I’d also try cranking it down tighter than you are and if it’s still squirting syrup, it’s likely a paper, or plate in wrong.
A pressure gauge will give you really good info on what’s happening inside the press.

[dcast99]

This is how we use the filter press.
We draw off the evap all day into a 7 gal pot( any additional syrup gets put into another pail
At the end of the day we reheat the 6 gal of syrup in the 7 gal pot to a boil and adjust density.
We add 6 cups of DE (you need the extra room because if the syrup is too hot, the DE will cause a foam over)
We start the press with the intake line in the pot and the output line going back into the pot. Needed to heat the press and to fully coat the papers.
Once the output line is running clear and the papers are fully coated, we stop the pump and move the output line to the canner.
We now restart the pump and run it until the pot is empty.
Any additional syrup is now put into the 7 gal pot and heated to a boil to start the process again.
While waiting for the next batch to heat up we bottle what is in the canner.
Any additional batches only get 2 to 3 cups of DE.
We are not having a problem getting the syrup thru the press.
If a minor drip occurs while we are Charging/coating the papers, after the brief shutdown to move the output line to the canner it may progress to spraying out. We restart the Air pump as slow as possible.
We did number the plates today to keep track exactly where/if it leaks.
Had a very minor leak today(about a tablespoons worth). I'll take that any day.
So that makes this year's usage - 1. leak 2. no leak 3. leak 4. no leak

There is a gauge on the air pump. we are not over pressurizing it. Plates are in correctly. If a spay does occur, we carefully disassemble and look at each paper. It is never torn.

[johnallin]

<We add 6 cups of DE (you need the extra room because if the syrup is too hot, the DE will cause a foam over...>
The 6 cups of DE, and the size of your container may be the problem... depending on the quality of the syrup 6 cups may not be enough.
If you find you need to limit the DE due to a "foam over" - I'd suggest a bigger vessel for re-heating, pretty much what Ken was suggesting...
The DE is doing the filtering, if your using all 6 plates; 6 cups may not be enough.

[TapTapTap]

I'm thinking you may be overloading the press with DE. I see from the manual that the initial charge should be 2/3 cup per gallon (presumably for about 3 gallons = 2 cups) and then 1/4 cup per gallon after. My 10" press manual says to use 4 cups for the initial charge (which is roughly the same as the Leader manual considering my larger plates on a per sq foot basis) and then 1 cup per 5 gallons after (almost identical to the Leader manual). That said, I tend to go heavier with the DE but I think your press might also narrower plates than mine so it won't hold nearly as much DE for us heavy "users".

I know most people disagree, but I personally believe that you only need enough DE to get visibly clear syrup and that means you could use a lot less than we all typically use. My personal experience is that I see very good results with the recommended dose of DE.

Thanks for posting this issue. It has been helpful for my own filtering practices to re-evaluate the manual and better understand the filter press. I even found an error in the DE dosage rate example in the CDL manual page 10.

Ken

[dcast99]

Yes, we learned to let the syrup cool for a few minutes so that the DE does not foam it up. As stated, we have no problem with the syrup going thru the press. Last year we had problems with the recommended 2/3 cups per gal for the first 3 gal and 1/4 cup for each additional gal (2 3/4 cups total). The syrup was too dirty and would not go thru the press. We now use 5 - 6 cups initially and 2 cup each batch thereafter. The other day we ran 3 batches thru the press and the total DE build up in the voids was maybe 5/16". The voids a 1" wide so we are far from filling up the press. Under DEing the syrup WILL block the filtering process and cause pressure problems.

[TapTapTap]

Last year we had problems with the recommended 2/3 cups per gal for the first 3 gal and 1/4 cup for each additional gal (2 3/4 cups total). The syrup was too dirty and would not go thru the press. We now use 5 - 6 cups initially and 2 cup each batch thereafter. The other day we ran 3 batches thru the press and the total DE build up in the voids was maybe 5/16". The voids a 1" wide so we are far from filling up the press. Under DEing the syrup WILL block the filtering process and cause pressure problems.

You should not have any problems passing raw syrup without DE through the press. I can't imagine that your syrup is too dirty to pass. Adding DE should not help syrup flow. I can only imagine a problem pumping dirty syrup if it is so laden with niter plates that it won't pass through the lines which you could be correcting by simply breaking up the niter plates by the action of stirring in the DE. But at the point of that much niter you would likely not even be able to drawoff.

This seems totally off from how I would expect the press to work.

I also need to ask - are you using maple approved DE from your Leader/H2O dealer? I've heard of problems with non maple DE.

Good Luck

Ken

[SeanD]

I've been following this with curiosity. I wish I could nail a solution, though my hunch is some type of minute imperfection in a plate or two that when assembled in a certain way, the imperfections marry and you get a tight seal then when the plates are in a different order, the imperfection(s) don't match up and you get a sliver of space where the syrup can spurt out. i think numbering your plates could rule that idea in or out.

I don't think the amount of DE you use is going to be the issue, especially if you have a gauge on the press and nothing is happening there. Each manufacturer has their own formulas. My CDL recommends charging with 4 cups of DE with 3 gallons then 1 cup per 5 gallons after.

The only thing that caught my attention, but is unlikely the source of your problem, is the boiling of the finished syrup. My press doesn't work as well when the syrup is close to boiling. I've found that 200-203F is a sweet spot of hot enough to get 185-190F output into a keg. If I've gotten distracted and the pot of unfiltered syrup climbs into the 212-215 range, the pumps starts to surge and labor. That's likely not your issue if you are letting the syrup cool, though.

[dcast99]

The DE is from Leader.

SeanD - Your line of thinking is what we are working on by numbering the plates. We noted exactly where the last leak/drip was and the next time we will see if it is at the same spot. After adjusting density and adding DE, I'm sure the syrup has cooled to the 200 to 205 range.

TapTap - The DE is the filter media. Any niter will instantly clog the papers. The papers just hold the DE in place. Not enough DE and the niter will clog the DE. The only problem with using too much DE is that the void plates will fill up before you are done processing all of your syrup.

This is now a trial and error process. If a problem exists in the exact same spot, we know we have a problem with that plate. I think we can remove 1 plate and run the press. The amount we are filtering at one time does not max out the capacity of the press.
We'll see what happens.

[johnallin]

The DE is from Leader.
.....This is now a trial and error process. If a problem exists in the exact same spot, we know we have a problem with that plate. I think we can remove 1 plate and run the press. The amount we are filtering at one time does not max out the capacity of the press.
We'll see what happens.

As long as you have 3 plates, that should work ...I run my press with 3 out of the 5 plates it came with and it's fine for the 5-8 gal we filter.
I found some 1/2" ID x 1.25" HDPE spacers at McMaster Carr to slide over the threaded rod to take place of the spacer.
Good luck and hope you get the problem solved.