Will sap flow through a shurflo if it’s not running?

[82cabby]

Hi gang, this will be my first season with any kind of vacuum system. I’ve mentioned it in other threads but to recap: 100 ish taps on multiple 5/16th runs to a shurflo with a temperature controlled on/off setup. It turns on at 34 and off at 30.

I’m a little worried about something going wrong, like the power going off or the temp sensor not working properly. My question is, if the pump is off for some reason, will sap still flow through it or will the pump block the flow completely? I have a very good slope to the pump so the sap can definitely flow with just gravity. Obviously it would flow better with the pump on but if it’s not, does that mean it’s shut off altogether?

Thanks!

[Scm]

Hi gang, this will be my first season with any kind of vacuum system. I’ve mentioned it in other threads but to recap: 100 ish taps on multiple 5/16th runs to a shurflo with a temperature controlled on/off setup. It turns on at 34 and off at 30.

I’m a little worried about something going wrong, like the power going off or the temp sensor not working properly. My question is, if the pump is off for some reason, will sap still flow through it or will the pump block the flow completely? I have a very good slope to the pump so the sap can definitely flow with just gravity. Obviously it would flow better with the pump on but if it’s not, does that mean it’s shut off altogether?

Thanks!

I don't believe sap will pass through. On my previous setup. I had a bypass with a check valve.

[littleTapper]

Hi gang, this will be my first season with any kind of vacuum system. I’ve mentioned it in other threads but to recap: 100 ish taps on multiple 5/16th runs to a shurflo with a temperature controlled on/off setup. It turns on at 34 and off at 30.

I’m a little worried about something going wrong, like the power going off or the temp sensor not working properly. My question is, if the pump is off for some reason, will sap still flow through it or will the pump block the flow completely? I have a very good slope to the pump so the sap can definitely flow with just gravity. Obviously it would flow better with the pump on but if it’s not, does that mean it’s shut off altogether?

Thanks!

I shut off much colder and start much colder. When air temp drops at night, the trees can keep running and if it's warm enough coming out and it keeps moving, you'll keep getting sap. Shut off too soon, you could see lines push off the tees or spiles unseat a bit; especially once it freezes.

The Shurflo setup I built for a new set of trees this year doesn't even have a temp controller. Once it's on, it's on.

Sounds like an automated bypass valve would be a good idea (one that's normally open, and closes at the same time your pump kicks in)

[82cabby]

I shut off much colder and start much colder. When air temp drops at night, the trees can keep running and if it's warm enough coming out and it keeps moving, you'll keep getting sap. Shut off too soon, you could see lines push off the tees or spiles unseat a bit; especially once it freezes.

The Shurflo setup I built for a new set of trees this year doesn't even have a temp controller. Once it's on, it's on.

Sounds like an automated bypass valve would be a good idea (one that's normally open, and closes at the same time your pump kicks in)


What on and off temps are you using, if you don’t mind me asking?
I’m assuming the bypass would be a couple of tee fittings on either side of the pump and a normally open control valve in between. What would be the purpose and location of the check valve?

And by any chance would anyone have a link to a 12 v normally open ball valve that they have used?

Sorry for all the questions but Thanks for the help!

[Scm]

What on and off temps are you using, if you don’t mind me asking?
I’m assuming the bypass would be a couple of tee fittings on either side of the pump and a normally open control valve in between. What would be the purpose and location of the check valve?

And by any chance would anyone have a link to a 12 v normally open ball valve that they have used?

Sorry for all the questions but Thanks for the help!

My pump went on/off @ 30*
I used pex to make my manifold. A tee before and after the pump connected together with the check valve; was to prevent the pump from pulling from the out (collection tank) side.

[DRoseum]

I use these in a bypass loop around the pump

https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-check-valve-3-8-0-3-psi-crack-pressure?srsltid=AfmBOoq8ydhXBM2PGyIMj2WPlc0VYiXn0 iPOQ-WMDhoxR48hgWqdr22D&variant=37902506950840

[Scm]

https://i.ibb.co/1JhQPR6S/IMG-1581.png (https://ibb.co/k6kBwq1d)

This is the brass version of the one I used:
https://www.amazon.com/Flow-H2O-Beverage-Hydroponics-Anti-Back/dp/B07L2VMNCN

[82cabby]

Thank you everyone! That is super helpful, I really appreciate it!

[UB29]

This is the 12V solenoid I use. Can be wired for either NO/NC.
Bill

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OUTP6D8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[littleTapper]

What on and off temps are you using, if you don’t mind me asking?


I shut off at 28, on at 31.

[red/one]

What happens to the vacuum on the lines when everything shuts down on low temp? With the check valve does it remain? Does it hurt production at all? Asking also because when I switch batteries I have to shut it down and/or switch to gravity. You can see the sap change directions back towards the taps. If I install the check valve will it eliminate the back flow?

[Scm]

What happens to the vacuum on the lines when everything shuts down on low temp? With the check valve does it remain? Does it hurt production at all? Asking also because when I switch batteries I have to shut it down and/or switch to gravity. You can see the sap change directions back towards the taps. If I install the check valve will it eliminate the back flow?

I had a silicone heat pad (https://www.amazon.com/ADUCI-Silicone-Windshield-Thermal-Flexible/dp/B0923JV41Ddib_tag=se&keywords=12+volt+silicone+heat+tape&qid=1740150015&sprefix=12+volt+silicone+heat+tap%2Caps%2C161&sr=8-50) setup to a temp controller (https://www.amazon.com/bayite-Fahrenheit-Digital-Temperature-Controller/dp/B011VGAPOC) to keep the box from freezing. once the lines thaw out the sap would flow through the box (check valve) if the pump didn't already turn on. Use check valve spouts. but otherwise backflow in the lines is going to happen anytime you shut off the pump.

[DRoseum]

You could put shut off valves (or check valves) on each line to prevent backflow when shutting off the pump. I have shutoff valves for each line to be able to isolate them while chasing a leak. Been very tempted to also put check valves at the end of each line right before the pump manifold to isolate loss of vacuum if there is a leak on one line.

In general you should try to have your pump shut off and start up at temps that are below the freeze point of the tubing lines. This helps keep vacuum on them while they freeze. Also suggest use of CV spouts.

[ADK_XJ]

You could put shut off valves (or check valves) on each line to prevent backflow when shutting off the pump. I have shutoff valves for each line to be able to isolate them while chasing a leak. Been very tempted to also put check valves at the end of each line right before the pump manifold to isolate loss of vacuum if there is a leak on one line.

In general you should try to have your pump shut off and start up at temps that are below the freeze point of the tubing lines. This helps keep vacuum on them while they freeze. Also suggest use of CV spouts. What have you found is that freezing/freeze-up point for 3/16 tubing? I've already followed your advice and installed the CV spouts for this year but have wondered what to set as my temp range for the pump controller and heater.

[DRoseum]

Mine are set similar to littleTapper. Turn off around 29F (-1.6 or -1.7 C), on at 31.5 (-0.3C). I set my heaters to keep the cooler boxes for my pumps and my ROs in the 36 - 38F range (2.2 -3.3C)

[SapTsunami]

I don't have a temperature controller for my Shurflo pump

Can I just leave it running 24/7 through the whole season? The lines will freeze but the recirculating line will stay melted due to the waste heat from the pump, right?

[Scm]

I don't have a temperature controller for my Shurflo pump

Can I just leave it running 24/7 through the whole season? The lines will freeze but the recirculating line will stay melted due to the waste heat from the pump, right?

I have a shureflo hooked up to some sycamore trees that sits on top of the bucket and constantly runs. Have not had a problem yet other than having to change the (car) battery almost daily. And we've had nights of negative temps.