Switching from 5/16th to 3/16th drops?

[ADK_XJ]

We are going into our 4th year with a small 3/16th natural gravity setup for about 100 taps on 4 lines...my question is, does it make sense to swap out our 5/16th drops for new 3/16th ones and replace the tees?

When I installed this setup, my understanding was that 5/16th drops would help prevent any "back flow" of dirty sap into the tap hole. But, with the weird, unpredictable warm weather we've had the last few years, I think I can extend our season and improve our yield by switching to check valve taps.

When I switch taps, I figure it makes sense to replace the connections since I understand that is a place where debris builds up and can affect performance. We may even add an extra ShurFlo pump at the bottom of the line to help keep things moving.

Anyway, I'm interested in opinions, I have enough excess 3/16th tubing on hand to cut all new drops and tee them in but if it's not going to extend my season or improve yield on vacuum I'll leave it be...

[littleTapper]

Unless you need to swap out the Ts, 5/16 check valve spouts and what you have will work great. That's what I run on my 3/16. They run hard the entire season. I change the drop line every 3 years.

I'm going on year 7 for some of my 3/16. No buildup, no clogging, so far.

[ADK_XJ]

Unless you need to swap out the Ts, 5/16 check valve spouts and what you have will work great. That's what I run on my 3/16. They run hard the entire season. I change the drop line every 3 years.

I'm going on year 7 for some of my 3/16. No buildup, no clogging, so far.

Ok, but I am on 4 seasons with this setup so I should perhaps go ahead and change the drops anyway? You don't think there's anything vacuum pressure advantage to maintaining 3/16th up to the tap?

[littleTapper]

Ok, but I am on 4 seasons with this setup so I should perhaps go ahead and change the drops anyway? You don't think there's anything vacuum pressure advantage to maintaining 3/16th up to the tap?

Yeah, time to swap the drops. There's no difference (that I'm aware of) running 5/16 drops vs 3/16.

[ADK_XJ]

Yeah, time to swap the drops. There's no difference (that I'm aware of) running 5/16 drops vs 3/16.

I forgot one big advantage for me is that I only have a 3/16th tool...so, that may answer my own question. Haha.

[littleTapper]

I forgot one big advantage for me is that I only have a 3/16th tool...so, that may answer my own question. Haha.

That just might! I can do 5/16 and 3/16 both with my tools (homemade), so maybe you have some flexibility....or not!

[ADK_XJ]

That just might! I can do 5/16 and 3/16 both with my tools (homemade), so maybe you have some flexibility....or not!

I'm using the LineViper one-handed style (which I love) and it's only for 3/16th but it does A LOT with just the one tool.

[Pdiamond]

I like the 5/16 drops rather than the 3/16. This year I am going to test some of the anti-microbial spouts. Supposedly you don't have to change them out as often (every 3 years). I usually change the spouts and T's every year, but if these work out I may switch over completely.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Time to change drops or at least the T's on the 3/16" line. The fittings are where things get plugged up with 3/16". Last year was our 3rd year with one of our 3/16" lines and I spent a fair amount of time watching the sap flow and swapping out tees on the first good flow due to plugging. We change drops every 4th year. I'd stay with 5/16" drops.

[Brian]

If you guys are having the tees plug on the 3/16, if you figure in the amount of sap lost from plugging, is it worth it or would be better off just running 5/16 line and staying with that? I know the natural vacuum is better on the 3/16 vs the 5/16 but time is money and the cost of the fittings.

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

Well for us, it is only 30 taps and soon to be 50 of our taps on 3/16" line so I had it flowing good in part of a day. I went in the woods during a good run and broke the line in 3 sections (1 at a time) to let the gunk out. Replaced 3 or 4 more additional tees after chasing the sap to where it stopped flowing and was good to go for the rest of the season. Only had this issue in year 3. So I guess it depends on your availability to check the lines. This year (year 4) - two new 500' rolls of 3/16" with new taps and fittings are going to be installed to start over again.

I certainly much prefer real vacuum and 5/16" lines. I would never swap out a 5/16" vacuum setup for 3/16". But real vacuum isn't economical for only 50 taps so we ran the 3/16" and I like it. Pretty neat seeing 28" of vacuum at the end of the line without any mechanical means or cost.

[ADK_XJ]

If you guys are having the tees plug on the 3/16, if you figure in the amount of sap lost from plugging, is it worth it or would be better off just running 5/16 line and staying with that? I know the natural vacuum is better on the 3/16 vs the 5/16 but time is money and the cost of the fittings.

I'm not sure that I could achieve the same kind of natural vacuum effect with 5/16th and I do have the advantage of slope that pushed me toward a 3/16th system. I'm just a hobby sugarer so, for me, it definitely is a question of low investment and relatively low effort/time.

I will definitely swap out my tees and other fittings because I do see where there is gunk built up in the line right ahead of a junction and that indicates to me slow movement through that fitting. I think switching to 3/16th drops is as much about efficiency with installation as anything.

[buckeye gold]

I'm not sure that I could achieve the same kind of natural vacuum effect with 5/16th and I do have the advantage of slope that pushed me toward a 3/16th system. I'm just a hobby sugarer so, for me, it definitely is a question of low investment and relatively low effort/time.

I will definitely swap out my tees and other fittings because I do see where there is gunk built up in the line right ahead of a junction and that indicates to me slow movement through that fitting. I think switching to 3/16th drops is as much about efficiency with installation as anything.

I agree. As a hobby guy and 150 taps on six laterals of 3/16 I usually can do a little maintenance on fittings during season. I still change most out every year due to squirrel chews. I don't struggle with much gunk obstructing lines. I think this all goes back to your sanitation strategies. I repair and work all my lines prior to every season and I start at the high end tree using a garden sprayer filled with Calcium Hypochloride solution and under pressure I inject solution. I take the wand off and a spout fits well into the remaining fitting on the sprayer. This blows gunk out and disinfects before season. I do this all the way down the line at each tap and if I see a fitting with a problem I cut it out. If I see sections with mold I cut it out. Cleanliness and maintenance are key. I repeat this at the end of season. I just finished this work about two weeks ago in preparation for the season and I only cut one 6" section out for mold in approx. 4,000 feet of 3/16 tubing. I never found a single tee that didn't have good flow. ON a few I did have a little gunk flush loose from a tee. I still ended up replacing at least 50% of my tees due to squirrel damage. I replaced all my spouts and probably half my drops.

[eustis22]

no thought to using the 5/16 --> 3/16 tees?

also, rinse out your lines after the season....will cut down on the gunk

[maple flats]

I by far prefer 5/16 drops and spiles on my 3/16 latrals. While it doesn't prevent back flow it radically minimizes it. The sap does not get pulled back into the tree as it does with 3/16 drops. The gasses pass the sap in the drop leaving cross contamination minimized, if not eliminated. While the gasses get pulled back into the tap hole the contaminated sap in the drop is left behind in most cases. The exception might be is there is a solid column of sap in the drop whice is very rare if ever.

[DRoseum]

I use 3/16 for drops and CV spouts to prevent backflow. One advantage of CV spouts over 5/16 drops is that you can still prevent backflow when tapping below the lateral line. I like the flexibility of being able to tap below the lateral - whether out of necessity or just to increase the tapping band for tree health.

On year 5 of my 3/16 tubing and never had any clogging issues. I think this depends on your sanitation practices. I push food grade hydrogen peroxide up my lines each year and out of each spout and cap the lines full for 24 hrs minimum before draining them / pulling them dry and coiling up the tubing until the next season. So far my tubing looks nearly brand new. I cut off the CV spouts and replace them each year. Considering use of CV stubby spouts in the future to save a few bucks and simplify things.

[eustis22]

how much peroxide do you use?

[DRoseum]

You can buy concentrated food grade peroxide (12% or 35%) and dilute using boiled permeate to 3%. I think I use around 10 gallons of the 3% to clean all my lines.

[ADK_XJ]

You can buy concentrated food grade peroxide (12% or 35%) and dilute using boiled permeate to 3%. I think I use around 10 gallons of the 3% to clean all my lines. I suck at math, what's the calculation for getting 3% from the 35% peroxide? I have a jug from our water treatment system.

[buckeye gold]

here's the formula for needed amount of 35% - total fluid ounces desired x .03 /.35

example; to get 10 gallons of 3% solution multiply 10 x 128 oz ( number oz in a gallon) =1280 ounces

1280x.03 divided by .35 (the active ingredient strength of your concentrate) = 109.71 ounces of Hydrogen Peroxide into 1170.29 ounces of permeate or water

put the 109.71 ounces in your container and fill to 10 gallons

for one gallon 10.97 ounces 35% in a container and fill to one gallon

Of course it's easier just to round up and make it a bit stronger.

[nhdog]

you who use, do you flush your lines after using peroxide ?

[DRoseum]

No, I do mine in place and pull them dry with vacuum pump and then let them sit for a week before coiling them up for the off season. Peroxide breaks down into pure water over time. Use food grade only.

[eustis22]

I use calcium chloride.....pump the lines full....leave it sit for a day, flush them with warm water......lines are up year round.

[AlRock]

I use calcium chloride.....pump the lines full....leave it sit for a day, flush them with warm water......lines are up year round.

You leave the spouts in the tree or pulled and put in the tee when flushing?

[eustis22]

spouts are pulled and stuck in the tees

[ADK_XJ]

here's the formula for needed amount of 35% - total fluid ounces desired x .03 /.35

example; to get 10 gallons of 3% solution multiply 10 x 128 oz ( number oz in a gallon) =1280 ounces

1280x.03 divided by .35 (the active ingredient strength of your concentrate) = 109.71 ounces of Hydrogen Peroxide into 1170.29 ounces of permeate or water

put the 109.71 ounces in your container and fill to 10 gallons

for one gallon 10.97 ounces 35% in a container and fill to one gallon

Of course it's easier just to round up and make it a bit stronger.

Thank you!!