Minimum number of trees for tubing?

[madmaples]

Hey Folks,

I've mainly been doing buckets and bags, but I'd like to try some tubing with vacuum to see if I can get more sap from the trees I have and extend my season.
Whats the minimum number of trees I should consider putting tubing/vacuum in for?

I was considering starting with DIY vacuum system using a Shurflo 4008

[BAP]

There is no minimum. You could have 1 tap and it would work. How many taps do you currently have on buckets?

[berkshires]

There is no minimum. You could have 1 tap and it would work. How many taps do you currently have on buckets?

I did a test a few years back. I normally use all drop lines to buckets, but I had one big tree that I wanted to try to access, way up on a very steep (like 45 degree!) slope. So I figured I'd put a couple of taps on it with 3/16 to a collection bucket at the bottom of the slope. I tried it for two years, and it performed very poorly. Whenever I looked, it had no sap in the line. I think you need a certain number of taps to get sufficient flow to fill the 3/16, or else it will just drip down without forming a vacuum. At least if the slope is as steep as mine was.

Just my $.02

Cheers,

GO

[DRoseum]

No real minimum, but obviously makes it far more worth your investment the more you have. I started with ~50 buckets I got 2nd hand from my father (also from Chesterland, OH) and moved to 3/16 tubing on shurflos after 3 seasons. My terrain in here is optimum for 3/16 (nice steep hillside) and I would never go back to buckets. I have more than doubled my yield per tap and frankly find it easier to put up the tubing, clean it, take it down, and store it than buckets (if you do it right), especially on my hilly terrain.

Lots of great info on here about tubing setups and I have a handful of videos on installation, vacuum setups, cleaning, etc on YouTube
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6CwcmcTEWYy6kaduFBtcMtvK3Z1y9iRp&si=QvYuN6t_L0m8hdyw

Best of luck on your season!

[ScottT]

We have 10 - 15 trees on a steep slope that we are setting up for tubing. 5/16th drops to a 3/16th main line.

There are other trees we'd like to set up on lines in another part of our field, but the slope isn't that steep. Wondering how much of a slope we really need for 3/16th lines, or if there is an economical option for a solar pump system.

We'd like to get away from buckets as much as we can as well.

[ebliese]

My understanding is as follows: for every 10 feet of elevation you will get 8.83" Hg (Mercury). Maximum vacuum is 29.9" Hg. 20 feet from the top to the bottom of the line is enough to create 17.7" Hg. A tap in the middle of the line with only 10 feet of drop below it will only pull a maximum vacuum of 8.8" Hg.

This info is all from a presentation by Derek Ross; CDL Michigan, based on studies by Tim Wilmot from the University of Vermont.

I don't run 3/16s but have been intrigued by the product. Maybe at some point in the future. Hope this info helps some, ScottT.

[ScottT]

This helps a lot. I appreciate it! Gives me a good place to start planning the other areas of the property.

[Pdiamond]

Scott - I have an area very similar to this, (10-15 trees minimal slope). I ran it in 3/16 tubing, and it works out just fine for me. All I did was create a little more slope by starting higher on the upper end tree. At the bottom I left about a 10foot length of the 3/16 tubing to go into my barrel. On a big run day those few taps may fill that 55-gallon barrel.

[madmaples]

thanks for everyone's insights!
I've had about 20 taps in the past, but I plan on increasing to about 50 taps this year. One of my challenges is that many of my maples are pretty spread out. So I'm wondering whether it makes sense to only put up tubing/vacuum for trees that are close together. I suspect at some point the benefit of tubing would diminish if I have 200ft+ between some of my trees.

I have one maple grove where I have about 12-15 trees all next to each other, here it would probably be easy and economical to put up tubing, but these are also the easy trees to collect from since I can just pull up with my tractor in one place and dump all the buckets without travelling far.


Lots of great info on here about tubing setups and I have a handful of videos on installation, vacuum setups, cleaning, etc on YouTube
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6CwcmcTEWYy6kaduFBtcMtvK3Z1y9iRp&si=QvYuN6t_L0m8hdyw

Best of luck on your season!
Thanks DRoseum, I've watched a few of your video, great content!

[madmaples]

Alright, quick update, given that it's gotten quite cold again around here and it looks like we have at least another week or two before the next run, I decided to dive in head first and strung up three 3/16th lines today (still needs tees/droplines/etc) and started building a shurflo vacuum system similar to what DRoseum has shown on youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqPVJtPYBlo).

I also built a mini-version of the clear PVC manifold (https://www.facebook.com/MountainMapleFarm/videos/876442146780203/?mibextid=oFDknk&rdid=I0BSMOxWLbih1R5H#) that someone shared from Mountain Maple's Facebook, so now the pressure is on to make sure I finish it all and work out the kinks before the next run!

https://imgur.com/a/DpLXHVo I'm getting about 15inhg, I need to chase down a leak somewhere right at the pump.

so in conclusion, looks like I'm going from 20 to ~80 taps this year! :D

[maple flats]

On a sureflow or any diaphragm pump you will do best if you have a recirculation line from the line at the pump outlet to just before the lines bringing sap to the pump. that line then should have a needle valve or even a conventional ball valve to regulate the flow, it only needs to get a little to keep the diaphragm and internal check valves wet.
To answer the question of how much it helps, if you keep the system tight (no leaks) you can get 2-3x as much sap. However, diaphragm pumps don't do well fighting leaks, even micro leaks.
Keep it fun

[madmaples]

On a sureflow or any diaphragm pump you will do best if you have a recirculation line from the line at the pump outlet to just before the lines bringing sap to the pump. that line then should have a needle valve or even a conventional ball valve to regulate the flow, it only needs to get a little to keep the diaphragm and internal check valves wet.
To answer the question of how much it helps, if you keep the system tight (no leaks) you can get 2-3x as much sap. However, diaphragm pumps don't do well fighting leaks, even micro leaks.
Keep it fun

Wow, that made a huge difference! I just experimented with a ball valve to add just a bit of water into the line on the vacuum side and was holding steady at 26inhg! That's great! Thanks for the tip!