Ok onto the next step, attempting to plan a line set up

[ProBoot]

In Ontario Canada.

So my property is about 5 acres of mostly thinned out large aged sugar maples(I measured avg of 3.5% sugar last season over 350gal sap)

My guess is that my property has a natural slop of about 30% over the 500' of available forest coverage from the sugar shack away and down a hill to where our Barn is.


There are 3 "paths" that are available with maples lining each and approximately 300-400 maples in total on the property.

I'd like to run 2 lines this year with 2 collection points where I'll physically collect and move sap to storage at the sugar shack(basically move from bottom of hill to top)

If I planned to run 100 taps, basically 50 on each "line" what size line should I run? 5/16 or 3/16's?

And plan on running 3/16" taps I think with laterals into the main line.

I can totally picture it in my head but unsure if what I have makes sense.

for context, I only started last year on 48 buckets, produced 30l syrup that was exceptional for what my expectations were.

If I did the above I would have ability to expand in the following years to add more taps/line etc.


Thoughts?

[littleTapper]

I'd suggest 3/16" - 25-30 taps per line right to your collection point(s). No mainline needed. You'll want 30' of drop after the last tap to develop max natural vacuum. Expand as needed. You may double sap production over buckets, so keep that in mind when planning as it sounds like you have a lot of potential there.

[DRoseum]

Agree with littletapper's recommendation.

[ProBoot]

ok, that last drop will be difficult since the last 3 taps would be really close to the collection point I was planning and all the taps would be along the line rather then at one end and then collection at another.

I'm guessing with only about a 10' drop at the last tap to the collection point on the line the natural vacuum would be very very low and might stall everything?

[littleTapper]

ok, that last drop will be difficult since the last 3 taps would be really close to the collection point I was planning and all the taps would be along the line rather then at one end and then collection at another.

I'm guessing with only about a 10' drop at the last tap to the collection point on the line the natural vacuum would be very very low and might stall everything?

You'll still get vac, nearly an inch per foot or something like that. My downhill 3/16 doesn't have much drop after the last taps and gush. You could keep those lowest taps separate to maximize yield on the trees up the slope.

[Pdiamond]

You might want to think about running 5/16 drops to the 3/16 lines.

[DRoseum]

Those last 3 trees won't have much negative effect on the taps above and you will still get some natural vacuum on them.

You can do 5/16 drops to prevent back washing into taphole when things start to freeze, however that will require 2 tools. In stead you could use 3/16 drops with CV spouts or CV stubby. Then you only have 1 tool, 1 size tubing etc.

I use CVs, replace them yearly, and have had great success with them. one advantage of CVs over the 5/16 method is it opens up a broader tapping band (you can tap below the lateral with CVs and won't get back flushing). I run a shurflo on my 3/16 lines amd am pulling 26-28 in-hg at the pump and near full vacuum higher up on each tap.

[Sinoed09]

Where are you in Ontario? Some of the counties (Grey Bruce & Simcoe for sure) have public GIS websites where you can take a look at your lot, geography, aerial photos etc. You can add elevation contours as well which will tell you how much drop you have for planning. I’m setting up my runs now too (north of Owen Sound) and it came down to a trade off of natural vacuum vs. possible plugs on 3/16” or inability to get a good vacuum but fewer plugs or issues on 5/16”. From what I’ve read ideal number of taps is 25-30 on 3/16” line with a max number of 35. On 5/16” ideal is 35-40 with a max of 50. I did read that maxing a 5/16” line with 50 taps can get it to produce some natural vacuum and it thaws faster when the sun hits it to get sap moving. If you only wanted to run two lines you’d need to use 5/16 direct to your collection point and that line would be fully used. You might not be able to get as much sap during full run days but you’d likely have some vacuum to compensate.

To expand with more taps later, you could add more individual lines to your bucket or tie those lines into a mainline. So you could put in mainline this year but you don’t necessarily have to do that until you go over current capacity. I just went through this same dilemma and nearly bought mainline but ended up running individual lines. I didn’t save any money because I used a lot more tubing and it was much more work running 4 lines instead of 1. However, if something goes wrong or a squirrel chews a tube 3/4 of my system will still be up and running until it’s fixed. I can also use natural vacuum to my advantage with smaller line. If your trees are remote or hard to get to the maintenance is something to think about.

[littleTapper]

You might want to think about running 5/16 drops to the 3/16 lines.

I do that with 5/16 CVs. Seems to work nicely. Good point above on being able to tap below the lateral. One of my best years (31 gallons/tap) was a below the lateral year.

I see that some tools are specific for 3/16 and 5/16. My homemade ones seem to work on both just fine. One can shim a 5/16 tool on 3/16 line with a split piece of 5/16 tube or whatever.

[ProBoot]

So.....

What's a "CV"?

[littleTapper]

So.....

What's a "CV"?

check valve spile https://us.h2oinnovation.net/us/chalumeau-clair-check-valve-de-leader-pour-tubulure-3-16-5-16-clair-4112.html

prevents backflow into the tree which results in less microbial activity and the tap has a longer duration of productivity.

[ProBoot]

Ok, I was planning on running the simple taps for my setup this year, they are like $25/100 so figure can't go wrong with that and a 500' roll of tubing.

Do I really need the special tool for installing the lines? or can I get away with basic hand tools? I have the special drill bit and will need to get the proper size one for the new taps as they will be smaller.

[DrTimPerkins]

I'm guessing with only about a 10' drop at the last tap to the collection point on the line the natural vacuum would be very very low and might stall everything?

https://mapleresearch.org/pub/slope2018-2/

[Sinoed09]

Ok, I was planning on running the simple taps for my setup this year, they are like $25/100 so figure can't go wrong with that and a 500' roll of tubing.

Do I really need the special tool for installing the lines? or can I get away with basic hand tools? I have the special drill bit and will need to get the proper size one for the new taps as they will be smaller.

You don’t *really* need the tools for pushing on the fittings but unless you have really strong hands it’s hard to do properly. You can’t pre-install the taps inside either so you have to do it outside when it’s cold which makes the tubing rigid and hard to use. I tried doing it without the fitting tool using a thermos of hot water to warm the tubing the first time I ran a couple taps and it was an exercise in frustration that had me cursing my syrup plans. It’s very hard to push those fittings on by hand. If you only had a couple taps i’d say give it a shot but if you’re planning on a 100 of them - just get the tool because it will pay for itself.

That said, if you take a look at the fitting tool it’s a tubing clamp welded onto a set of vice grips and a small u shaped bracket welded onto a pair of side cutters. To be honest, I paid for the tool and it’s low quality - I wasn’t super impressed with it at all but it works. If you don’t want to buy one you might be able to make something comparable for much less. There are a couple plans for DIY tools and you have a couple months before the sap runs.

[Pdiamond]

You can always check the mapletrader facebook page for used tools if you want to go that route but be quick they sell fast. Another option is Maple Tech Tools these would be new, and their prices are reasonable.

[ProBoot]

So I've moved ahead with lines plan,

I have a bit of slope in my property, not a lot, maybe about 20feet total drop from the first trees to the final spot for collection, total distance about 100-150'
I am hoping to run 3-4 lines in this span with about 25-30 taps on each with the final few run directly from the trees to the collection point which is some 55 gallon barrels(4)

My plan is to then transport the sap in more barrels to the main sugar shack for storage in the main tanks after RO-ing.

I'm hoping this increases my yield over 48 buckets last year.....

[4 Paws Sugar Shack]

ProBoot at 100' your slope is at 2% and at 150' you will go down to 1.33% all of which can be addressed in your tubing setup to create a strong gradient. My first question is are you purposively using 3/16 for this operation on natural gravity or will there be a shurflo with a manifold pulling on the lines? To say the least @ 1% water barely run and at 2% its a steady trickle. So with line friction added onto the equation you may only get 10-15In at max flow if you increase to 4% you could see 20in at the top tap. 5% is optimal for 3/16 in my opinion and everything I have read and tested myself

[ProBoot]

It will all be just gravity, no money for sureflow systems or other items now. My budget for Sugaring items is maxed this year.

3/16" since I found the new line cheap and there wasn't much of a benefit for what I wanted to do to go any larger. I had thought about doing 3/16" into 5"16" but was warned against it as the flow will create a natural vacuum with the grade.

Its my first year on line and I haven't even set anything up yet for the lines at all, like it's all just rolled up in my sugar shack.

[ScottT]

What type of spouts are you using? We set up a 3/16 mainline with 5/16 drop lines. All on a steep hill, hoping for natural vacuum, or gravity at least. We used check valve spouts (with the little ball). Now I'm second guessing, thinking I shouldn't have used them since we may not achieve natural vacuum.

[BAP]

What type of spouts are you using? We set up a 3/16 mainline with 5/16 drop lines. All on a steep hill, hoping for natural vacuum, or gravity at least. We used check valve spouts (with the little ball). Now I'm second guessing, thinking I shouldn't have used them since we may not achieve natural vacuum.
You will be fine with the check valve spouts. If you have a decent to steep slope and using 3/16” tubing, then you will get a lot of natural vacuum.

[ProBoot]

I'm planning on using just regular normal every day $24/100 plastic taps.
Non check valve ones.

[ScottT]

You will be fine with the check valve spouts. If you have a decent to steep slope and using 3/16” tubing, then you will get a lot of natural vacuum.

Oh it's pretty steep. One of the reasons we ran tubing. Kept slipping on the hill with our buckets. Thank you.

[BAP]

Oh it's pretty steep. One of the reasons we ran tubing. Kept slipping on the hill with our buckets. Thank you.
You should get a lot of vacuum with tight lines when it’s running good.