Gravity set-up help

[Sinoed09]

Looking for some wisdom getting my lines set up for the spring. I experimented with one 3/16” line and a dozen taps a couple years ago, now I’m looking to expand to maybe 150 taps. I have a double row of sugar maples in between two farm fields. I don’t have equipment to plow out the 4’ of snow that ends up in the field to easily cross it and collect sap in the spring so I’d like to get the sap to the house via gravity. The trees sit on top of the Niagara escarpment which has a moderate drop of about 15’ over a length of 750’ sloping away from the crest of the ridge. Once you get past the top of the ridge, there is a huge drop of over 75’ down to the house and it’s roughly the same distance of 750’. Once it gets over the ridge it’s good - the trick is getting it there. I tried to upload a sketch but MT doesn’t seem to like it. So picture a row of trees lining the side of a field up to the edge of a sharp drop.

So my plan right now is to use 3/16” from the trees and laterals then run a couple 5/16” lines or maybe a 1/2” line down the hill to the house. I’d like to be able to attach the 1/2” right at the crest but I don’t think that will work? Do I have to run everything to the low spot farthest from the ridge and then try to run it back over the edge with the larger main? The drop over the edge is 5x greater than the slope of the field so I think it will work but I’m not entirely sure. This is the first time setting this run up. Do you think I’d need a pump at all?

Any help would be great. 😊

[maple flats]

Running that might work, but running 3/1 all the way would work positively, besides, gravity on that drop will give you the highest possible vacuum, based on your elevation and the barometric pressure. Run up to 30-35 max taps on each 3/16 line.
If you were to go to 5/16 or 1/2" the gravity will not generate any vcuum unless the tubeing is completely full. Getting either completely full is nearly impossible because of the gases that come out of the tree along with the sap.
On 3/16 the sap doesn't pass the gases thus gravity then generates a naturl vacuum.
Using 3/16 however requires you to watch for plugged fittings, especially in yrs 2 and beyond. however they can also happen in yr 1. Thus you will need to get across the field to walk the lines to be sure you don't have plugged fittings. On 3/16 fittings the holes at the barbed fittings are real small, thus the risk of plugging.
That being said, I do well using 3/16 laterals. I use 5/16 taps and drop lines then attach to the lateral using a 5/16 x 5/16 x 3/16 tee. I walk the lines every day and carry my repair tools, cutters and spare tees to replace any plugged tees.

[Sinoed09]

I didn’t think about running multiple 3/16 lines this time but the test line I originally ran was a 3/16 and the sap was just pouring out of it. The drop really helped with great natural vacuum, I thought I’d get the same with 5/16 but maybe not. You mentioned that you can’t get the lines completely full with 5/16” to generate vacuum which I think would mean I can’t try attaching the larger line at the crest of the ridge because there will be no vacuum to draw the sap from the low end - it would only run when the taps are running (I think).

I don’t mind walking across the field but it wouldn’t be a pleasant stroll with the amount of snow we get so I’m not sure daily is a good plan. Snow equipment or maybe an ATV might be needed if I decide to expand or keep doing it, these trees are the easy ones. I know for sure that I have to get the lines that run down the escarpment set up now although I could do the trees later. When I checked things after the snow melted last time I was shocked I didn’t break a leg or get hurt, the snow hid huge boulders, drops and a few large crevasse. I just got a large cement pad cleared off so now I have a place to set something up for boiling which is also good. Doing sap in the kitchen last time wasn’t a good plan. lol.

[littleTapper]

pt 1 above, yes, that's correct.

Your chances of plugging are probably early or late in the season. Early - chips from drilling. Late - snot from microbial growth. That said, some people (myself included; but only small amount of taps) haven't had any issues with 3/16 Ts plugging. I think if you can get all those hooked up and going, you'd be happy with the amount of sap and if one or two plug up, no biggy.

Sounds like really good snowshoes may be a nice investment too :)

[Sinoed09]

Well, I spent the afternoon climbing up and down the escarpment. I didn’t buy mainline but maybe I should have, right now I’ve got 4 lines set up to cover the treacherous part and handle the downhill run. Two of the lines are 5/16” and two of them are 3/16” so that should give me enough capacity for around 170 ish taps. It will also give me a good idea of how well the 5/16” will work and if I can get some vacuum or not. I might have to put a pump on the 5/16” if it’s not doing well but I guess I’ll see how it goes. I’m going to use the 3/16” lines for the trees farthest from the edge since they’re likely to give me the best natural vacuum and have to draw the farthest distance. I will admit that climbing up and down that hill wrestling tubing had me questioning my sanity though.

I bundled the lines together and I’m going to go back and string it tight with some wire, there are quite a few sags right now which won’t get any better with full lines. I was pretty happy with things, maybe a bit tired but just kept echoing “all that will be left are the trees”. So I got those lines tidied up and then stood at the end of the row of trees wondering again if I’m completely crazy. Like, the big row of trees seems like a lot. I’ve only done a couple taps before so this will be a major upgrade. When I was buying tubing the guy at the CDL store said he’d been working with someone in the county who had 18,000 taps set up - I can’t even imagine that.

One more simple question from me - what are you guys using to tie up lines? I’ve seen quite a few videos where you just stretch the tubing and zigzag between trees to keep it tight, do you ever secure it to a tree? If you attach it to the tree what are you using? Wire? The end hook fittings? A nail & a loop of some kind?

[littleTapper]

End of line hook at the start, zigag and pull tight. At the bottom I put the tubing through the middle of a foot or so of hollow core poly rope (finger trap; 1/4" rope for 3/16" lines and 3/8" rope for 5/16" lines) and then pull that tight with a trucker's hitch. If needed, side tie middle of the lines (two end hooks on a piece of 3/16 tubing works great to hold it sideways).

[DRoseum]

Use an end line tee and hook to terminate the line at the top around the tree with your last tap. I prefer (and suggest) using a plugged end tee for the last tap so sap isn't in the tube that loops around the tree (that loop is most prone to squirrel and fisher chews - and you will loose all vacuum if you use a normal tee and it gets chewed).

https://bascommaple.com/products/iptp316b?_pos=6&_sid=8d84d624d&_ss=r

https://bascommaple.com/products/ipelh316?_pos=11&_sid=d295e68d8&_ss=r

Start at the top and pull your line tight zig-zagging around trees. You can temporarily use a ratchet strap to hug it to the side of a tree while you continue to work your way down (in case you slip and loose tension this prevents starting all over). After making sure they are tight, and all running downhill, I mark the side of each tree the tubing runs on with a small dot of green spray paint. Helps me member the routes and heights required to always keep downhill pitch.

At the bottom, use a woven/braided hollow core rope and slide it over the tubing for a few feet like a finger trap. Push end of tubing through side of rope and then pull the rope and tie it to something at the bottom near your tank.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-4-in-x-100-ft-Polypropylene-Hollow-Braid-Rope-Yellow-72756/206094294?g_store=4116&source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&gStoreCode=4116&gQT=1&adobe_mc=TS%3D1732200060%7CMCMID%3D454710374202112 27055545990074329052858%7CMCORGID%3DF6421253512D2C 100A490D45%40AdobeOrg&mboxSession=419f8469-7755-41d9-be2d-d53f2247ccf5

Lastly, check out the videos I made about how to make a simple/cheap tubing spooler to help install, remove, and rehang your tubing. I have some 3/16 lines that are over 1100 feet long (with 100 ft drop across a ~350 ft distance), and I can easily set up all 7 lines (132 taps) each year in a single day (including replacing all spouts).

https://youtu.be/jYkZl7bb8jY?si=pmTdu8sBjpcFhuYl
https://youtu.be/bmco0vR-Cck?si=05bzurr_HLkSzZ5D
https://youtu.be/I9ZoGFDqLqE?si=g1qj2OjknVlWtT2K

[Sinoed09]

Thanks for these tips. After my last post, I spent a day tightening up the bundle of lines down the escarpment. I used my truck to pull up the slack at the top and used zip ties and rolls of wire used for the bottom of chainlink fencing to wrap the bundle going down the hill. I have an 18V Makita chainsaw which also came in handy to convert scrub bushes to poles. A few side ties and lots of pulling got it relatively flat. Well, at least better than the u-shaped bowls I had bouncing from tie to tie. Fingers crossed this work pays off and it stays in place until the sugar season.

When I got to the edge of the forest the next part was a bit painful. The part of the forest I have to cross is relatively young, lots of small saplings, scrub and shrubbery to fight through but I managed to work my way down. I think I could probably pick a better route, that might be an upgrade next year by clearing it as I go.

@DRoseum I did see the short video of you creating the spool with the buckets - great idea honestly. I have cows on my land so either I fence off the trees or pick up the taps in the spring. Picking up the taps might be the easiest thing to do. Probably a lot less work and money than trying to pound in posts and run wire too.

The last couple days were spent putting up an 8x12 shed for boiling. No evaporator yet but I’ve got lines and a protected place out if the snow so things are looking up. ��

[Ivyacres]

I wouldn't run over 30 taps on any 3/16 line if the trees are mature. The sap can back up and not draw well. If you have 75 ft of drop in the end of your line it will produce enough vac to pull your sap anywhere you want it to go. I haven't seen 5/16 create vac needed to pull so you may need to get a sureflo on the end of those. Best of luck

[ADK_XJ]

I’ve read (in Maple News) that Tim Wilmot did do runs of 30 to even 50 taps on 3/16 but that the concern was more about the impact of leaks on such a large line. I think you could get away with if you’re diligent about checking for leaks and especially if you added a pump to assist with the gravity flow.

Either way, we have done a very similar setup to what you are describing and I decided to stick to 20-25 taps per line mostly for “route planning” which has worked very well for us. We added a third line with another 25 on a set of very steep ridges, with the two sets coming together via a Y fitting. I know this frowned upon but it works very, very well and saved a ton of tubing. The connection point is above our longest run (and drop) of straight tubing (no taps) to the collection tank.

That’s all to say, I’ve found the 3/16 very easy to work with and, if you enjoy tinkering, it’s very accessible to amateurs doing some trial and error work season to season.

This year, I am adding a ShurFlo pump at the bottom of our run powered by a Harbor Freight solar array and battery. It’s fun to add bit by bit!