Hello from southern quebec. Questions on planting :)

[Moparguy55]

Hello all glad to have found this forum :)

My wife and kids bought a house with 20 acres of cultivated land. Had corn and soya for past 25 years.

Was hoping to land a place with maples but nope.

My question is id like to plant 200ish trees to hopefully tap for retirement or sooner haha.(44 now) get them on vaccum



Some spots are wet. There is a stream that runs down 1 side. I was thinking of planting silver and reds. More leaning twoards red but red silvers grow faster in good soil?

Would like to plant 100 this fall. What would you guys recommend? Also quitr a few deer in area. I assume all will need to be inside a 5-6foot fence?

Thanks!

[johnallin]

Unless you're planning on hauling sap at 94 yrs old, I'd suggest looking for another piece of property.

[RC Maple]

Also quitr a few deer in area. I assume all will need to be inside a 5-6foot fence?

I planted some sugar maples 10 years ago and did some again this year. No need for a fence, but a 4 foot tree shelter is not tall enough to protect them. I had to extend my original four ft shelters to keep the deer off. The trees I planted this year I used 5 footers. I found some potted native sugar maples at a local nursery and planted 10 last fall and planted 10 bare root sugar maples this spring. I'm just doing it because that's what I do. I'll never get sap from them - unless I want to be hauling sap at 94 years old.:cool:

[Andy VT]

I think I'd approach it this way:
Owning a sugarbush is both renewing the maple resource for future generations (and to some extent, if you live long enough, you'll reap some of that yourself too), and it is also enjoying the maple resource that already exists.
In your case, if it were me, I'd also do both, but on separate properties.
On your land, focus on turning it into the best maple resource it can be. Maybe you'll get to actually tap it someday, maybe not, but someone can, and if you don't, the improved land can help fund your late-stage retirement by selling it.
For your immediate maple fix, find someone who will let you tap their trees.

On that philosophy, I'd only plant silver maples as the primary maple resource if that is in fact the best long-term choice depending on your soil. Also, think about diversity... a mono-culture might not be good. This might include a diversity of maple types but also probably something other than maple. Maybe for the non maples you'd think about timber value, or maybe something non maple that can also be tapped.

At 44, you still could end up tapping trees you plant. I'm not sure why people are saying 94... 44 plus 40 is 84. But that's from seed in the shady woods. A sapling planted with plenty of sun, even if a sugar maple, could be ready to tap much sooner. There are definitely a lot of sugarmakers in their 70's.

Now as far as specifics, I am not your guy! I'd love to hear more expert opinions on turning fields into sugarbush! I'm dreamed of it too. Would be a fun hobby, and could pay even if you never tap. Just sell to someone younger someday, and then give the money to your nursing home for some extra diaper changes! Those are not cheap you know!

[maple flats]

Based on my experience on Sugars, reds and silvers I'd encourage you to plant mostly reds, maybe some sugars on drier land. Silvers seem to yield the least sap unless you have good vacuum. On decent land you should be able to tap the sugars at about 30 yrs age. The reds maybe at 25 yrs. Don't try to exclude other native trees, a mono culture is inviting all sorts of maple pests and diseases. Try to allow other species so the maple is only about 50-60% of the varieties. In most cases, if you're in a decent area in Canada the other varieties will grow on their own, just don't allow then to crowd the maples.

[maple flats]

If the deer can reach the trees, they will eat the buds. Sometimes that kills a tree, but if protected usually not. You say southern Quebec, are you close to Vt of NH?

[Moparguy55]

If the deer can reach the trees, they will eat the buds. Sometimes that kills a tree, but if protected usually not. You say southern Quebec, are you close to Vt of NH?

Thanks for the response. I am 15-20 mins from newport vermont.

We are thinking on planting some dwarf apple trees aswell. Was thinking in a different area though.

[Andy VT]

By the way, I'm only a few years older than you, so I intend to check this thread every 5 years for the next 50 years (yep, gonna live that long!) and can't wait to start hearing about sap runs and sugar content and bad niter years and the whole bit!

[Moparguy55]

By the way, I'm only a few years older than you, so I intend to check this thread every 5 years for the next 50 years (yep, gonna live that long!) and can't wait to start hearing about sap runs and sugar content and bad niter years and the whole bit!

I have read that silvers and reds like wet lands. Should i be going a step further and have soil samples done to determine which maple would be best ?

[maple flats]

You say some areas are wet, those areas might be best planted to silver maples, but if 2' or more above where there is normally standing water after a heavy rain, or in the spring reds usually do well. Any sugars should be only on the driest, best drained areas.
I my bush, which is all natural growth, planted by nature, I have some silvers in the wettest spots, often on little knolls, then higher up, that 2' roughly, the reds start and about half of my maples are reds, then on the highest spots is where my sugar maples are, at maybe 4' or more above typically where standing water might be, and the 4' is pushing it, most sugars are at 8' or more above the wetter areas. I however don't as such have any hills (thus I'm known as maple flats.) I haven't gotten exact elevation readings, but my guess is that my highest portion of my bush is between 8-10' higher than the wettest. That's all in a 15 acre area.
When a forester helped me make up a forest stewardship plan he labeled my land as undulating lake bottom. After the last ice age what is now Oneida Lake (the thumb of the finger lakes in NYS) which is about 6 miles from my land to the north west. Apparently back then Oneida lake was several times larger until erosion formed the creeks and rivers to carry the water to Lake Ontario. My land was near the shoreline. My home is another 2 miles as the crow flies to the south west, and it was likely where the shoreline was. Just 50' from our home the hills climb a few hundred feet, at a 15-20% incline. My home isw about 12' higher than the median elevation of my sugarhouse property.

[Moparguy55]

You say some areas are wet, those areas might be best planted to silver maples, but if 2' or more above where there is normally standing water after a heavy rain, or in the spring reds usually do well. Any sugars should be only on the driest, best drained areas.
I my bush, which is all natural growth, planted by nature, I have some silvers in the wettest spots, often on little knolls, then higher up, that 2' roughly, the reds start and about half of my maples are reds, then on the highest spots is where my sugar maples are, at maybe 4' or more above typically where standing water might be, and the 4' is pushing it, most sugars are at 8' or more above the wetter areas. I however don't as such have any hills (thus I'm known as maple flats.) I haven't gotten exact elevation readings, but my guess is that my highest portion of my bush is between 8-10' higher than the wettest. That's all in a 15 acre area.
When a forester helped me make up a forest stewardship plan he labeled my land as undulating lake bottom. After the last ice age what is now Oneida Lake (the thumb of the finger lakes in NYS) which is about 6 miles from my land to the north west. Apparently back then Oneida lake was several times larger until erosion formed the creeks and rivers to carry the water to Lake Ontario. My land was near the shoreline. My home is another 2 miles as the crow flies to the south west, and it was likely where the shoreline was. Just 50' from our home the hills climb a few hundred feet, at a 15-20% incline. My home isw about 12' higher than the median elevation of my sugarhouse property.

I noticed today beside the stream on one side of the house out about 100 feet it is really swampy and there is a red maple with about 6 trunks growing. Each trunk probably 8 inchs across and id say it must be 40 feet high.

Visiting my sister yesterday they have a big sugar maple that is close to a power line and sadly rotten that they are having take down. To my suprise there is atleast 50 or more 2-4 ft saplings all around. So looks like i will take a stab at transplanting them to my driest spots. Id love to wait till fall to move them while dorment but the tree service guy is coming within a couple weeks. And they would all die anyway.

From what i read duting a transplant no fertilizer (manure/lime) untill year two?

[maple flats]

I have one property line that a neighbor planted in reds and sugars back about 1978-1984. Most of those trees are now tapable, the soil was fairly furtle but I don't think they ever fertilized those trees. Most are from 10"-15" now at 4' off the ground.