I Give up on Hydrometers... Better options?

[USinCA]

Seems that I've somehow ruined a hydrometer and a hydrotherm now. I bought a hydrometer in 2019, worked well until I dropped it in the cup a little hard and bumped the scale. My last batch of 2020 came out way too thick and crystallized - on the plus side the crystals are a good maple rock candy if you can free them from the jar.
Since I don't like guessing, I bought a hydrotherm last year, and it worked fantastic all year, really consistent density. Since I bumped the first hydrometer and ruined it, I treated this one like a faberge egg, I know I haven't bumped or dropped it.

First batch of this year - I finish on propane in a brewers kettle with a calibrated CDL syrup thermometer installed in it. I calibrate in a boiling kettle right before I finish. I also check boiling temp with a digital thermometer. It was windy and cold so I was in a bit of a rush to finish, and probably too rushed reading the hydrotherm, but by the time it reached the proper density, my syrup thermometer was reading 10* above boiling. We bottled at that density, and it is definitely too thick

Last night - second batch, and a nice warm calm night so I wasn't in a rush reading the hydrotherm (made sure it was up to temp). Boiled syrup to 9* above, preheated the hydrotherm and cup in the boiling syrup, and the mercury of the hydrotherm is still well below the syrup... Density looked right, felt right when cooled, it sheeted and hung on the spoon, so I bottled it...
Is there some way to have a hydrometer calibrated? I'm pretty frustrated having a $50 tool only last a year...
Maybe I should switch to a refractometer?

[fireant911]

I am still very new to syruping so not too much experience to share... I did this with my wife's parents who showed me the ropes. Previously, they used a hydrometer and were always successful in making maple syrup. The hydrometer is well-proven yet I never warmed up this this method. For the next two years, I introduced my arsenal of three refractometers to the process - one is a low range that is used exclusively for testing the concentrate from the RO machine. The second refractometer is used while we are boiling on the evaporater. A third refractometer is introduced while the final boiling is being done inside. Both the second and third refractometers are used as a rough check while performing this final boil (as their scales are different). The first year my in-laws were hesitant to trust these refractometers and somewhat relunctantly went along yet continued using the hydrometer as well. The following year, the hydrometer never came out of the cabinet as they had mastered using the hydrometer AND trusted the results.

Interestingly, the final syrup had a thicker consistency when using the refractometers rather than the hydrometer. I posit that they always erred on the safe side and pulled it off when it was just approaching 66 Brix OR the hydrometer was no longer in proper calibration??? Either way, the refractometers are the go-to tools for us!

[berkshires]

Two thoughts:

1 - I've found that if the syrup in the steel hydrometer cup gets too hot, like if it's submerged in hard boiling syrup, it starts to drop (give a lower reading). My guess is that this is due to bubbles of gas forming in the syrup in the steel tube as it approaches boiling, lowering the overall density.

2 - I've never used a hydrotherm, but I just found the following online: "Keep the hydrotherm in an upright position to prevent the red column from separating, when not in use". Here's a link: https://www.cdlinc.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/use-a-hydrotherm.pdf. I don't know what happens if it "separates", or if this permanently ruins the operation of the hydrotherm. Maybe someone else with more experience using one can chime in.

Good luck!

Gabe O

[judgejp]

I use a Milwaukee Model MA871 refractometer that works well. initial cost high ($150) but very consistent and hard to break unlike hydrometers ( I've broken every one I've owned.)
Pat

[maple flats]

Just be more careful, I've made syrup since 2003 and always used a hydrometer. When you first get a new hydrometer, before first use, put the hydrometer in the box it came in, hold the hydrometer tight to the end of the box and carefully mark the red line position on the box, (or better yet buy a "gold hydrometer" by Smoky Lake and it has the line on both the paper inside and on the glass. That way, if the hydrometer ever gets dropped too hard into the hydrometer cup and the paper slides, you can re-align it. Also, I only broke one, when it fell on the concrete floor. Make note, I also never have just 1, I bought one to use and a spare. I've had the same spare over 10 years. It's not that I'm any better than you, likely just more careful. great tool too, is to have a Murphy Cup for your hydrometer cup, yes, it's costly, but not as costly as ruining batch after batch of syrup. To use it, fill with the syrup being tested, at any temperature, watch the gauge. Once it stops moving put the clean hydrometer in the cup. Both should read the same. The gauge on the Murphy cup is really a thermometer, but it's marked not with temperature but in what the hydrometer should read at whatever temperature the syru in the cup is. No guesswork.
Before the Murphy Cup used to use an Accu cup, similar, except the gauge gave you the temperature and then you used a chart to find the wanted hydrometer reading, but it only had some temperatures in the chart, you had to guesstimate for a reading between 2 temperatures in the chart. The Murphy cup removed that process.
Try again, buy 2 and be extremely careful using the hydrometer. If done right there will be no bad batches. One more thing, temperature boiling isnot an easy read, as the air pressure changes so does the desired boiling temp, that's why you use a Murphy Cup.

[tgormley358]

Two big thumbs up for the Murphy cup, it’s easy and quick to use and get perfect density consistently.

[Pdiamond]

I'll second that Dave. The Murphy Cup and Gold Hydrometer work great together and you will always get perfect brix syrup.

[TapTapTap]

I use two hydrometers during a boil and switch between them. They are kept in a sampling cup containing hot water and resting in the float box to keep hot. The sampling cup for testing is resting in the other float box to stay hot too. I test frequently. I occasionally use a thermometer and check temperature and it's always in been in the correct range for syrup coming off the draw.

I've only ever broken one,.many years ago.

I also use a refractometer for testing the batch in the syrup tank prior to adding DE and filtering.

BTW, I've been away from mapletrader posting since I haven't been able to view, much less post due to the https issue and other problems on the site. If I were an advertiser on the site I would be withholding payment until everything is fixed! I'm still having problems including viewing the VT forum.

Ken

[maple flats]

Check with Peter Gregg, the site owner. The issue might all be on your end, I get everything perfectly. There was some sort of an issue but that was fixed as far as I can tell.

[berkshires]

Check with Gregg, the site owner. The issue might all be on your end, I get everything perfectly. There was some sort of an issue but that was fixed as far as I can tell.

It's still not fixed, it just renders correctly on some browsers. See the "not secure" in the header, and no "https"? That means they still haven't fixed their issue with authentication. It still won't render correctly on my phone, but fortunately it's okay on my browser.

GO

[BAP]

Check with Gregg, the site owner. The issue might all be on your end, I get everything perfectly. There was some sort of an issue but that was fixed as far as I can tell.
But you are a moderator so things are probably set up differently for your account than the average person using the Trader. It still really stinks that nobody can post pictures anymore and Gregg doesn’t seem to address that issue even though people complain.

[TapTapTap]

Check with Gregg, the site owner. The issue might all be on your end, I get everything perfectly. There was some sort of an issue but that was fixed as far as I can tell.

If the issue is at my end then I must be like hundreds of other users that can't post anymore. I've tried across 3 different devices and I have issues with them all. I used my smartphone to post earlier this week and I can no longer login on that device. Right now, I'm using my office desktop which will only allow me to view in safemode (which sucks). My Surface will also only allow me to view in safemode. None of the devices allow me to see Vermont Forum posts in the past month. I also tried taptalk the forum app but I didn't find mapletrader on the app.

All I can say is that I've mostly given up on the forum.

My last resort is to start complaining to the advertisers.

Ken

[mainebackswoodssyrup]

That's too bad to hear Ken's and others' experiences, but probably explains why we have lost a lot of good traders on here. Hard enough to find time and post to help others, let alone battle erratic tech issues. This website/forum platform is outdated in terms of many things and like others, it will probably be the demise of it unless some effort is put into to keeping it updated and running properly.

[DrTimPerkins]

Hydrometers are the standard in the maple industry, mainly because they're relatively inexpensive and have been around for a really long time. Used properly they'll give good results. Refractometers (at least the digital kind) are more available nowadays, but still costly.

With either instrument, keeping them calibrated and knowing how to use them properly is key. Just because a digital refractometer spits out a number to the nearest tenth doesn't mean it is right. Same goes for digital thermometers. A good glass or dial thermometer can be much more accurate than a digital thermocouple thermometer, but that number on the screen can give people a false sense of security that it must be right.

[johnallin]

If the issue is at my end then I must be like hundreds of other users that can't post anymore. I've tried across 3 different devices and I have issues with them all. I used my smartphone to post earlier this week and I can no longer login on that device. Right now, I'm using my office desktop which will only allow me to view in safemode (which sucks). My Surface will also only allow me to view in safemode. None of the devices allow me to see Vermont Forum posts in the past month. I also tried taptalk the forum app but I didn't find mapletrader on the app.

All I can say is that I've mostly given up on the forum.

My last resort is to start complaining to the advertisers.

Ken

I also have problems loading MT and can only use a Surface laptop or my phone...non of the desk tops (house or work) will allow me to log in, and you're right Ken - it sucks.

[Bucket Head]

I agree. Many users are long gone now and the reasons are obvious. With all the issues and lack of photo posting abilities, this site is a far cry from what it used to be. Fortunately, I do not have any logging on issues, but not being able to see what everyone is posting about is a dealbreaker.
There is a reason why televisions quickly replaced the radios in America's living rooms way back when.

Steve

[maple flats]

BAP, yes I am a moderator, but I need to sign in the same way you do, just like the way I put my pants on, same as you, one leg at a time. I do not have a hot link to get on, being a moderator only means I take the time to read posts that likely don't really interest me, and as I can I attempt to shed some light on the subject. It does not mean I have all of the answers nor even most of them, I just try when I can.

[BoerBoel]

For those with login or posting image in issues, have you tried clearing your browser's cache (at least for the mapletrader.com site)? This seems to correct some issues with web sites.

[USinCA]

Well this thread went a little off the rails... but I do agree, I'm frustrated with the image posting and http issue as well.

I finished another batch last night, and the hydrotherm is definitely unusable... I'm using a CDL syrup thermometer and thermapen thermometer calibrated to boiling point to finish, but I'm definitely not as consistent as I was last year.
Like I said, I treated the hydrotherm like fine china, so I'm not sure why it's off unless someone handled the box of syrup equipment a little too rough at some point during the year.
Maple Flats - Good tip on marking the hydrometer - and the leader gold thermometer looks very nice!

Dr. Perkins - Thanks for your input. I'm a mechanical engineer and I do a fair bit of lab work as part of my job. I definitely understand the need for calibration and verification, and how hard it is to create or maintain accurate instruments. I think I will be switching to a refractometer next year - could it be calibrated using a 66% (by mass) solution of table sugar and water? Could a hydrometer be calibrated using the same?

It would be nice to have two instruments to verify accuracy.

[Pibster]

I calibrate my refractometer with extra olive virgin oil. 71.5 brix.