NOOB getting RO -- Practical Considerations

[Andy VT]

2024 will be my 4th year. My 3rd year made it clear that getting into RO is the top priority of any investment I can make.
I'm 99% sure I'll go with R.O. Bucket because as much as I love DIY, I think the savings would be small and I hear nothing but awesome with R.O. Bucket support and I'd like to support that and be supported by it.
I've been reading up on the documentation on the RO Bucket website and a few questions have emerged.

The main one is, what do you backyarders all do for temperature control, especially between uses, especially those who don't really have a shelter? It sounds like the membrane stays wet all season (and maybe all off-season?), and thus must be prevented from freezing, and also best not to get too hot? The documentation suggests putting the prefilter in the fridge. Is this where you might put the membrane as well for the night, to keep it cold but not frozen? Or maybe build an insulated shelter for it? Or am I way overthinking this and you just bring the unit inside and don't worry about keeping it cold?

I guess that's really the one question. Temp control of the membrane between uses. What do you do?

Thanks!

Andy

[BAP]

Get a hold of Carl, the RO Bucket owner. He can answer most of your questions and is extremely helpful. He will give you advice as to what is best to do and what others have done. I have been very pleased when I have reached out to him with questions about my RO.

[Bricklayer]

Basically you just need to keep the unit from freezing. I keep our RO room a couple degrees above freezing. My theory is Zny bacteria in it is gonna grow faster the warmer it is.
I would just bring it inside at night and keep the unit in the basement. It’s a bucket. Nice and easy.
As for the pre filter. I’d just throw it out and use a new one every boil. If you look on Amazon you can get 50 packs where it works out to like $1.50 for a filter.

[DRoseum]

Agreed on 1 time use for sap pre-filter.

Can reuse permeate rinse pre-filters multiple times. Put in ziplock bag in fridge between uses.

As for temp control to prevent freezing, I built mine into coolers and use a silicon strip heater and temp controller to keep it at ~36F.

Bunch of videos on multiple builds I've done and how to use these ROs here:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6CwcmcTEWYxhYPQCMAWETg9gHWL7_RXw&si=yEEo7uzsLbsJssFv

[NoblesvilleIN]

I've used an RB-5 for the last 4 years (12 taps). Not sure what size you are thinking of purchasing. Mine is truly a bucket (purchased from Carl) and is kept indoors or on the enclosed back porch (if not freezing) during the season. I keep the pre-filter in the refridgerator between uses (one pre-filter for the season as I only RO about 100 gallons of sap in a season). In use, the RO bucket sits on the kitchen counter (very understanding wife!). After a session and cleaning, the pre-filter goes back in the refridgerator in a bag labeled "pre-filter" and the pre-filter that gets used in the flush cycle is in a bag labeled "flush". The bucket itself (with the membrane) either goes on the back porch (completely enclosed) if it is not too cold or in a corner of the kitchen if it would freeze on the back porch. At the end of the season, the unit sits in a spare bedroom for a couple of weeks with the lid off to make sure that the pump and lines are completely dry and then the lid goes on and the unit is moved to the basement storeroom until the next season. The end of the season cleaning process leaves the membrane wet. Hope this helps. The RO has been a real benefit for my very small backyard operation.

[30AcreWoods]

Lots of good advice here. I had multiple versions of the RO Bucket before upgrading to a 2 post 4x40 system. I would replace the pre filter every boil (as someone noted, a case of 50 is cheap, and the quality of your concentrate going-in leads to better quality syrup in the end). I would do a 1/2 rinse with the old prefilter, replace it with the new, and then finish the rinse with the new filter (always using RO water NEVER chlorinated water as that will wreck your membrane). As for temps, just don't let it freeze. The colder you keep the system, the better. I kept mine in the garage as it always seemed to be just above freezing. If it was going to be an extended hard freeze, into the basement it went (the bucket is easy to carry around). I will say, though, that if you are going for multiple membranes, I recommend getting the kit and building it on a board as that makes the pre-filter MUCH easier to remove and install, and fixing inevitable leaks easier as well. Wash the system at the end of the season and store it in a cool place (basement). If you want to rinse it every few months, that can help, but if you only have chlorinated water, replace the pre filter with an activated carbon filter and that will protect your membrane(s). Once you use it a few times, you will see how simple it is. Carl is great to work with...just reach out to him and he will answer your questions!

[Vtmbz]

I keep my ro20 in a foam lined box built under a stainless steel table. For heat i use a 20w seedling mat connected to a controller set to 40d. This is good down to about zero deg f. Off season i take the unit into the house. Id send photos if i could figure out how. You need 120v for my system btw. Works great.

[Gord]

Happened to see this post a little late. You can't go wrong with the RO Bucket. I had Carl build me a system I could add on to in the future. He's great to deal with and responds to your questions quickly. All of the above answers to your questions are great. One thing I will add is, be prepared for lots of water! You will be playing around with the flow coming out of the concentrate line for a while until you get the hang of it. I use a couple cups to fill to find that perfect 50/50 split so they fill evenly. I added shut off valves to my lines so I can make changes, move things around or just pause the whole process for a while without spraying water and concentrate everywhere. Have clean plastic buckets at the ready. If you have 30 gallons of sap, you're going to have 15 gallons of permeate. If you have 50 gallons of sap, you're going to have 25 gallons of permeate. You're going to want to keep that permeate for flushing out the membrane. Being prepared for all that water was the biggest issue for me the first time I used it. Clean buckets and a couple towls on hand will help. I also use translucent containers so I can just glance at them while they're filling to make sure I'm still getting the 50/50 split. Things change, at least for me. I can do other things while it's running, but I can't just set it, walk away, and expect it to remain 50/50.
You'll be happy you bought one. Saves a lot of time and cordwood for sure!

[maple flats]

The only part I question is using the same prefilter all season, certainly not suggested.

[ecp]

The only part I question is using the same prefilter all season, certainly not suggested. I agree. Sometimes if the sap it reallyclean mid-season sap I'll use the pre-filters for a second run but all season is a bad ideal. you can play around with it but best practice is new every use.

[wobbletop]

I agree. Sometimes if the sap it reallyclean mid-season sap I'll use the pre-filters for a second run but all season is a bad ideal. you can play around with it but best practice is new every use.

Yep. Buy a 25 pack off Amazon and use a new one almost every time.

[30AcreWoods]

Agree. I buy 50-packs. I replace every 300-gallons of sap, or every day, whichever comes first.

[Andy VT]

Thanks everyone, this has been really helpful.
Got another couple questions.
The RO bucket comes either as a kit or pre-assembled.
The pre-assembled are pictured with the membranes and maybe other components in a bucket, while the kit versions are shown with all the stuff mounted on a plywood board, presumably provided by the buyer.
1) The former is just a method of mounting/housing all the components, and not something that is filled with liquid, correct?
2) Do you generally have 3 containers in play (raw sap, concentrate, permeate) or just 2 containers (concentrate going back into the raw sap container, plus the permeate container)

[30AcreWoods]

Good questions. The bucket is just a housing. No liquid in there as there are holes drilled for the pump mounts, etc. For what it's worth, I ended up mounting mine on a board because it was much easier to replace the filter and to fix the inevitable little leaks that happen. If you are getting more than one RO membrane, I definitely recommend a board type setup.
I always had/have three containers. You can certainly recirculate the sap/concentrate in one container, but you have to mess with the tubes so that you don't get stratification layers, etc. I can't recall how many taps/how much sap you are planning for - that kind of makes a difference for your containers. You will find many uses for the RO water...

[Baka]

Greetings Andy, I'm a little late with this reply, but you may find it useful. As others have mentioned, Carl is great to deal with and will promptly answer all your questions. Here is my two cents worth on the RO Bucket/Kit.
I have a 2 membrane bucket, and just purchased a 4 membrane kit. As I type the parts and pieces are spread out on my bench as I decide how I want to arrange things. My shop where I have my tanks set up is unheated, so I'm going to mount the kit on a hand dolly so I can wheel it into a heated building while not in use. I have a 260 gallon tote, 3 - 60 gallon poly tanks, and some 5 gallon pails. I RO from the tote to a 60 gallon tank, then make a second pass from that tank to the next 60 gallon tank. Doing that I can turn a tote full of sap into 60 gallons of concentrate. When I start to RO, I fill the 5 gallon pails for clean up after finishing, then stick the water line through a hole in the wall and let the balance of the water dump on the ground. The 3rd poly tank is what I have in a trailer that I pull with an ATV to collect sap. I'm happy with my 50 buckets, while I have enough trees for about 2000 taps I don't want to go there. As for the RO Bucket, there are a couple things to be aware of. They use push fittings for the hose, which created some problems for me on the suction side...it you get a leak on a suction line the unit will not work. Keep the lines perfectly aligned with the fitting to help prevent that. I would prefer barb fittings for the suction and two discharge lines, but it is what it is. When operating, its important to keep the water and concentrate discharge the same, and its tough to visually do that when the two lines are different sizes. So what I do is discharge into two small containers. When I have the lines filling each container at an equal rate I know I have it set right. You may also notice some discrepancies in instructions between what's online and the manual that comes with the unit, but again Carl is great to deal with and will answer any questions promptly. Well that's my two cents worth...its a great product, and the most affordable option I know of for folks that operate on our small scale. Good luck with it!

[ScottT]

I'm also going to be purchasing an RO Bucket this year. Currently have 30 taps. May expand next year. If I were to expand next year, is it easy to simply add another membrane to an existing set-up?

[DRoseum]

Yes, if the pump is sufficiently sized. I'd always recommend buying the highest flowrate pump if you *might* expand. All of us here know that "might" = year over year expansion 🤣