Flat mainline run on shurflo, help designing please.

[BCardella]

So next year will be my second year sugaring. It’ll be my first with my new location behind my house. So far I’ve tagged about 70 trees and have about another 50-70 more to tag for tapping. Not sure if I’ll get to them next year or not, but I’ll probably start with the ones I have tagged in the picture. I’m trying to design my tubing system and have a bit of a predicament with choosing the design. My trees mostly are on a decent slope as you can see, but the majority of the distance back to the sugershack/collection point is basically flat. I dont think I can even get a 2% slope. So I was thinking I was a good candidate for individual 3/16 lines with 20-30 taps per run all the way back to the shurflo 4008 at the shack, but I’m concerned if the flat run after the trees is telling me I should go with a 3/4” mainline instead. If i was on high vacuum, I’d definitely go with 3/4” mainline, but being that the shurflo pumps work much better pulling liquid than pulling gas to make vacuum, I’m almost leaning towards the 3/16 plan all the way back to the shack. I also am debating about the lower cluster to the east. That section is actually level or slightly lower than where the pump will be, so I’m REALLY leaning towards 3/16 for that section. I’m definitely a fan so far of 3/16 in general and don’t think I’m a great candidate for 5/16 and 3/4 being that I’m running the shurflo. I don’t think I’ll have any issues maintaining cleanliness of the lines since it’s a very small bush, so I’m not afraid of 3/16 in general. What do you guys think would make the most sense for a design, keeping in mind the topography of the land I’m working with.

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q70/922/gFouVB.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pmgFouVBj)

[DRoseum]

Have you considered the following things
(1) make flatter sections of your lines at the TOP and run along the same elevation line towards your shack as far as you can and then drop towards your shack at the end. You will get more vacuum across all taps like that with the drop at the end.
(2) put your shurflo pump as far away from the shack as possible to maximize drop into the pump and minimize long flat sections into it. (Extension cord if necessary) Then run a single larger (5/16th perhaps) line from the pump to your shack. Pumping across a flat(er) area is better than pulling.

[Sugar Bear]

Have you considered the following things
(1) make flatter sections of your lines at the TOP and run along the same elevation line towards your shack as far as you can and then drop towards your shack at the end. You will get more vacuum across all taps like that with the drop at the end.


I have found that the value of this approach ( I think of it as plateaued tapping.) cannot be overstated in generating natural vacuum on my 5/16th tubing. But importantly, a little bit of drop from tap to tap on the plateau of taps helps keep the system drained as needed and cleaner over the season and through the seasons.

[DRoseum]

Agreed you still want some drop tree to tree up top, but keep the shallower slope up top and the steeper drop at the end.

[BCardella]

Like this?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/150x100q70/923/ieayTM.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnieayTMj)

[DRoseum]

Yes, like that with the dark blue lines on your drawing.

[Sugar Bear]

Like this?

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/150x100q70/923/ieayTM.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnieayTMj)

Yes, as much that way as possible and I would say that would be the best use of the contour to get the best "natural" vacuum. Remember to try to keep that final run to the tank as steep as possible with regards to the contours.

Taps on the left look like they will have to fully rely on the pump, unless you can get the final run to a tank that is farther down to the left of the picture and also downhill from them as well.

[Sugar Bear]

Is that group on the left Red Maples by any chance? That looks like it might be at flood plain level because of the bog in the lower left. Group on the slope looks more likely to be Sugars.

[BCardella]

Is that group on the left Red Maples by any chance? That looks like it might be at flood plain level because of the bog in the lower left. Group on the slope looks more likely to be Sugars.

All reds I believe. And the problem with the lower cluster is they’re in a wetland area and I don’t trust putting a barrel down there. I’m going to have to just use vacuum and pull them very slightly up hill. If I grab them at all. I may not worry about them until I tap all the higher ones I can, and I already have way more than enough up higher, although they’re further away.

[Sugar Bear]

Yes, I figured those on the flood plain had to be Reds but thought perhaps those on the hill were sugars because on the Hudson Valley River Intervals, typically the Reds will prevail on the flood plain almost exclusively and then as you have any rising glacial sluff, even just a few vertical feet off the flood plain, the sugars will prevail (albeit some reds will propagate there as well ). So I was hoping those were sugars in the big cluster up slope. But no big deal, just a bit more work for you, same exact great taste. Don't let anybody get racist on you with quality/taste on reds VS sugars.

Getting at least some vacuum on the Reds will be important. IMO the ones on the slope should be easy. I have no experience pumping up hill so can't speak for the ones down by the bog. I imagine a good pump will work well on those but not sure.

I have a cluster of 21 Reds that I tap in Connecticut and the situation is nice because they are up on the flat (wetter and poorly drained ) of a ridge side. With a steep drop down to my barrel. The first year I tapped them they were on drops to buckets and many of them did not run well at all and some not at all. The next year I did 5/16 tubing on them and they ran off of that alone and generated a little natural gravity and so then I put a solar 12 volt pump on them and they ran so well I was overflowing my barrel in one day/night.

So Reds want/need some vacuum and the more the better as you may well know.

If you're going to be using a decent pump, then don't worry so much about the natural gravity you are going to generate. Either way you do the gravity run, the gravity vacuum generated, is not going to blow the collection barrel up. But do take advantage of it as best you can and try to get everything down sloping at least a tad. Drops included.

As we said the steeper and longer that final run to the barrel is the better, but simply put that is the haymaker in gravity tubing, even though hydro dynamics in Vaccuum tubing is VERY complicated.