Opinions on (small) 3/16 to mainline setup.

[ADK_XJ]

Hi all, I've been cruising other posts and put together a basic plan of attack that I wanted to run by the experts for a crowd sourcing of any potential current or future pitfalls:

- we have a large concentration of mature sugar maples at the top end of the east side of our woods, several hundred taps easily

- we have been using buckets and a few tubed taps but will switch them all to 20-30 tap 3/16 lines

- we measured a total run of 1000' and, based on the topographical aerial overlays for our county, a total drop of 50'...so 5% overall slope

- most of that slope is within the first half of the run, it drops dramatically from the maple stand down into a draw with a seasonal, vernal pool

- my plan is to run the 3/16 up until the slope begins to lessen and then string a several hundred food section of mainline on 12 gauge (tightened with ratchets on eye screws) over the vernal pool, across a small creek (too muddy to traverse by vehicle) and into a collection container off the main trail

- my strong preference is to NOT use vacuum, therefore I am planning on using just 1/2" mainline with a star-manifold at the top end that will connect to the incoming (3-6) 3/16 lines...I will have to use 3/16 to 5/16 adapters due to available fittings

- my understanding is that, without vacuum, the 1/2" will be sufficient to run the sap the remaining way...there is 1-2% slope the remaining distance to the tank and we will span any major dips

[Pdiamond]

Sounds like you have a good plan. How large of a collection container are you placing for the taps?

[ADK_XJ]

It will be a standard size IBC tote...so about 275g.

[BAP]

Depending upon how many taps you are actually putting into your mainline, you may need to run a little bigger line to make sure you don’t overload it. Sounds like you have a good plan, just check your numbers before executing it.

[ADK_XJ]

Depending upon how many taps you are actually putting into your mainline, you may need to run a little bigger line to make sure you don’t overload it. Sounds like you have a good plan, just check your numbers before executing it. Thanks, my understanding (albeit limited) was that if I'm only using gravity the 1/2" line would be sufficient to run a "significant" number of taps on 3/16" into because it's when the vacuum is introduced that you need additional headroom (air) in the mainline.

So, I guess the question is what number tips the scales into the larger size or is it just when using vacuum? This year I will have just over 100 taps on tubing that is all run together into that line...we could probably expand but we also don't have the RO or evaporator yet to handle much more than 150-200 taps total between these upgraded lines and our old buckets (which I love).

[buckeye gold]

I have a very similar set up. I have 4 3/16 laterals totalling around 100 taps that connect to a 1/2" mainline all on natural gravity. The set up does fine and could haddle more, go for it

[ADK_XJ]

I have a very similar set up. I have 4 3/16 laterals totalling around 100 taps that connect to a 1/2" mainline all on natural gravity. The set up does fine and could haddle more, go for it Great, good to know someone else has done it this way, too! Yes, I would probably have taps enough to go up to 200 some day on this line but would have to completely overhaul my evaporator and RO by then. This should cover me in the "early years" of having two kids and a busy job.

[billyinvt]

100 3/16 taps into a 275 tote could easily fill up during a strong run. I hope you're able to get to it daily.

[VTnewguy]

I would oversize it now with 3/4". Not a lot of 1/2" pipe out there so it might be difficult to find saddles and the 3/4" pipe will be comparable in price but allow for more taps.

[ADK_XJ]

100 3/16 taps into a 275 tote could easily fill up during a strong run. I hope you're able to get to it daily. yep, that was a major motivation for making this move, it puts the collection tank less than 100 yards or so of our barn where I boil. But you do have me thinking I might want some kind of overflow...

[ADK_XJ]

I would oversize it now with 3/4". Not a lot of 1/2" pipe out there so it might be difficult to find saddles and the 3/4" pipe will be comparable in price but allow for more taps. thanks, I am seeing that now - the only place I can seem to find 1/2" is at Roth's Sugar Bush and it's only 150 feet with 5/16 fittings exclusively. I just discovered I have two extra rolls of 3/16" so I may try to run them the entire way to the collection and pick up that extra 20' or so of natural vacuum. The slope should be plenty and worst case I will throw a Shur Flo pump on the end.

[toothfairy050]

FYI I was told by my tubing and fitting supplier that many of the 3/16 manufactures are phasing out of producing 3/16 products

[buckeye gold]

Push come to shove you can get 1/2 waterline at any hardware stor and fittingst that will work. As long as it's potable water safe it's ok. The black may heat up a little in warm weather is a slight concern.

I have not heard 3/16 is being phased out. That seems odd, is sales way off or is it a raw materials supply problem? If 3/16 goes away I may just shut my doors permanently, I already geared down. I just find it hard to believe it's lost that much use.

[tombaisley]

3/16th is an over rated fad. there is no replacement for displacement

[buckeye gold]

Well, after doing a lot of searching through all the Maple suppliers I could think of and searching research at both Proctor and Cornell, I found nothing to say 3/16" tubing is going away or is a bad application. Does someone have a link to documentation on the subject....or are you just jerking our chains? I have used 3/16 since 2017 and I am very happy with it. I practice good sanitation and new spouts every year and most years new drops and tees. The cost is much cheaper and easy to work with. As long as I can get it I'm using it and will recommend it for applications with proper slope.

[ADK_XJ]

I've not heard anything about "discontinuing" 3/16 either...I have heard some producers experience a drop off in production on their 3/16 after a few seasons and I recall reading it was due to a combination of gunk built up in fittings and lack of sanitation.

I send 50 gallons of peroxide solution up my lines at the end of the season last year, allowed for contact time and then pulled taps - I am going to do the same thing to start this year and sanitize my SS taps before replacing.

I'm not replacing drop-lines or any tee fittings at this time, they're all only a few years old but may in the future. We will see in the coming year but 3/16 is an excellent solution for my scenario in theory. Dr. Tim has written about this at length in other threads...

[johnallin]

3/16th is an over rated fad. there is no replacement for displacement

That's just plain BS.

[buckeye gold]

I agree Johnallin, I was just trying to be diplomatic....BS and pot stirring. Mods take note

If there's data out there I certainly want to see it and use whatever knowledge I can. But I don't need rumors and bias opinions

so to keep on topic. I wouldn't let fear of 3/16 shortages stop me ftom setting up a system on it.

[toothfairy050]

TAKE A BREATH!!!!!! I think you are over acting.
I didn't say you are wrong JUST stating what I was told.

[ADK_XJ]

Ha, well that went a way I wasn't thinking...anyway, 3/16 seems just fine the way we're using it here.

[jputney]

This is good info... I am contemplating doing something similar. I would caution only having one tote on that many taps. I put out about 110 last year on 3/16 natural vacuum and had over 700 gallons of sap in one 36 hour period.

[DrTimPerkins]

3/16th is an over rated fad. there is no replacement for displacement

3/16” tubing is a tool. Like all tools, it can be very helpful under the right circumstances. Used incorrectly it can be problematic. Some producers used it and some suppliers recommended it in places it was not intended to be used with poor results. Correctly used in proper sites and maintained well (sanitized properly), it is great. I doubt that it will go away, but hope that producers and suppliers learn where it should be used and how it should be cleaned, and just as importantly, where it shouldn’t be used.