Tapping for winter 22–23

[WalkerRun]

I plan to tap this Wednesday, 12-28, as the below 0 temps are done there should be several days of good flow. Walker Run Maple , Randolph County

[buckeye gold]

Remember, it will take the trees 2-4 days to thaw out and produce sap. I may put my early taps out this weekend, in southern Ohio.

[WalkerRun]

I’m well over 2000 ft here. By the weekend we’re looking at high twenties to low sixties. I’m on a south facing mountain.

[WalkerRun]

Put 130 taps in. Had a strong flow all day. It’s looking good for tomorrow. Maybe I’ll finally get some light syrup?

[canaanmaple]

Tapped last friday 2/10 and been real perfect weather for sap since! 20's every night high 30s to 40s in the day and flowing nicely! I think later today until friday it wont get below freezing though so should be a real big gush coming on. Friday night should be into the teens for a reset and some more decent sugaring temps. Looks like hints of snow and seasonal colder temps at the end of the 10 day. Not uncommon to be snowed out in March here at all, so a good ski break will be welcome :)

as of last night got 1000 gallons processed from 375 taps in 3 different sugarbushes and 1.7, 2.0, and 2.7% sap. Lots of big old farm trees online helps with the sugar for sure! Suspect ill have about 600 gallons to pick up today after work. Didnt dip down to the 20s till early morning today but should warm up to high 50s!

[darkmachine]

All the energy i wasted worrying about missing the season i should have put into cutting firewood, or putting out more taps...the season is here for our camp, never starts slow all the trees just started running hard yesterday....same for today, looking forward to a good weekend here too.

[canaanmaple]

I coulda started a few weeks earlier I guess...but at least its starting off really good! some nice early season golden so far....just "rough" filtered off the evaporator for a photo op :)
22877

[darkmachine]

Looks good! i'll have to snap some pictures of my first for the season, i don't think it's a light as yours though. Still pretty light for us however. Right now it sitting in a five gallon bucket waiting for later in the week to package....need to get some jars!

[220 maple]

Congratulations to you lucky producers in the cold climes, I’m hanging by a thread in the low lands, will have my fourth 70 degree day since I opened the the trees, hopefully I can make it to the Friday freeze, the other issue is the lack of moisture, got two tenths of rain on Super Sunday, Darkmachine if you got the same amount as Harrisonburg your in great shape, muddy mess in Rockingham County!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

Congratulations to you lucky producers in the cold climes, I’m hanging by a thread in the low lands, will have my fourth 70 degree day since I opened the the trees, hopefully I can make it to the Friday freeze, the other issue is the lack of moisture, got two tenths of rain on Super Sunday, Darkmachine if you got the same amount as Harrisonburg your in great shape, muddy mess in Rockingham County!
Mark 220 Maple

its been dry here too! at least it means not slogging in mud :) looks like rain tommorrow and snow next week tho.

[canaanmaple]

hoping for a big run the next few days after that deep freeze fri/sat. 53 and sunny now, but sap barely a trickle so far as the ground is frozen still too. doesnt look to be freezing at night till next thursday night, so hope we all can limp along till then since it looks like freezing every night again after thursday in the 10day fcast. rolling the dice!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple
I believe you will be fine, your tapholes are very fresh, I doubt I survive this week. I’ve had to many 70 degree days already, Dr Rechlin and I are going to research weather underground history, both of us are curious about the heat we have dealt with in the lowlands, my friend that makes walnut just got his best run yesterday, his tap holes are much fresher than mine so he has a chance of survival also!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

So as for this winters crazy weather, a retired NWS meteorologist who has studied and focused on the weather in the WV high country sent this explanation with a recent forecast.. he calls the pattern maker "king kong" since its resisted any major change with cold trying to push in and establish. Not only distressing to maple industry, but for the snow sports industry that relies on natural snow. 3.6" snow in February is litterally unheard of here!

details of WTF is going on...

"King Kong is a nickname I gave to this winter's huge, anomalous dome (or ridge) of unusually warm air that extends from the central Gulf of Mexico northeast into the Caribbean Sea and into the Atlantic Ocean south of Bermuda. Think of it as a very high mountain ridge with a southwest-to-northeast axis, similar to the orientation of the Allegheny and Appalachian Mountains ridges.

This upper-air ridge has been unusually strong and persistent this winter. It's orientation results in a southwest flow of mild air around it out of the sub-tropics including the Gulf of Mexico, Mexico, and the Pacific Ocean off Baja California (westernmost Mexico).

The ridge's summit reaches the jet stream and beyond, 4 miles up (20,000 feet plus). The jet stream, while high up, also controls where the weather comes from and goes at the surface where we live. The ridge is typically a huge dome/torpedo-shaped-feature, with a summit axis averaging about 500 to 1,000 miles or more in length!

This ridge is typically stronger than average in La Nina winters (cool equatorial Pacific sea surface temperatures), which is the condition we have this winter. This is the third consecutive winter with La Nina conditions we have experienced, equaling an all-time, multi-decadal record. Winter snowfall in the WV High Country has been below average all of the last three La-Nina seasons, consistent with the historical record in Canaan for such events.

This "ridge" is just too big and strong (hence my nickname King Kong) for cold air masses moving southeast out of Canada or the mid-west to move or over-top it. Instead, having to go around this massive obstacle, they are deflected to the north, sparing much of the east coast from outbreaks of cold Canadian/Polar air.

Only two exceptions to this scenario have occurred this winter (Christmas and early February) with both cold events providing waves of cold air that over-washed the ridge. However, both events only lasted a couple days before Kong reestablished his ground"

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple
I’ve not had much fun this season, I heard yesterday that some producers in Garrett County have given up and threw in the towel? With their elevation that is surprising! My source is my cousin that helps me tap, works for First United in Oakland, has a lot of connections around Garrett County. Oh well, if I’m crazy enough to try again next year maybe it will be better? This season is almost like the Spring of 2000 only made 80 gallons and half of that was buddy!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple
I’ve not had much fun this season, I heard yesterday that some producers in Garrett County have given up and threw in the towel? With their elevation that is surprising! My source is my cousin that helps me tap, works for First United in Oakland, has a lot of connections around Garrett County. Oh well, if I’m crazy enough to try again next year maybe it will be better? This season is almost like the Spring of 2000 only made 80 gallons and half of that was buddy!
Mark 220 Maple


hmm I dont think it would the STeyer Brothers in Garrett. (right over the MD line on 560) They do about 50 barrels a year. Theres a smaller producer in Redhouse that started weeks before me, maybe him... I see 3 freezing nights in the 10 day ahead, but also 2 days around 60. (at least its with rain and not sun) I fear buddy sap before tap holes drying up..... no sign of green growth anywhere, heard a RObin the other day, but no peepers yet!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple
I’m sure the Steyer’s are not one of Garrett producers that have given up! They use a lot of the little stainless 1/8 inch spiles and will move then several times during the season, or they used to, I have a least 400 of them, they have wanted to buy them for ever! The Enlow’s on the Friendsville road is one I heard gave up. Robins maybe a sign for you, but many seasons I’ve had hundreds if not thousands all together, in the woods during sugaring season, just about like a scene from Hitchcock’s The Birds, the bad signs for me is Daffodils, peep frogs and earthworms !
Mark 220 Maple

[darkmachine]

i'm still getting sap, even today, it was 70 degrees, and running pretty steady into the releaser. I don't have that many on vacuum maybe 200 but our geography is likely working to my advantage. we are usually 10 degrees colder than in town which means we get freeze when no one else does. I'm looking forward to a few good runs over the weekend and maybe next week, after that it will be close the regular end of my season. I couldn't survive on buckets through, i have about 130 out and it's been pathetic. I think next season ill just push out the vacuum system, try to get another 200 or so online and not hang any buckets, especially if we are having the same odd weather. As far as frogs, i have them, but i always do this time of year the water boils with them, even if it's snowing.

[canaanmaple]

i'm still getting sap, even today, it was 70 degrees, and running pretty steady into the releaser. I don't have that many on vacuum maybe 200 but our geography is likely working to my advantage. we are usually 10 degrees colder than in town which means we get freeze when no one else does. I'm looking forward to a few good runs over the weekend and maybe next week, after that it will be close the regular end of my season. I couldn't survive on buckets through, i have about 130 out and it's been pathetic. I think next season ill just push out the vacuum system, try to get another 200 or so online and not hang any buckets, especially if we are having the same odd weather. As far as frogs, i have them, but i always do this time of year the water boils with them, even if it's snowing.

Yeah yesterday I got a surprising amount of sap compared to the day before!? even though it hadn't deep froze since saturday. Sunday it just started to run, and monday was 2gals tap per day, tuesday was 1 gallon per tap, wednesday was maybe .75 gal per tap, then yesterday was back up to 1 gal per tap. I think it musta been that sunshine finally! It was close to 60 though. Now its 31 degrees again and looks to be in 20s tonight. Just hoping it doesnt get buddy on me, but this coming week looks fairly decent in the forecast. Where exactly are you Dark Machine?

Mark, a buddy said he was driving yesterday and saw someone on 220 between petersburg and franklin tending to maple tanks. Assuming that was you! Still getting sap?

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
Yes Todd that might have been me there on US 220, Dr. Mike and the Landowner Mr. Kimble and myself have spent a lot of time there installing a mechanical assist pump on the 243 taps that are on 3/16 tubing into 3/4 mainline . We put one on Tuesday where he had a research setup, no sap flowing because last freeze was last Sunday night, and it was not much of a freeze at that maybe 28 for a couple hours, by adding the assist all six test lines started running and ran until Yesterday afternoon! Caught a good freeze last night, still frozen! I’m hanging with Mike today, going to tap a tree today that I never heard of anyone ever tapping, then dropping in on SpruceKnob Maple , last stop today delivering a tank to CanaanMaple, looking forward to meeting you.
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple,
Yes Todd that might have been me there on US 220, Dr. Mike and the Landowner Mr. Kimble and myself have spent a lot of time there installing a mechanical assist pump on the 243 taps that are on 3/16 tubing into 3/4 mainline . We put one on Tuesday where he had a research setup, no sap flowing because last freeze was last Sunday night, and it was not much of a freeze at that maybe 28 for a couple hours, by adding the assist all six test lines started running and ran until Yesterday afternoon! Caught a good freeze last night, still frozen! I’m hanging with Mike today, going to tap a tree today that I never heard of anyone ever tapping, then dropping in on SpruceKnob Maple , last stop today delivering a tank to CanaanMaple, looking forward to meeting you.
Mark 220 Maple

Oh cool! I need one more tank for RO water :) I usually start dumping it when the one I have fills up and I hate to do that! Gonna swap a few tanks out at my collection spots with clean ones I have here, since its much easier than trying to clean em back at home base. Those totes get nasty quick when its sunny and 50s, good grief! Just cant afford stainless at this point. Really need to figure out a good rinse system right after pumping the tanks to keep em cleaner. Just a water rinse somehow would work wonders.

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
After visiting you Mike and I was at Robins probably a hour or longer, we adjusted the height of tubing, my first thought wow she tapped below the lateral, actually never slid the tubing back down the tree, she was getting tremendous run! Found three spiles leaking air, tapped them in tighter an fixed that! Also the wye connection appears to be leaking? Mike considered replacing it with a tee. I told him Tim Wilmont the god father of 3/16 tubing said a wye is a no no! So a tee is basically a no no also. Wish I had got your number so I could privately text you, I tried to convince her to tap the whole mountain and sell you sap!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

Thats great Mark, thanks! Hopefully you have inspired her! Would be nice to only get my sap there since its never below 2% there. Ive tried telling her she should just turn the old barn at the bottom into a sugar shack and tap the mtn also, and I would just work for her :) Sap was running good yesterday afternoon when i switched out tanks even though temps didnt get much above freezing and was overcast. We got a few borderline freezing nights coming up, then next saturday looks like teens at night with possible large snow. Hope trees will still be in good shape!

[darkmachine]

Yeah yesterday I got a surprising amount of sap compared to the day before!? even though it hadn't deep froze since saturday. Sunday it just started to run, and monday was 2gals tap per day, tuesday was 1 gallon per tap, wednesday was maybe .75 gal per tap, then yesterday was back up to 1 gal per tap. I think it musta been that sunshine finally! It was close to 60 though. Now its 31 degrees again and looks to be in 20s tonight. Just hoping it doesnt get buddy on me, but this coming week looks fairly decent in the forecast. Where exactly are you Dark Machine?

I'm in Hardy county not too far from where Mark is on 220. I'm near Trout Pond recreation area. I't running decent today, I went and did a vacuum check and found a few leaky taps, after i fixed that i was back up to 23" I am hoping to at least get through this week and still be getting good sap, it might pause mid week, but i'll take the opportunity to clean my releaser and cut firewood. I only have made about half what i mad last year, at least i'm not using the sales to pay bills, just to build more maple things.

[220 maple]

Darkmachine,
When I was at CanaanMaple Saturday I told him I believe you was at the other end of the road to no where, some reason I thought you was on Pine Ridge Road, Trout Pond road is the last exit off before Wardensville and two lane road !

[darkmachine]

Previous location was on pine ridge, we built a house on my grandfathers farm, makes it easier to make syrup when your shack is in the front yard, lol. If you were coming from Moorefield on 48 you would drive until it ends and make the last right turn on the the trout run cut off to head my direction. it was 28 here this morning, not a good hard freeze, but i'll take it!

[canaanmaple]

dang Darkmachine, thats colder than me this morning! It was 33 when I went to bed so was thinking it would run all night. like 31 early morning so it probably did keep running.

Mark, I added a shurflo to one sugarbush that had a long low angle run out to the tank like Mike Rechlin was talking about the other day. It already had decent sap per tap ratio compared to the other locations, but lets see if it goes up! :)

Heres hoping we can make it till Friday without any budding production (my only worry!) looks like a bunch of hard freeze nights creeping back into the forecast as the la nina is breaking down and we are predicted to have a below average temperature outlook for march! 22943

Saw some daffodils starting to poke out of the ground where I know them to be. Its still Feb for goodness sake unreal!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
You will be fine, trees only bud overnight in Vermont, a least that what I was told, used to work with a lady that help Burr Morris somewhere in Vermont, said leaves can pop in three days? If it’s not true she said it! I’m pretty sure someone posted years ago it takes a freeze of 17 degree or lower to reset the trees, again that maybe not true also.
Mark 220 Maple

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
If Robin ever runs tubing on up the mountain, into what I told her was her sugar mountain of gold, her sugar content will drop, her old growth sugar have a lot of top therefore catching tons of sunshine in which they turn in sugar, her woods trees do not have the top too catch sunlight. Yes she has a dream location, but riding with Dr. Mike Saturday I was almost sick looking at sugar trees, we first stopped on Spruce at Experience Learning, oh my acres upon acres of Sugar trees, all untapped, all setting in some of coldest places in West Virginia, then we went down the Dryfork to SpruceKnob Maple, we know they could expand to 80000 taps and maybe 100000 taps running directly into the building, the 267 acre mountain that you look at from the front door of SpruceKnob Maple. Mike and I did the plot survey 100 to 120 taps to the acre so let’s say 25000 taps, for the next six miles it looks the same, I may guess wrong, but a sugar house at the head of Dryfork hollow at least 500000 taps! Todd how big a pipeline would it take to handle 500000 taps? Probably 3/4 mains would be to small? May have to go with 1 inch mains!!!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

that would be awesome, and I would just work for them! yesterday was a good sap day. another 600 gallons down! I stopped saving concentrate overnight so stay up a little later than would like to now, but its probably for the best. Darn day job cutting into my sap time! :) made nice amber last night.

Man... if I can make it through the next few days, the following week looks absolutely perfect for sapping like it should be this time of year!! fingers crossed!
22957

[canaanmaple]

got 400 after work today since hasnt froze in a few days, thats like 1 gal per tap. Usually the first day of a run is 2 gal per tap, then if it doesnt freeze the next day is 1 gal per tap,
then .75 - .5 per tap the next day etc... but its 25 degrees now so hopefully cold enough for a reset! NWS had 30 for the low, but its a clear night, so up in the valley its always much lower than forecasted. (especially in the fall you can count on 10 degrees lower than the forecast)
supposed to be sunny and 60 tomorrow so might be a good flow... Was making amber last night, but tonight it was lighter and like the early season flavor?!

march is coming in like a lamb, so might be going out like a lion!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
I got Robin’s number Saturday, had to send her a picture of her with a baby Beagle that the young couple’s children had with them! They was from Wirt County and discovered syrup and sap at the lodge! Young father is getting into syrup production, maybe Robin told you about them! Apparently her long time Beagle pet had recently passed! She texted back and thanked me and Mike for coming to her woods for some on the mountain training and suggestions. I sent her another suggestion on how to get her mountain tapped! What is your estimate of the amount of taps available on her property? 10000? More? I would like to do some plot surveys. She is probably at that 100 taps per acre just like down in the Dryfork on the 267 acres I would like to lease. That property plotted 100 to 120 taps an acre! Easy 25000 taps!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple,
I got Robin’s number Saturday, had to send her a picture of her with a baby Beagle that the young couple’s children had with them! They was from Wirt County and discovered syrup and sap at the lodge! Young father is getting into syrup production, maybe Robin told you about them! Apparently her long time Beagle pet had recently passed! She texted back and thanked me and Mike for coming to her woods for some on the mountain training and suggestions. I sent her another suggestion on how to get her mountain tapped! What is your estimate of the amount of taps available on her property? 10000? More? I would like to do some plot surveys. She is probably at that 100 taps per acre just like down in the Dryfork on the 267 acres I would like to lease. That property plotted 100 to 120 taps an acre! Easy 25000 taps!
Mark 220 Maple

she could probably get to the 10,000 mark! I've spent over a decade on the whole mountain both skiing, and clearing woods and trails in the fall for skiing. Almost all sugars and hardly any reds. saw Mikes truck out there yesterday when I was picking up sap, guess he was up helping her fix stuff. I try when I have time, even though I am buying sap from her, because it's worth getting as much of the 2% + I can get!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
Some sad faces down here, within a six hour window are forecast of two weeks of winter temperatures disappeared, I for one was not surprised, I never pay any attention to long range forecast! I’ve said many times I wouldn’t believe the Weather man if he told me his mother was a woman, same statement applies to politicians! My buddy Ed at SweetCreek Maple in Tyler County had been telling me since the last week of January, hang in there brother cold weather is coming, I asked two days ago if he believes we will get a good freeze in December, he sent back a sweating emoji! So good luck to you high elevation producers, hope you get a freeze everyday that we get down to 33 degrees!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple,
Some sad faces down here, within a six hour window are forecast of two weeks of winter temperatures disappeared, I for one was not surprised, I never pay any attention to long range forecast! I’ve said many times I wouldn’t believe the Weather man if he told me his mother was a woman, same statement applies to politicians! My buddy Ed at SweetCreek Maple in Tyler County had been telling me since the last week of January, hang in there brother cold weather is coming, I asked two days ago if he believes we will get a good freeze in December, he sent back a sweating emoji! So good luck to you high elevation producers, hope you get a freeze everyday that we get down to 33 degrees!
Mark 220 Maple

I like that quote about weatherman and politians. At least one of those two are guessing and not actually lying! :) I think there is a pattern flip coming, but just a little late.
This is the lowest snowfall in the 73 years of record keeping here! 3.9" :O We had more snow in April last year than Feb this year!?

this guy (who is selling his house, so losing the official nws observer) has kept records for the past 20+ years and you can see detailed data. We are only at 40" snow for the season, but have never been under 100 since 2000. (altho in the 1930's is was supposed to have been this bad a year or two) extreme detailed winter weather data for this area since 2000 ... http://data.canaanmtnsnow.com/

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
Just curious do you get the high winds like I get down off the mountain? Today’s forecast is wind of 30 to 40 mph with gusts up to 60! Little to stout to fly a kite! Or do anything in the woods, last time I was out checking lines a limb broke off and landed about 10 feet from me, it actually hit a lateral so hard it knocked a spile right out of a tree! Nice size dead limb, sometimes referred to as a Widow maker!
Mark 220 Maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple,
Just curious do you get the high winds like I get down off the mountain? Today’s forecast is wind of 30 to 40 mph with gusts up to 60! Little to stout to fly a kite! Or do anything in the woods, last time I was out checking lines a limb broke off and landed about 10 feet from me, it actually hit a lateral so hard it knocked a spile right out of a tree! Nice size dead limb, sometimes referred to as a Widow maker!
Mark 220 Maple

It's pretty much never NOT windy in Canaan :P But yeah high wind warning and was wailing all night now with snow. Have a handful of trees down in yard but they were standing dead pines anyway. only 29 so doubt enough to make the sap run, but who knows, sometimes I get surprised. One more 58 degree day in forecast before a steady dose of nightly 20's in the 10day.... 2/3's the way to making what I made last year, so I hope to match it or exceed... only worried about buddy, but the last syrup I made thursday night was a delicious amber! (steyers said they did also...I always check in on them to see whats going on since they are the closest big producer, even though over the line, but just barely by a few miles so we can count them as mountaineers!)

[darkmachine]

I'm looking at the forecast and i'm hopeful I can get at least a few more gallons made, we are usually a little colder here, last night we had 27, but this morning at 9am the power went out and didn't come back until 2pm....a whole day of run wasted...when the power came back on boy did it run.http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=22989&stc=1

[220 maple]

Darkmachine,
I don’t remember if you posted you elevation, if your much below 3000 feet considered yourself lucky, I would have to believe your the loan survivor, possibly the new producer near Circleville, my sources tell me he made some good syrup last week, the last good sap I got was on 2/21/23, not buddy just eat up with bacteria, ropey syrup! Everyone in the Higher elevations should get two more weeks, Dr Mike and I took a portable RO to another new producer in Grant County, he has good sap and fresh taps, at least another two weeks I hope for him, we got a deal where I finish, filter press and bottle his syrup, on a barter where he pays me in syrup, good deal for me because I’m at 50 % of crop! Hopefully he will sell me some bulk also, his main goal is to get his land the farm discount on property taxes! 75% discount is good savings on property taxes, another advantage for landowners to lease their trees or sell sap!
Mark220maple

[canaanmaple]

Finally getting the darn pattern change prognosticators have been predicting. Yesterday started out at 20 degrees, but went to 60 and sunny. Hopefully the last 60 degree day in a while!! Sap ran great in my new north facing woods, but seems to have really slowed on the northwest facing woods that have the bigger trees...need to go walk the lines I guess. Still making a nice amber. Need to go check out DarkMachines operation! Wardensville is only an hour away from me because of the superhighway that ends there :)

[darkmachine]

I'm not far off from being done, after my rounds this morning, i poured out about 100 gallons from yesterday that went ropey while our power was out...not enough to fire up the RO. I'll rinse and clean and let it run on the ground until the flow picks up, and if it doesn't i'll flush and pull my taps and hope for a better season next year, lol.

[canaanmaple]

it can go ropey that fast?

[darkmachine]

On a regular day i would have pumped it by about 10am yesterday and collected buckets, but power was out all day...I assume it was the little bit in the bottom of the tank that ran before the power went out, that sat in the heat all day, that inoculated each dump from the releaser. I've had a whole evaporator go ropey in 24 hours, it's sad. time to get the propane burner out and drain the evaporator, don't want my sweet to go ropey too!

[canaanmaple]

On a regular day i would have pumped it by about 10am yesterday and collected buckets, but power was out all day...I assume it was the little bit in the bottom of the tank that ran before the power went out, that sat in the heat all day, that inoculated each dump from the releaser. I've had a whole evaporator go ropey in 24 hours, it's sad. time to get the propane burner out and drain the evaporator, don't want my sweet to go ropey too!

yeah ive had the flue pan go ropey end of last season in a few days because I didn't drain the float box! Now when im out of sap, i kill the fire and drain float box and dump it in the flue pan while its still hot so hope I dont get that problem anymore! if I go more than a few days without sap, Ill bring evaporator to a little boil.

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
Yes sap can go ropey in 24 hours in the flue pan especially, I’ve moved sap forward many times to save it, super sweet RO sap waits for no one! I’ve run it up to 11 percent many times, got to boil every drop, best deal is these real cold nights and my pans freeze, frozen 11 percent sap get slushy but never freezes solid! Oh well maybe next year?
CanaanMaple what is the elevation of the trees you are working with? Cameron’s on Dolly is above 3300 feet!
Mark220maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple,
CanaanMaple what is the elevation of the trees you are working with? Cameron’s on Dolly is above 3300 feet!
Mark220maple

the floor of the valley is 3200', so above that! Ive never checked, but I am sure the highest trees would be maybe 3500-3600'? the ridgeline around the valley goes to 4300'

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
You high elevation producers are the lucky ones this year! Does Robin’s sugar mountain of gold go to the ridge line at 4300 foot? Over at SpruceKnob Maple there is not one Maple at 4300, they didn’t grow there due to cold, the Sugar mountain of gold that I would like to lease for sap production beside SpruceKnob Maple tops out at 4200 feet, totally maple covered at 100 to 120 taps to the acre. Our friends at Proctor was surprised that we have Maples at that elevation, too cold further north for Maples at those elevations.
Mark220maple

[canaanmaple]

CanaanMaple,
You high elevation producers are the lucky ones this year! Does Robin’s sugar mountain of gold go to the ridge line at 4300 foot? Over at SpruceKnob Maple there is not one Maple at 4300, they didn’t grow there due to cold, the Sugar mountain of gold that I would like to lease for sap production beside SpruceKnob Maple tops out at 4200 feet, totally maple covered at 100 to 120 taps to the acre. Our friends at Proctor was surprised that we have Maples at that elevation, too cold further north for Maples at those elevations.
Mark220maple

There aren't any maples up to the top, its mostly red spruce, birch an mountain holly. I'd say the sugar maples go to 3800 ish around here. Keep working on her too Mark!! I think the best scenario would be to just get a lease agreement, so we can run the show! Ive asked a few times to add taps and got turned down so I am stuck with buying sap from a not well kept system thats full of line bacteria since drops are on there 4th year and production is going downhill fast. At least its always 2% or more. Hell I would do all the work and pay for system and still pay her .20/gal for sap!

another 18 degree night. Sap didn't even run yesterday since the lines were still kind of frozen near sundown since it only got to 37 and breezy. Today should get to 50 and only 30 at night but then snow tomorrow so not sure if there will be much sap to get again. One of the woes of having 3 places when sap runs slow is either having it sit till a decent amount to pickup or picking up peice meal amounts thats done pumping by the time the pump gets going at full speed lol

[darkmachine]

so the weather is perfect here....it's killing me. I have a whole woods thats new on vacuum, typically i would have hung 2 buckets on every tree in this woods, but i decided to only put one tap in each tree on vacuum, i'm super tempted to retap this section, reasoning that it would equivalent to a bucket year. I think I might be able to save my season, the trees have no sign of bud yet....everything is just slowing down right when the weather is good! They delayed school tomorrow, if the cancel i'll be out there i think it's less than 200 taps and it's on flat ground....never done it before....ive' even advised against it....

[220 maple]

Darkmachine,
I’m sure the ones that advised to not move spiles are from the great white north! They do have proof that it not a good idea! The issue in my opinion is tree growth, I have pictures of tapholes that are almost closed by May the 5th, this was a hole that two month prior was producing sap for syrup! In the great white north I’ve been told the holes are closed in a year, 10 months different, so the question is the trees that had two buckets, are they over 18 inches in diameter, if so they could have handled two vacuum taps! Move single tap to other side and make syrup. Maybe dip your spiles in alcohol solution, the old standard in West Virginia for bucket trees was if the tree is as big around as the bucket hang two! Another issue is the trees yours? Your decision what to do with your own tree! Factors against, is some one going to tap them once you evaporate! My trees most likely will not be tapped after I’m gone! At least 95 percent chance they won’t!
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

As far as the spiles go, I'll rotate in clean and just clip the ones I pull and clean them up. All my spiles are stainless so I boil them for about 20 minuites, I have enough to just take a fresh batch out to the woods. The trees are mine,. I'll let you know if it works out.

[220 maple]

I was helping Dr. Rechlin measure some trees in the Circleville area Thursday, the individual who owns the trees had some syrup setting in evaporator, slightly off flavor, his trees started running real hard that day, he cleaned evaporator and started with fresh sap, reported that new sap made excellent syrup! He is setting at 3000 foot elevation! Also been getting low 20s.
Mark220maple

[canaanmaple]

220 maple,
thanks for your and Rechlins enthusiasm about and pushing the mapling in the great state of WV! one of five states with sugar maple as the state tree with so much untapped potential! every maple tree needs a tap!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
Yes hanging with Dr. Rechlin is a blast! However I’ve told him it’s also semi-depressing, he takes me to places where as we’re driving by I’m saying who owns this land!? Which brings me to the time I ticked off the Representative for Vermont on the North American Maple Syrup Council. We had just been approved to join the council at the big meeting at Seven Spring Resort in Pa. I had already met the then President Dave Hamelton, he knew I was the President of the WV Maple Syrup Producers Assoc. right after the vote he invites me to the from of the room to say a few words about West Virginia and are joining the council. So with no prepared words written down I begrudgingly walk up. This is what I said, Thank You for allowing us (West Virginia) to join the Council, we’re a new association, and I’m open to suggestions on how to build membership, and by the way we have more maple trees than the State of Vermont! Of coarse that got a chuckle from the crowd, but the look from the Vermont Representative, it appeared to me he was thinking who the hell do you think you are! As soon as we had a break I rushed up to him and told not to worry half of are trees are on hillside to steep to get to! I don’t know if that smoothed the hard feelings I created, but it is the truth we have more maple trees than them simply because are state is larger! This is true of a lot a states of having more maple trees than Vermont! It’s a way of life in Vermont, have a maple tree tap it! Just not that way here yet but I never give up encouraging people too tap there trees!
Mark220maple

[220 maple]

At my location I’m always trying something to prove or disprove a theory, have not got one drop of good sap since Feb. 21st, syrup was ropey, so tasting it was irrelevant! Ropey is a bacteria issue or so I’ve been told! So yesterday I tap 5 of my old granddaddy trees in a location that nothing was tapped due to logging, two taps per tree into water cooler jugs, should yield me 20 gallons of sap to test sugar content and boil in my small finishing pan. If the issue turns out to be dirty pipelines, surely have missed out on a lot of syrup, if sap is off even though there is no sign of buds on any of the sugar maples then that a different issue. Will let you WV guys know!
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

I pulled in about 300gal today but my Ro gave up some parts are on order and hopefully tomorrow doesn't bury me trying to get it boiled

[220 maple]

Darkmachine,
Good to here your getting good sap, only 5 known producers still in business, you must be over 3000 foot elevation, the other four I know are over 3000 foot, everyone else sap headed south for the Summer!
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

I'm actually in a hole, but the trees are not budded out....but i did have to dump a tank of snot...I cleaned everything really well and so far so good, i'm only at about 1500 feet but we are always 10 degrees or more colder because of the geography between the mountains, can't explain it, but not going to argue with good sap!

[darkmachine]

http://mapletrader.com/community/attachment.php?attachmentid=23069&stc=1sideways pic but back at it, had 300gal to boil on my 2x6 with no ro and warm breeze trying to spoil my sap!

[220 maple]

My little test boil from 5 trees I tapped Tuesday proved that the sap was bad, 2% sugar Crystal clear, no buds visible on any of the trees, buddy syrup , I didn’t believe it would be good because of the daffodils, ground warm enough to get them to bloom then tree roots to warm also! An older producer than me told me years ago when them daffodils start growing you better move fast! The end is near!
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

Mark, Did you sap have an odor?

[canaanmaple]

Dont scare me with the daffodil thing! Ive seen em poppin up here because of that warmer than average February - early march I guess! They dont have flowers but they are poppin out of the ground. Luckily the deep freeze and snows came back the past few weeks to hopefully keep things going! Had really good sap yesterday and made a light tasty amber still. Gonna be 10 degrees tonight and 16 rommorrow night before some runnable temps again. Didn't you say Dr Tim told you that buds reset at 15 degrees or something?
Very few trees show any sort of increase in bud swelling compared to normal winter domancy yet tho, but after Monday there isnt a freeze in the forecast and a couple 60 degree rainy days so could be it here.


My little test boil from 5 trees I tapped Tuesday proved that the sap was bad, 2% sugar Crystal clear, no buds visible on any of the trees, buddy syrup , I didn’t believe it would be good because of the daffodils, ground warm enough to get them to bloom then tree roots to warm also! An older producer than me told me years ago when them daffodils start growing you better move fast! The end is near!
Mark220maple

[220 maple]

Darkmachine
The Crystal Clear 2% sap had no odor! Off smell cooking, then buddy taste!
I’m glad I proved to myself and my friends at FGU that the sap was bad on top of the bacteria that was being produced in the dirty pipelines! If I would have made good syrup then I missed a lot! Bitter Sweet ending to 2023
Mark220maple

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
I believe there was discussion on mapletrader years ago about what temperature it would take to reset the trees, I believe the magic number was 17 degrees, but it may have been a required time it had to stay below 17 degrees that I don’t remember, as far as the daffodils, my old buddy at Corigansville, Maryland, Leo of S&S Maple said when the daffodils are starting to grow the season will soon be over, he has 60 years of experience! I visit him every Summer he connections up north and always knows how much syrup was made and what bulk price is.
Mark220maple

[220 maple]

I visited two producers Saturday at The Highland Maple Festival, both had shutdown when I did, one has 12000 taps made half crop! They both heard of producers retapping, also heard syrup was off flavor! I believe some think it’s metabolism, and it can be fixed! Good luck! Better chance it’s Buddy, there is only one way to fix buddy syrup and that is illegal!
Mark220maple

[canaanmaple]

Today could be the start of the last run up here! Hoping for a big one with that deep freeze of multiple single digit nights and ground frozen solid again!
A week of no freezing with a few days in the 60s (although rainy 60) but still....
Ill keep going as long as it does and doesn't have off buddy flavor....

[canaanmaple]

wow, what a run that was! got 25% of my crop this past week, the sugar was boosted too. 15" snow, multiple days of single digits is just what the doctor ordered.
I did retap (new holes) on a bunch of the the old big sugars that had really shut down because of old drops and that mild late february.... I know it's taboo for some, but a local bigger producer did the same apparently so at least I have company in my crimes :) The location will all new drops never declined, so I figured the old drops were the culprit in shutting down the flow. A great lesson year in the importance of sanitation of drop lines!

I've heard the peepers 3 nights now, so the end has got to be near. Syrup started getting real dark last two boils, and nitre changing composition, but definitley not buddy. There are 3 nights coming up in upper 20's but in my expierience thats not really enough to juice em up again like a multi-day freeze that freezes the ground. Guess Ill keep going as long as the good lord sends me sap and it tastes good...

[DrTimPerkins]

...also heard syrup was off flavor! I believe some think it’s metabolism, and it can be fixed! Good luck! Better chance it’s Buddy, there is only one way to fix buddy syrup and that is illegal!

Yes, most likely buddy at this stage of the season for them. Metabolism more frequently happens early-mid season. And yes...while you might decrease the intensity of the buddy off-flavor through diluting and reboiling, it tends to come back after a little while. And yes...other ways to fix it are illegal.

[220 maple]

I heard many stories of people retapping, maybe some bumping holes, all basically a waste of time! When daffodils bloom good syrup season is over, peep frogs is the warning, earth worms crawling and daffodils in bloom! Let it go! But what do I know! Only been making for the 25th season!
Mark220maple

[DrTimPerkins]

Only been making for the 25th season!

Yeah Mark...I had you figured for a newbie. :lol:

Stopped by my uncle's place (formerly my grandfather's farm) where I helped during sugaring season as a kid (lugging buckets or wood). Found my initials that I'd carved into the sugarhouse walls back in the early-1970s. Way preferred sugaring to milking or haying for sure.

[DrTimPerkins]

I heard many stories of people retapping, maybe some bumping holes, all basically a waste of time!

Not only a waste of time, but really bad for the trees. At some point it is time to hang up the tapping hammer for the season.

[canaanmaple]

I heard many stories of people retapping, maybe some bumping holes, all basically a waste of time! When daffodils bloom good syrup season is over, peep frogs is the warning, earth worms crawling and daffodils in bloom! Let it go! But what do I know! Only been making for the 25th season!
Mark220maple

Mark, I thought you were the one telling me not to hang it up because there are a couple freezing nights with some white stuff coming up! :) I did still make good syrup sunday what I called the final boil. Dark that finally had that traditional "maple flavor". Definitely not buddy. I've made that before and been terrified ever since!

[220 maple]

CanaanMaple,
My previous comment was in reference to us low landers that got are last good sap on 2/21/23! Keep rolling I’m pulling for you to survive too 4/1/23! Your close, hopefully the gang at SpruceKnob Maple makes it to April, if I remember correctly out of the last 10 years they have made good syrup in April 8 of them, if they make it this year, I only made edible syrup in April one time in the last 25! Actually made it to April one other time! Buddy Syrup! Doubt I ever do that again with the heat we’re dealing with.
Mark220maple

[DrTimPerkins]

How was the season overall in WV this spring?

[canaanmaple]

How was the season overall in WV this spring?

I should let Mark answer this, but to my understanding, one of the worst ever for the majority of the state. Strong La Nina wreaked havoc.
I am in the extreme minority and lucky, being up in the highlands where the ski areas and lake-effect snow is. We had the lowest snowfall on record for the season here (62"), and also one of the warmest Februarys since the 1950s. Bad for skiing, but survivable for maple. Everywhere else is at least 10 - 15 degrees warmer and dont think it even froze in Feb for them?? The biggest producer in the state (Spruce Knob Maple) ... 18,000 taps... happens to be up this way also and did very well this year. I think all the other highland producers are now done also as of last weekend.

[220 maple]

Dr.Tim,
CanaanMaple pretty well described West Virginia production, basically if you was over 3000 foot elevation, except for one producer in the 1500 range the sap went bad by February 21st, I did a test boil from 5 trees that wasn’t tapped early, they set in a low area with extreme north face exposure,most certainly my coldest trees because cold air sinks, just started to get afternoon sun due to sun angle gain. That sap was buddy!
Now my question to you? Do you have daffodils? Some people call them Easter Lily’s? If so can you make good syrup after they have bloomed? I personally don’t think we can! Ground has got too warm therefore the minerals that cause buddy syrup has already been transferred to the tree even though it appears there is no buds on the trees.
Mark220maple

[DrTimPerkins]

Do you have daffodils? Some people call them Easter Lily’s? If so can you make good syrup after they have bloomed? I personally don’t think we can! Ground has got too warm therefore the minerals that cause buddy syrup has already been transferred to the tree even though it appears there is no buds on the trees.

Daffodils do grow around here, but typically not in the woods. None out yet by a long shot. We might start to see daffodils poking out of the ground in warm spots (next to the house) during late sugaring season, but they typically aren't blooming by that point. Peepers (more correctly, tree frogs) seem to be a better indicator for us. Sometimes they're a few days early, sometimes a few days late -- but generally pretty close.

Buddy and metabolism are NOT caused by minerals coming from the ground in the spring. They are both caused (for different reasons) by amino acids released by the trees into the sap stream. Buddy is associated with the activation of buds when the temperatures start to warm. Metabolism is "probably" from residual amino acids from the previous fall that didn't get flushed out sufficiently. Different types of amino acids cause these off-flavors. High nitrogen content seems to be associated with metabolism to some degree. Some similarities, but not exactly the same.

[darkmachine]

How was the season overall in WV this spring? It was sad for us, we are at about 1500ft, our season was longer than many in our area. Typically we get about 50% of our sap from buckets. This season I changed over our normal flat land bucket area to vacuum and i'm glad i did because the weather was hard on the buckets, only produced about 200 gallons of sap on 100 buckets or the whole month they hung...very few ran well. On a normal season our trees would run 12 quart buckets over in 24hrs. This year the warm weather just shut them down.

I always aim for 100 gallons of syrup, with basically no buckets I came up well short of that. This year made me a true believer that vacuum is the future for this camp, tap early, leave the pump on 24/7 going forward. I'll be putting up as much tubing as i can before next season, not saying i won't hang buckets in the future, but the weather would have to be perfect.

[220 maple]

The last producer standing made syrup on the 30th per my sources, though there is a good freeze in the forecast for tonight mid 20s don’t know if they make it! Hope they do I believe that would be 7 or 8 times out of the last 10 years good syrup made in April, But with climate change I guess syrup production this far South is good news. My location is no more than a 45 minute drive away, last good sap I got was on Feb 21st. Maybe 15 air miles! Elevation differences is 1100ft vs 3300ft camp location, their trees are above them up to 4200 feet
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

Mark,
I was up to see Buck Barb last week. Sad to see his operation shut down. He just had heart surgery, and seems to be recovering well. I wanted to rent his filter press, but since he wouldn't rent it, i had to buy it. Not sure what other equipment he is parting with, I imagine cash is king. I think his brother still made syrup this year at their uncles camp down the road, but those 4k taps Buck had have been idle for at least 3 years. He mentioned lots of people wanted to lease or work out a deal to use the trees, but he said he knew he couldn't stay out of their business if they were up there, lol. Probably all of us are a little like that. The good thing is the filter press solved the sugar sand issues i was having. Time to start planning for next year!

[220 maple]

Darkmachine,
Yes my old buddy Buck has retired, I tracked him down at the Wednesday auction at Moorefield a week ago, he had lost my number. His evaporator which would probably have been the right size for camp? Arch already sold, pans not the best he said, probably scorched, I definitely need to upgrade, if you have never had a filter press, hopefully with in a couple of uses you’ll say why didn’t I have one sooner, I don’t know what brand or size he had, I know one thing that it not easy learning how much filter aid to use! After many years we finally figured that out, now a piece of cake to filter syrup the way I do it from a finishing pan. I mentioned to him the same thought, lease the sugarbush, exact same comment, he would never be able to stay out of the sugar camp therefore it would be the end for him!
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

It's a 7" full press made my leader, right now it has a gear pump but I may switch it to air in the future, but it's magic just the way it is. I did take a look at the flue pan he had, it's in nice shape on the outside, it's a shame it was scorched, but with some pan acid I'm sure it would still make good syrup. It's 4 foot wide, too big for my operation, with my ro I'm only boiling a few hours a day on my 2x6. He still had the hoods too RO, vacuum pump, some tanks and releaser. I was having a terrible time with sediment using my 2cone filter. I filtered about 15 gallons the other day with the press before It was full, I followed leaders instructions for DE. The syrup was just really dirty for some reason. I had lots of sugar sand in the plumbing between the front and back pans. I even cleaned half way through and it was still bad, interesting to see how it changes from year to year. If I had a heated draw off tank in the future I'd love to streamline my filtering and bottling, I wonder if that would qualify for an energy conservation grant, lol. Something to think about.

[canaanmaple]

Ended my season making some delicious dark on 3/26. Biggest season yet for me since I started in 2018! Even though we got the least amount of snow in record since the 50s,
and the warmest mean temp for Feb, the maple season was as long as all mine have been so far. 6 weeks. Tapped on 2/10 and started collecting 2/12. Log book has 21 pickups from 2/12 - 3/26. (more than I thought but things get so routine after a while you dont notice I guess)

360 taps (3 different woods)
8695 gallons sap
24 gal sap per tap.
average sugar 1.7
packed all my syrup heavy, so no accurate amount of gallons, but 150 estimated

I think a bigger RO or evaporator would help! Maybe just a bigger RO.... a 600 gallon sap day is 10 hours total for me with a 180gph RO and custom cdl 2x4!

[220 maple]

WV Producers meeting this weekend May 19th 20th
Kick off event with Dr. Abby Thursday evening Podcast/Zoom on one of her research projects
Friday, Tubing Sanitation Workshop morning session
3/16 tubing workshop at a producer’s sugarbush
Saturday, Business Meeting, Banquet and awards for syrup and value added product entries
Hope to see you there!
Mark220maple

[darkmachine]

wish i could go! hopefully some of the sessions get posted online.

[220 maple]

Webinar with Dr. Abby can be viewed anytime, her research on Red Maples