January Thaw

[Swingpure]

I looked at the weather for Burlington Vermont and there looks to be an extended January thaw. I am just wondering if it would be good for early season tapping and how many people are thinking of taking advantage of it?

If I had my base stack and pan, I would be half tempted to do some early season tapping.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/0abn8WbP_08BJT5ExdqDUVYVw

22670

[bigschuss]

Not a chance. Can't go chasing early January temperatures when you're still 2 months out from your average tapping date. Mid Feb. thaw? Different story. But not early January. Not for me at least.

[Swingpure]

Not a chance. Can't go chasing early January temperatures when you're still 2 months out from your average tapping date. Mid Feb. thaw? Different story. But not early January. Not for me at least.

For the operations that tap all winter, this must be a bonus period of time.

[bigschuss]

For the operations that tap all winter, this must be a bonus period of time.

There are operations that tap all winter? I've never heard of this.

[Swingpure]

There are operations that tap all winter? I've never heard of this.

I read a couple articles about it, here is one from Maple News: https://www.themaplenews.com/video/vermont-sugarmakers-boil-in-early-december/120/

[bigschuss]

I read a couple articles about it, here is one from Maple News: https://www.themaplenews.com/video/vermont-sugarmakers-boil-in-early-december/120/

Interesting. Thanks for that link. Sounds like this will only work if you're on vacuum...and then you never turn it off for those 5 months or else the tap holes will close.

Are you on vacuum?

[Andy VT]

Whatever it is, your number of taps has gotta be 5 digits minimum to even think about it!

[Swingpure]

Interesting. Thanks for that link. Sounds like this will only work if you're on vacuum...and then you never turn it off for those 5 months or else the tap holes will close.

Are you on vacuum?


I am not on vacuum. I was only thinking of experimenting on some extra drops I added for experimental reasons. The original plan was to tap them a little early. Co-incidentally the tubing was a different colour (green) than the rest of my tubing (blue), but the tree that the hyrdo crew brought down, took all of that experimental tubing down with it, so the thought of giving it a try was erased.

[bigschuss]

I am not on vacuum. I was only thinking of experimenting on some extra drops I added for experimental reasons. The original plan was to tap them a little early. Co-incidentally the tubing was a different colour (green) than the rest of my tubing (blue), but the tree that the hyrdo crew brought down, took all of that experimental tubing down with it, so the thought of giving it a try was erased.

So yes, then I go back to my original thought. If you're not on vacuum and tap in early January your holes will be closed by mid-February. I do not know of any big producers who tap in December or January. And like Andy said, unless you're doing 10,000 taps and can capitalize on a few days of flow in January, probably not worth it to guys like you and me.

[Andy VT]

Nothing wrong with playing around for scientific/fun reasons. Admittedly, that's why I'm doing maple anyway. Otherwise I'd buy my entire year's worth of syrup, for well under 100 bucks and be all set! This past season (2022) I tried a couple taps around February 10 when it warmed up and did get a little bit of sap, but it wasn't much, and I was satisfied to never bother tapping early again. Of course that was just with tubing drops into buckets.

Though not as much as 2022, I suspect getting the correct timing for bucket tapping will still be my biggest stressor for the 2023 season!

[bigschuss]

Nothing wrong with playing around for scientific/fun reasons. Admittedly, that's why I'm doing maple anyway. Otherwise I'd buy my entire year's worth of syrup, for well under 100 bucks and be all set! This past season (2022) I tried a couple taps around February 10 when it warmed up and did get a little bit of sap, but it wasn't much, and I was satisfied to never bother tapping early again. Of course that was just with tubing drops into buckets.

Though not as much as 2022, I suspect getting the correct timing for bucket tapping will still be my biggest stressor for the 2023 season!

Agree. I was just responding to the question..."would it be good for early season tapping?" knowing the OP was fairly new to this. Yes, the sap will run if temps. are conducive to sap flow...Nov., Dec., or early January. Old news there. But almost nobody taps then though because it's not worth the few days of sap flow. Didn't want to see him go and tap his trees in January chasing a mild spell only to have his trees all dry up before the season actually began.

Sounds like you had the exact experience to confirm that...just not worth it. Go with time tested and proven techniques. Don't go reinventing the wheel. And certainly don't stress about any of this as hobbyists, which the 3 of us are. It's easy to overthink all of this. But in the end, we're just boiling water.

[maple flats]

Back about 10 yrs ago, my 3 helpers were all in college and their break ended on or about Jan 20 or so. I started on Jan 2 and as soon as repairs were done we started tapping with the hope it would be completed before my help went back to school. Most years we made it, but sap rarely flowed much before late Feb.

[Andy VT]

Dave Klish: I will say my early February tapping experiment, while it didn't gain me much, didn't seem to hurt much either. My early taps didn't give out any earlier in the season than my later February taps. The difference was only 10 days, so that might be one reason.

Agreed on all counts bigschuss! As hobbyists it seems we have to take turns dreaming and encouraging each other to try things and learn, and talking each other back onto the ground. I have worn both hats in the same thread, and occasionally in the same post. :lol:
You've been at it much longer than Gary and I so we do look to you and several others to keep us on or near the ground!

[Swingpure]

I tapped 17 trees today. Long story on My plan 2022/23 thread.

[maple flats]

Dave Klish: I will say my early February tapping experiment, while it didn't gain me much, didn't seem to hurt much either. My early taps didn't give out any earlier in the season than my later February taps. The difference was only 10 days, so that might be one reason.

Agreed on all counts bigschuss! As hobbyists it seems we have to take turns dreaming and encouraging each other to try things and learn, and talking each other back onto the ground. I have worn both hats in the same thread, and occasionally in the same post. :lol:
You've been at it much longer than Gary and I so we do look to you and several others to keep us on or near the ground!
While I was at it longer, not really much longer. I did make some syrup back in the 1970-80's, just up to 9 taps max. I didn't get the "bug" until after I sold my contracting business and started driving school bus for something to do. I decided to make syrup in 2003 and added more taps every year until I had 1320 taps. During this time I attended every winter conference (in Verona, NY) and attended every seminar I could fit in. Those mostly are where I learned how to make syrup. After each conference, I referred to my notes from each seminar and decided which I wanted to incorporate into my operation. After a while I tried some experiments of my own, most failed, some did fairly well.
Along about that time, Chris (the original owner of this great forum asked if I'd be willing to be a moderator and after some coaxing I agreed, but I really felt I had little to contribute)
Along the way, I learned enough to help other, mostly hobbyists, I had very little to offer long time producers. My main asset is that, from seminars I've attended I can recall just enough to get into the conversation and things grow from there.
Back to when I tapped and was fully tapped by Jan 20, I can't recall it ever hurt me because I was too early. My taps never dried up before the sap season was over. Much of that was because I at that time was on 100% tubing, only 2-3 buckets to show visitors and those buckets were generally tapped 1-2 weeks before Maple Weekend.

[buckeye gold]

Loving in southern Ohio we have a lot of swings in our weather pattern that are condusive to sap flow. I have early tapped for years (probably around 10 ). I have experimented with everything from very early to slightly early. Maple News even done a profile on me a few years back (https://www.themaplenews.com/story/season-update-1-early-tappers-jump-the-season-but-most-sugarmakers-prepping-/343/ ). My conclusions are that very early tapping (more than 6 weeks prior to traditional dates) is not worth the effort. However, tapping 4-6 weeks early to hit early sap flows has been moderatly productive to me and actually saved my season a couple years. With that said, I have also concluded that these taps will suffer reduced flow during the peak of season and will stop flowing sooner. I am aboout to set my 50 early taps within a couple days, for this warm up. After all my trials of different approaches here is my final conclusion:

Tapping 4 to 6 weeks before traditional dates can be moderately productive. You will see lower sugar content and less sap. I no longer risk my primary bush to early tapping! I have two laterals in a seperate woods that get early tapped. Last year I had 160 taps total and 50 of those were tapped early and 110 during my traditional dates. I do not recommend tapping all your taps early on gravity or buckets. I am all 3/16" gravity and natural vaccum. You will do a lot more work and end up in the same place you will be by waiting. Now if you have extra trees, then tap them and get you some bonus syrup, but move on to your regular taps during regular time.

Just my 2 cents

[CanterburyMaple]

I'm still pretty new to the maple thing, this being my 4th season. I, like SwingPure, have looked at the 10-14 day forecast and the broader forecast of a warm January, and decided to start tapping my trees today. I have about 40 on my property and do another 40 of neighbors. I also need to wrap up my season early-mid March for family reasons, so for me it seemed like the stars alined to tap early. And i got some new maple equipment for Christmas, so my impatience to use it is the final straw to get going :)

[Swingpure]

I'm still pretty new to the maple thing, this being my 4th season. I, like SwingPure, have looked at the 10-14 day forecast and the broader forecast of a warm January, and decided to start tapping my trees today. I have about 40 on my property and do another 40 of neighbors. I also need to wrap up my season early-mid March for family reasons, so for me it seemed like the stars alined to tap early. And i got some new maple equipment for Christmas, so my impatience to use it is the final straw to get going :)

Personally I say great.

Today I checked to see if the sap was flowing and it had not started yet. It reached 5° C / 41° F, but it was cloudy for most of the day. Tomorrow will be 8° / 46° F and I am hoping it might run.

It was fun and exciting just checking, and if the sap doesn’t run, it doesn’t run, and if it does, bonus. Being retired and the lake not frozen enough yet for ice fishing, I have time to boil if I do get any. These are not my main lines and it is just fun doing it.

I am a bass fisherman and every year I try to learn a different technique or two and work at it to be good at it, just to expand my abilities. I see trying this is just the same as doing that. I will get to learn new things about sugaring, whether this adventure is successful or not.

As they say in the Shawshank Redemption: “Get busy living or get busy dying”.

Good luck with your tapping!

[Swingpure]

I went out at 11:30 pm and the sap is running! We will see in the morning just how much.

[David Wayne]

I normally tap 2nd week of Feb. Ohio weather is forecast to be just freezing or a little below overnight to mid 40s daytime, for the next 2 weeks.
As a hobby tapper I am thinking I should be getting ready. Maybe I should have already been ready and be tapping now.

David

[berkshires]

If you are on vacuum, fine. But my experience on buckets has been unequivocally bad when I tapped more than a week or two early. I can share details if anyone wants.

Gabe

[Swingpure]

Avoiding the discussion of whether tapping for thaws is ultimately good or bad for your yields, because I have not experienced the after affects yet, I have found it fun having tapped during the Christmas break and ultimately making syrup. The syrup tastes great.

But for back yarders, I think one decision maker, is how you are going to evaporate the sap. I think taking advantage of the small windows best aligns itself with evaporators with steam pans, small flat pans and pots on turkey fryers, as opposed to setups where you have to sweeten a pan. You may not get enough volumes, unless you go all in on the tapping, to sweeten the pan and continue the process. I know my last year’s setup with steam pans would have been ideal for dealing with small and unpredictable volumes of sap.

I know for this past 5 days or so for me, based on the first days run and the extended forecast, I thought I would end up with a 100 gallons of sap, for this week long mild spell, however reality has been the temperature has not fallen below freezing as forecasted, and the sap flows other than 20 gallons the first day have been more like 4 gallons per day or less.

Sometime this spring my divided pan will arrive. Would I have made the decision to tap even with the full expected 100 gallons of sap, the answer would have been no. To turn that into a possible yes, I would have had to go all in and tap all of my trees to get the volumes required to satisfy the needs of a pan that needs to be sweeten. Based on last year’s steam pans the answer would be yes and maybe.

The words possible and maybe are used because I do not have any personal experience with how it will ultimately affect yields. I have read that it has very limited negative effects on the yield, but then you have posters with personal experience that it has negative effects.

All I know for sure, is this tapping experience has been fun, and the limited number of taps I have installed will be ready and in place if there is another thaw in January or February and will be ready for when the actual spring flows start.

I will install all of my taps a week prior to the weather forecasting that the spring run will start.

[CanterburyMaple]

I agree that the key aspect most in play for the backyarder is fun (followed by experimentation?) for tapping early. I got a1,000 feet of 5/16" tubing, T's, check-valve spouts, and a 2-handed tubing tool for christmas and I had a blast this past weekend putting up 3 lines with 5-7 trees on each. Learned a lot :) Not much sap from those trees yet as they're smaller and in the shaded woods, but I did another 10 trees on drops into buckets, and got about 7 gallons of sap all together, boiled for an hour on my 3-pan block evaporator (some modifications made I wanted to try out) and made a pint of syrup last night. Brix was 1.5% for me, which is similar to the 2021 season as I'm all reds and I'm expecting this past summer's drought is going to hurt sugar content. I can't handle larger flows of sap right now, as I found my RO in dis-repair over the weekend and have replacement parts ordered and on the way. Ah the life of a sugarer! But kind of glad i'm doing this now instead of in February when sap is really running here in southern Maine.

On how long tap holes last, I'm always interested in hearing others' experience as I'm still new to all this. I've done some fall tapping in the past of a few trees so I can boil on Thanksgiving and Christmas as weather allows (usually inside on the stove), and I've been surprised that most of those trees were still giving sap into March. I assume the cold temperatures December-January keep the bacteria/microbe growth down for this to be the case? I'm very interested to see what my experience is with tapping 30 trees early. I'll tap the rest of the 40 trees around the neighborhood as more reliably warm weather peaks its head into the 14-day forecast.

[CanterburyMaple]

Just happened to stumble on this article: https://www.themaplenews.com/story/early-spout-deployment-okd-by-proctor-researchers/441/. SOunds like this experiment shows that the sanitation of spouts (and drops) is key, not so much the timing. But then again, personal experience is personal experience! I'm still eager to see how things play out for me with my early tapping.

[DrTimPerkins]

Lots of information available on this subject for northern (VT/NY) areas.

https://mapleresearch.org/pub/m0608tappingtiming/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/wildtaptiming-2/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/timing0921/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/vt20earlytap/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/4221ear/
https://mapleresearch.org/pub/wound0621/

Short answer is, if you use really good drop/spout sanitation practices your tapholes will stay productive longer If you use tubing with vacuum, your tapholes will stay productive longer. In general on gravity (buckets, bags, gravity tubing), tapholes are good for 6-8 wks (with good sanitation). With good sanitation and vacuum, tapholes will go 8-12+ weeks.

As far as when to tap...depends on a lot of things: how many taps you have, how fast you can tap them, weather forecast, etc.

Lastly, I try not to worry too much about things I can't control -- like the weather.

[berkshires]

I have no problem with anyone tapping early for fun, or for any other reason (like a vacation in March, a baby arriving, whatever). I don't want anyone to think I'm arguing against early tapping for any good reason. Just pointing out that if you're on buckets/gravity - yeah, you should expect 6-8 potentially productive weeks, like Dr. Tim says. The key is lining up the potentially productive window of your tapholes with the most productive weather window. And if that time winds up being mostly not productive due to early tapping, you are going to lose production.

And it's not just a matter of high and low temperatures during your 6 to 8 weeks. That's something I didn't realize when I was first starting out. A day of 45 degrees high in January is not the same as a day of 45 degrees high in March. A warm day in the middle of the winter will do just as much to close a taphole, but will produce less sap. This is due to a variety of things, including:
- Colder nights means the trunk is a big block of very cold ice. 45 degrees just isn't going to touch it.
- Frozen ground means there's just not much water available to move up and down the trunk
- Shorter days and longer nights means less time warming and more time cooling, even if high and low temps are the same.
- Snow around the trunk keeps the base of the trunk frozen, not allowing sap movement.

So you can have what looks on paper like a great run of days in the forecast, tap your trees, and all you'll have to show for it is a nice dried out hole when the real runs come.

That said, it's a roll of the dice, and you can always get lucky. Sometimes the season ends early, and you'll be laughing at all the suckers who waited for the normal tapping time, where you got a bit more early sap.

Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. :)

Gabe

[Swingpure]

I have no problem with anyone tapping early for fun, or for any other reason (like a vacation in March, a baby arriving, whatever). I don't want anyone to think I'm arguing against early tapping for any good reason. Just pointing out that if you're on buckets/gravity - yeah, you should expect 6-8 potentially productive weeks, like Dr. Tim says. The key is lining up the potentially productive window of your tapholes with the most productive weather window. And if that time winds up being mostly not productive due to early tapping, you are going to lose production.

And it's not just a matter of high and low temperatures during your 6 to 8 weeks. That's something I didn't realize when I was first starting out. A day of 45 degrees high in January is not the same as a day of 45 degrees high in March. A warm day in the middle of the winter will do just as much to close a taphole, but will produce less sap. This is due to a variety of things, including:
- Colder nights means the trunk is a big block of very cold ice. 45 degrees just isn't going to touch it.
- Frozen ground means there's just not much water available to move up and down the trunk
- Shorter days and longer nights means less time warming and more time cooling, even if high and low temps are the same.
- Snow around the trunk keeps the base of the trunk frozen, not allowing sap movement.

So you can have what looks on paper like a great run of days in the forecast, tap your trees, and all you'll have to show for it is a nice dried out hole when the real runs come.

That said, it's a roll of the dice, and you can always get lucky. Sometimes the season ends early, and you'll be laughing at all the suckers who waited for the normal tapping time, where you got a bit more early sap.

Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. :)

Gabe

My impression from what I have read, and I could be wrong, is that if you tap in the middle of the winter, that the 6 to 8 week clock does not necessarily start like it does in the spring, because the cold temperatures, slows or stops any microbial growth during the winter.

I do agree that tapping in the winter is different than tapping in the spring and you will not get the same results for a given temperature because as you say the trunk and ground are much more frozen during the winter.

I also agree that the weather forecast may not pan out. When I decided to tap, during the Christmas holidays, it looked like I had 7 consecutive days where the temperature at night dropped below freezing and above freezing during the day, with three days looking like I could have great flows. It turned out only two nights dropped below freezing and I only had one day of relatively good flows.

It was still fun.

I will see this spring if it has affected my yields from those lines.

Something that just occurred to me, if the clock has started and the tap holes have started to close with the Spring run starts, could you not drill another hole in the tree and have a fresh hole?

[bigschuss]

Something that just occurred to me, if the clock has started and the tap holes have started to close with the Spring run starts, could you not drill another hole in the tree and have a fresh hole?

Of course you could. But depending on the size of your trees, is that healthy and sustainable? There is plenty of literature out there with recommended tap counts based on tree size. Adding a second tap to a tree under a certain size is not considered a best practice.

It's great that you're having fun with your grandkids and already made some syrup. As a hobbyists, you're probably not too concerned with maximizing your yields...more about having fun. I'm in the same exact boat. I could care less about maximizing my yields, adding more trees, making my life miserable stressing about the weather, sap runs, etc. I just like making syrup with my friends and family and having a few beers during a boil. But I do like to be as efficient as I possibly can, maximizing both my time and my energy. And for me, that means using time-tested and proven best practices.

[David Wayne]

I am a hobby syrup maker and use bags rather than tubing and vacuume. Will I lengthen my tap time if I add a length of tubing that reaches the bottom of the bag
so the tap is not subject to the air except for a short time after dumping. With that I could start changing over to check valve taps.

David

[Super Sapper]

I am a hobby syrup maker and use bags rather than tubing and vacuume. Will I lengthen my tap time if I add a length of tubing that reaches the bottom of the bag
so the tap is not subject to the air except for a short time after dumping. With that I could start changing over to check valve taps.

David
You do not want the end of the tube gong into the sap. You will draw sap back up through the line into the tree when it freezes and introduce bacteria that will hasten the closing of the tap hole.

[David Wayne]

Is that also true if I use check valve taps?

[DrTimPerkins]

I have no problem with anyone tapping early for fun, or for any other reason (like a vacation in March, a baby arriving, whatever). I don't want anyone to think I'm arguing against early tapping for any good reason. Just pointing out that if you're on buckets/gravity - yeah, you should expect 6-8 potentially productive weeks, like Dr. Tim says. The key is lining up the potentially productive window of your tapholes with the most productive weather window. And if that time winds up being mostly not productive due to early tapping, you are going to lose production.

And it's not just a matter of high and low temperatures during your 6 to 8 weeks. That's something I didn't realize when I was first starting out. A day of 45 degrees high in January is not the same as a day of 45 degrees high in March. A warm day in the middle of the winter will do just as much to close a taphole, but will produce less sap. This is due to a variety of things, including:
- Colder nights means the trunk is a big block of very cold ice. 45 degrees just isn't going to touch it.
- Frozen ground means there's just not much water available to move up and down the trunk
- Shorter days and longer nights means less time warming and more time cooling, even if high and low temps are the same.
- Snow around the trunk keeps the base of the trunk frozen, not allowing sap movement.

So you can have what looks on paper like a great run of days in the forecast, tap your trees, and all you'll have to show for it is a nice dried out hole when the real runs come.

That said, it's a roll of the dice, and you can always get lucky. Sometimes the season ends early, and you'll be laughing at all the suckers who waited for the normal tapping time, where you got a bit more early sap.

Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. :)

Gabe

Excellent explanation. Well done.

Taphole rejuvenation strategies (2nd taphole, reaming, drilling a taphole deeper, "bumping") are NOT recommended practices. Research has shown that these will produce a wound substantially larger than the original wound, and in most cases are not sustainable. https://mapleresearch.org/pub/wound0621/

[Andy VT]

[in reference to David Wayne's inquiry]:
I wonder if the use of a check valve spout would eliminate the reason to use a tubing extender for the goal of isolating the tap hole from atmosphere.
However, I also wonder if a check valve spout would work well in this situation.
I don't know why it wouldn't... the only thing I can think of is whether sap flow having to overcome the spring tension might restrict things in a spout to bucket setup.
If only we knew someone who knew a lot about these CV spouts.
Oh, hi Dr. Tim!
I've been meaning to ask you anyway.
Any thoughts on using CV spouts for buckets or bags? I assume Proctor didn't study this, but by now I'll bet someone has tried it and reported back.
Or, has anyone else on here experimented with it?

It seems like there could be at least a possibility that buckets have even more to gain, percentage-wise, from CV spouts than a tubing system would. But I could just as easily talk myself into thinking it would be negligible or even detrimental.

I did once ask Leader about it on their website, and they enthusiastically said it would be a great idea (specifically for tubing drops into buckets in the case of that question), but I was never sure if the person who answered my question really knew the real answer. Why wouldn't they want to sell me some spouts?

[DrTimPerkins]

My impression from what I have read, and I could be wrong, is that if you tap in the middle of the winter, that the 6 to 8 week clock does not necessarily start like it does in the spring, because the cold temperatures, slows or stops any microbial growth during the winter.

With cold weather the window may be lengthened somewhat, and even more so if you have the vacuum running any time it is going to be warm and the tree thaw even a little bit, but for the most part once you tap, the clock starts (it may just run a bit more slowly, but if it's cold then you're not getting any sap) and you can't reset it back to zero.


I do agree that tapping in the winter is different than tapping in the spring and you will not get the same results for a given temperature because as you say the trunk and ground are much more frozen during the winter.

Gabe (berkshires) gave a good description of many of the issues with tapping too early.


I also agree that the weather forecast may not pan out. When I decided to tap, during the Christmas holidays, it looked like I had 7 consecutive days where the temperature at night dropped below freezing and above freezing during the day, with three days looking like I could have great flows. It turned out only two nights dropped below freezing and I only had one day of relatively good flows.

In general, the forecast will not turn out to be correct, especially as you get further out (in time). A long-range forecast is essentially an educated guess. It is not something that is terribly useful for forecasting when the sap will run.


I will see this spring if it has affected my yields from those lines.

You may not be able to tell well. Sap may still flow from the early tapholes, but it'll be slower than from fresh tapholes.


Something that just occurred to me, if the clock has started and the tap holes have started to close with the Spring run starts, could you not drill another hole in the tree and have a fresh hole?

Not a good idea. That strategy basically doubles the wounding to the tree. Other taphole rejuvenation strategies also produce considerable amounts of internal staining. https://mapleresearch.org/pub/wound0621/

[berkshires]

My impression from what I have read, and I could be wrong, is that if you tap in the middle of the winter, that the 6 to 8 week clock does not necessarily start like it does in the spring, because the cold temperatures, slows or stops any microbial growth during the winter.

Yes, that's my impression, too (that it slows, not stops). But the thing to remember is that a warm sunny day in mid winter will have the exact same effect to close the taphole, but much less effect to produce sap. So a warm day in mid-winter is actually a lose-lose proposition when you compare it to the same warm day in spring: You get the same microbial growth, but less sap.

The other thing I discovered about early tapping into buckets (again, I suspect this doesn't affect the big guys who are running lines underground to big holding tanks) is the big pain in the *** of dealing with hard frozen buckets. In mid-winter the average temp is well below freezing, and you often have really cold nights. This leads to solid ice in the buckets that never thaws. For folks like me who only collect once a week in early season when it's still cold, there's nothing worse than going to collect a whole bunch of full buckets that are all frozen totally solid. You then have no good options. Either you put blocks of ice on your evaporator, or you put them in big collection drums, put them in the garage, and wait a week for enough to come out of them to be worth boiling. Big PITA.

If I wait until my normal tapping season, I might get one such weekend if I'm unlucky, but more likely I get a partially frozen buckets, where I get to chuck the ice and have concentrated sap without the trouble of an RO.

Like Bigschuss, this is just fun for me - it's not my livelihood, so if taps are inefficient it won't have any dire consequences. But I admit I'm kind of a nerd about these things, and I do like to keep track of all my stats, and I'm proud if I have a good season because I made the right choices. Which is not to say I'm not still learning. I make a lot of mistakes, but I try not to make the same ones too many times, LOL!

GO

[Swingpure]

Well this will be interesting. I tapped on December 27, 8 weeks takes me to February 21 and likely my sap will not be running until March 7th which will be 10 weeks from when I tapped. Potentially the sap holes could be closed by the time the sap starts running.

We will see. I kept good stats last year on how many gallons/tap I got from each line and groups of buckets. We will see if there is a dramatic fall off or not.

Fortunately I still have 141 taps untouched, so I will have plenty of sap. 74 of those are on the steep hill that the sap should be flowing so hard I should be able to hear it from a block away. 😜

For me it was an experiment and fun and a learning experience. If it turns out there is a dramatic drop off I still might do it again, just setting aside those taps as early season taps. Most years here we do not get enough of a mild spell to tap mid winter, so it is not really an issue.

The one big lesson I learnt is to make sure I have enough boiling power (btu’s) to minimize the boiling time. Getting a divided pan, I cannot ever seeing boiling on the divided pan as I would not have the volumes to justify it, but rather I would purchase a turkey fryer to enable faster boiling.

When asking about tapping the tree again, I sort of knew the answer, but it just made curious if the original tap hole had closed on me, could you tap it again and the clear answer is no for the health of the tree.

I will come back to this thread after the Spring Sap season and report on my results.

[220 maple]

Food for thought! Yes there is big guys tapping early, The small timers at Island Pond that change their name every other year, can’t remember their first name previously The Maple Guild, now Sap Jack, supposedly 750000 taps, how many person tapping crew? You would want to open them right before they start running strong? I visited Branon Family Maple 2010 they had 72000 taps that spring, I asked when they started, answer Jan. 3rd, I asked what they did with sap if it thawed before the season is supposed to begin, Young man said it did in middle of January for three days, made 50 barrels! I was there on April 14th they was still boiling, had just crossed over 23000 gallons and even though the sap was getting squirrelly (Vermont term) they was pretty sure they could make it another week. Of coarse being a guy that asks a lot of questions, I wanted to know how they keep the taps running? Answer nothing! I said you can tell me I make syrup, nothing! Then I asked the right question! What was the warmest day they had since January 3rd, answer, one day it got to 50 degrees.
That is why you can have a twelve week season
Mark 220 Maple

[Gord]

Nothing wrong with playing around for scientific/fun reasons. Admittedly, that's why I'm doing maple anyway. Otherwise I'd buy my entire year's worth of syrup, for well under 100 bucks and be all set! This past season (2022) I tried a couple taps around February 10 when it warmed up and did get a little bit of sap, but it wasn't much, and I was satisfied to never bother tapping early again. Of course that was just with tubing drops into buckets.

Though not as much as 2022, I suspect getting the correct timing for bucket tapping will still be my biggest stressor for the 2023 season!

Everything Andy said! I only make around 5 gallons of syrup per season, and I do enjoy experimenting with tapping times on certain trees or certain areas of trees. For me it seems like I get my lightest colored syrup out of the early taps.

[Swingpure]

Well, I will have two more checkpoints before I know for sure about the impact of tapping early is to flow volumes. I have to say I expected more flow the last few days from them. One checkpoint will be this evening, as this morning the temperature dropped to -7° C / 19.4°F and is forecasted to reach +6° C / 42.8° F with the barometer dropping. If I do not get good flow today, I will start to have my answer. The final and definitive check point will be when I do my other taps, as I will have one line tapped in December and another identical line that will be just tapped, both flowing into the same barrel and I will be able to observe the flows from the ends of the tubes.

I have no regrets tapping this past December, it was a fun experiment, and I got to do it with my Grandkids and family, so that alone made it worth while. I also had extra taps and will still have about 150 taps still to tap, which will keep me more than busy.

If it turns out the taps I did in December are already significantly closing, would I do it again. Likely not. I would only do it again if it matched up with a visit from my grandkids, which would be a rare event.

It was fun and my grandson has the bottle of syrup he helped make on his shelf in his bedroom, so no more needs to be said.

[aamyotte]

Well, I will have two more checkpoints before I know for sure about the impact of tapping early is to flow volumes. I have to say I expected more flow the last few days from them. One checkpoint will be this evening, as this morning the temperature dropped to -7° C / 19.4°F and is forecasted to reach +6° C / 42.8° F with the barometer dropping. If I do not get good flow today, I will start to have my answer. The final and definitive check point will be when I do my other taps, as I will have one line tapped in December and another identical line that will be just tapped, both flowing into the same barrel and I will be able to observe the flows from the ends of the tubes.

I have no regrets tapping this past December, it was a fun experiment, and I got to do it with my Grandkids and family, so that alone made it worth while. I also had extra taps and will still have about 150 taps still to tap, which will keep me more than busy.

If it turns out the taps I did in December are already significantly closing, would I do it again. Likely not. I would only do it again if it matched up with a visit from my grandkids, which would be a rare event.

It was fun and my grandson has the bottle of syrup he helped make on his shelf in his bedroom, so no more needs to be said.

The memories your grandson has makes it worthwhile. I remember tapping trees as a kid at my grandfather's sugar bush with a hand brace.

[Pdiamond]

Gary, Trust me your Grandson will always remember doing that with you for the rest of his life. When he talks about it later in life he will get that far off stare like he can see you and him doing those things all over again.

[Swingpure]

Today was the first day where I had sap running in a line that I tapped in December, and also two lines that I tapped a couple days ago, all draining into the same barrel. It was a good opportunity to see how the sap was flowing from taps 7 weeks old versus two days old. The 7 week old taps ran as well or better than the new ones. Not a scientific method, but I compared the drop rate of the lines.

We will have to see how they are flowing two weeks from now.

Today was a day I thought the sap would be racing, where it would dribble a steady stream out of the tubes, but they only dripped. I am not sure if that is because it is February, or just some days are like that.