Leaves falling quickly off a few trees

[lafite]

I'm curious if there is any health issues with 2 of my 80 year old sugar maple trees. I have about 70 on my property, but these two by the house dropped all their leaves within a couple of days well before the rest of the trees. They barely had a yellow color and no orange like the majority of them.

Does anyone else have trees that drop quickly?

[CTguy923]

i have all reds but , a couple are almost bare while the rest still have half their leaves yet

[Swingpure]

My experience is that it is just an individual genetic tree thing. Each year the same trees are the first to either lose their leaves or hang onto their leaves. I have some maple trees that hang onto their leaves well into winter.

[Pdiamond]

I have one that is at the corner of the house that is almost completely void of leaves, but I think that is because it is also in the open where the wind can get to it more and blow them off easier. Some of my other yard trees still have leaves and are close to full, they are also closer to the woods.

[Swingpure]

I have one that is at the corner of the house that is almost completely void of leaves, but I think that is because it is also in the open where the wind can get to it more and blow them off easier. Some of my other yard trees still have leaves and are close to full, they are also closer to the woods.

90% of the leaves are off almost all of the trees here, although the rare tree almost has all of their leaves. The colours this year were spectacular.

[Pdiamond]

They are dropping fast now here with all the wind we are having. I still have several that are pretty full though.

[Pdiamond]

Yes, the colors were very nice here too. My hickory trees were beautiful. The beech trees are just starting to turn, but they are always the last ones around me to get brown and the leaves will hang on most of the winter, at least some of them.

[Sugar Bear]

I'm curious if there is any health issues with 2 of my 80 year old sugar maple trees. I have about 70 on my property, but these two by the house dropped all their leaves within a couple of days well before the rest of the trees. They barely had a yellow color and no orange like the majority of them.

Does anyone else have trees that drop quickly?

My leaves dropped very quickly and relatively THOROUGHLY within a tight timeframe during the last week of October. Some Norwegian Maples, as they usually do, still hold some leaves. And so do some oaks.

We have had EXCEPTIONALLY tranquil weather, with little to no wind driven rain this year. And that is clearly one of the factors that allowed the leaves to stay attached and all just say "I have had it" at about the same time.

Additionally, I think the drought over the summer is a factor somewhat too. With your two trees near your house, I suspect they may have more open space around them, and that ground even dried out more than other ground covered by leaves in the woods. So, the fashion in which they said "I have had it" may have been different.

Otherwise, if I am wrong, I send my sincere condolences.

[Sugar Bear]

My experience is that it is just an individual genetic tree thing. Each year the same trees are the first to either lose their leaves or hang onto their leaves. I have some maple trees that hang onto their leaves well into winter.

The term for trees holding onto leaves into the winter is called marcescence. It is caused by early season hard frost relative to the typical time a tree loses its leaves. Around here at our Lat Long we get it in Beech trees and Oak trees. Not very common in Maples of any kind at our Lat Long. But at your Lat Long I surmise the Maple may be the tree of choice for marcescence, probably because your Lat Long and or altitude is more likely to have a hard early season frost relative to the time the Maple typically loses its leaves.

I did a quick run to the top of Camels Hump last Friday and noticed I could not find a tree anywhere in the region that still had a leaf on it. No sign of any marcescence anywhere either. And not much of any really hard frost anywhere in that region yet this year either.

So marcescence this year looks like it will take place at a minimum.

Let me know what you see on your maples this winter. I would be curious to know.

[Swingpure]

The term for trees holding onto leaves into the winter is called marcescence. It is caused by early season hard frost relative to the typical time a tree loses its leaves. Around here at our Lat Long we get it in Beech trees and Oak trees. Not very common in Maples of any kind at our Lat Long. But at your Lat Long I surmise the Maple may be the tree of choice for marcescence, probably because your Lat Long and or altitude is more likely to have a hard early season frost relative to the time the Maple typically loses its leaves.

I did a quick run to the top of Camels Hump last Friday and noticed I could not find a tree anywhere in the region that still had a leaf on it. No sign of any marcescence anywhere either. And not much of any really hard frost anywhere in that region yet this year either.

So marcescence this year looks like it will take place at a minimum.

Let me know what you see on your maples this winter. I would be curious to know.

This is one of the maple tree I was talking about that hangs onto their leaves well after all of the other maples.

This was last year on November 19th
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0026TVjGT8USm1XjBg6QwgUxw

This is this year, not quite as many leaves, but this picture was just taken, in moonlight, so not as detailed.
https://share.icloud.com/photos/09bIm0mOp89Z2hEu0g5Iy60ig

This is another maple (on the right) that hangs onto it’s leaves, about 25 feet away from the other, taken last year on December 10th
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0ecb1QpO_g2HQ-ODx1SFW0ftg

The Oak trees always hang onto some of theirs well into the winter. (Although this year a number of them have lost all of their leaves already.)

Our forests have a lot of maple, but also a fair amount of Oak, mixed in with yellow and white birch, beech, basswood, ironwood, white pine, hemlock and cedar and others.

[Sugar Bear]

This is one of the maple tree I was talking about that hangs onto their leaves well after all of the other maples.

The Oak trees always hang onto some of theirs well into the winter. (Although this year a number of them have lost all of their leaves already.)


Those photos of the maples are exemplars of marcescence. Exactly why and how come it occurs is really still unknown. Lots of conjecture. One of the thoughts is how green the leaves still are on a given tree at the time of a first very hard frost of the season.

Let me guess on your past 6 weeks? You have had some frosts but nothing hard or severe while the leaves were turning over? Probably getting some hard stuff frost now. But everything is down by now. So little to no marcescencing this year.

The Norwegian makes the argument that not all trees are susceptible or even capable of marcescence as they frequently stay with some green even well into the season of hard frosts, year after year, but then suddenly just drop all of their leaves entirely rarely, if ever showing any signs of any marcescence.

[DRoseum]

I believe norway maples are more likely to exhibit marcescence than other maple species given they hold their leaves longer.

[Sugar Bear]

I believe norway maples are more likely to exhibit marcescence than other maple species given they hold their leaves longer.

Marcescence is when the leaves stay attached to the tree and the leaves actually crinkle up, die and dry out on the tree but yet stay attached to the tree even through windy snow storms through the winter.

There is conjecture that the tree reabsorbs some of the nutrients in the leaves as it does this. Perhaps Tim Perkins knows something about that.

While Norway Maples hold their leaves later into the season more than any other tree, they seem to drop their leaves in entirety by December 22 in every case I have ever seen. They almost never seem to "marcescence" any of their leaves even though they "typically" take the longest to actually turn off their green and drop their leaves.

And so they in my opinion support the conjecture that "marcescnece" is at least somewhat species dependent as well as weather dependent.

[Swingpure]

Those photos of the maples are exemplars of marcescence. Exactly why and how come it occurs is really still unknown. Lots of conjecture. One of the thoughts is how green the leaves still are on a given tree at the time of a first very hard frost of the season.

Let me guess on your past 6 weeks? You have had some frosts but nothing hard or severe while the leaves were turning over? Probably getting some hard stuff frost now. But everything is down by now. So little to no marcescencing this year.

The Norwegian makes the argument that not all trees are susceptible or even capable of marcescence as they frequently stay with some green even well into the season of hard frosts, year after year, but then suddenly just drop all of their leaves entirely rarely, if ever showing any signs of any marcescence.

Actually this year we did not have many frosts, but I agree these trees are good examples of marcescence.

Because these same trees exhibit marcescence every year, I think there is a genetic component to it. Just my guess.

[Sugar Bear]

Actually this year we did not have many frosts, but I agree these trees are good examples of marcescence.

Because these same trees exhibit marcescence every year, I think there is a genetic component to it. Just my guess.


Yes I agree. But early freezing temps do seem to play a factor too I think in the rate it occurs in its favorite tree type, from season to season. Specifically, the hard and early frost being more impactful with regards to the amount of marcescence.

It also seems to be more prevalent in the younger trees with the species. Not as much so with oaks.

Norwegian Maples hold their leaves the longest but once they turn from green to yellow, they hold them no longer than any other tree. In fact, they lose them at that point faster than most other trees.

And I believe I have yet to see a Norwegian Maple that has gone from green to marcescence state. To do so the tree would have to bypass the yellow color state of its leaves and go from green directly to marcescence state which is about the same color on your photos.

The color of tree leaves in a marcescence state is about the same color across all tree types. As everybody knows, the color of tree leaves that go from green to typical fall foliage and drop off varies widely across the different tree types.

Bottom line here is it is important not to mistake a tree in a marcescence state as dead or unhealthy, but rather recognized as just another aspect of Charlie Darwin at work.

[DrTimPerkins]

My professional opinion, after decades of research, is trees (like people) can sometimes do odd things, and that sometimes a few individuals can be just plain weird. You'll find that it is often hard to find a lot of info on the odd things, and even more unlikely that there is much on the really weird stuff, unless it's weird in a really interesting or meaningful way.

[berkshires]

While Norway Maples hold their leaves later into the season more than any other tree, they seem to drop their leaves in entirety by December 22 in every case I have ever seen.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. In my neck of the woods, the trees that are most likely to still have some leaves on them by end of winter are beech, some kinds of oak, and Norway maple.

In fact, I was going to make a joke that I agree with Swingpure that there's a genetic component to the trees he sees holding the leaves. The genetic component being that they're a different species - they're probably Norway maples!

GO

[Swingpure]

In fact, I was going to make a joke that I agree with Swingpure that there's a genetic component to the trees he sees holding the leaves. The genetic component being that they're a different species - they're probably Norway maples!

GO

100% for sure it is a sugar maple. Even when this tree was a pup (sapling), it kept it’s leaves well after the others. Norway maples are considered an invasive species here and to be honest I do not think there are any or very many in our area.

Picture is from 10 years ago, not very sharp, but you can still see the leaves on it. The tree had been in the shadow of a much larger white pine tree. Once the white pine was removed, the maple flourished.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/055ZQDl6hQcqZ--UcM3ITiKWA

[berkshires]

Well okay if you say 100% sure, I'll trust you, even though you say there are very few in your area for you to compare to. When they're young you can't really tell by bark, you have to look at the buds and samaras (seed pods). That said, like the good Doctor said, trees are like the rest of us, some of us are just a little weird. Guess you got some weirdos over there!

Cheers,

Gabe

[Sugar Bear]

I'm surprised to hear you say that. In my neck of the woods, the trees that are most likely to still have some leaves on them by end of winter are beech, some kinds of oak, and Norway maple.

In fact, I was going to make a joke that I agree with Swingpure that there's a genetic component to the trees he sees holding the leaves. The genetic component being that they're a different species - they're probably Norway maples!

GO

Around here it's also the Beech and oaks (dominantly so in the pin and scarlet oaks) that the leaves actually die on and do not fall off and remain on through the winter. The leaves actually shrivel up on the tree and stay attached. Sometimes it happens in small sugar maples as well. While the Norwegians in my area do hold their leaves as green leaves far longer than any other tree, they always turn yellow after that and fall off in entirety usually by mid-December. They never shrivel up to a brown color and stay attached to a tree. And I am not talking about a small sample size of Norwegians. About 30 of them. So, I never see the Norwegians be "weird" so to speak. Likewise, I never see those Large leafed Asian maples with the purple leaves be "weird" as well.

And I always have to do a secondary leaf blow of Norwegian Leaves in mid-December.

So, it seems like that process of leaf shriveling and staying attached all winter is part of the indigenous strains of trees only. At least in Maples around here anyway.

[Swingpure]

Well okay if you say 100% sure, I'll trust you, even though you say there are very few in your area for you to compare to. When they're young you can't really tell by bark, you have to look at the buds and samaras (seed pods). That said, like the good Doctor said, trees are like the rest of us, some of us are just a little weird. Guess you got some weirdos over there!

Cheers,

Gabe

The leaves are also different.

https://share.icloud.com/photos/07bnNFBz4XKMLuMxbCAb7tcTw

As mentioned it could be something unique and individualistic about these trees. The maples could be sensitive to being called weird, so I will call them special! 😜

I actually look forward to seeing the leaves on the trees each year and some of the leaves are still on in April. They show up in a number of pictures and videos over the years.

https://youtu.be/7uWASBMT16A