Cooking Time for Maple Syrup?

[Andy VT]

I've been having some anxiety over my syrup flavor and finally figured out, I think, how to formulate it into a question, after a bit of background:

I am still new at this and intend to stay small, and I think I'll be "batching" for a while yet.
After watching videos and reading blogs of batchers adding and adding and adding more raw sap to the same pot all day long, making the syrup darker and darker, I reacted this year by painstakingly making sure no sap droplet stayed hot any longer than it had to to become syrup.

I thought my syrup tasted a little plain; not very "maply", and I suspect it is because I overdid it on the "overcooking prevention".

So here is my question: Is there some kind of guideline on how long a drop of sap (or maybe sugar molecule) ought to "cook" for best caramelization and flavor? I suspect this topic has made it into the limelight in the wake of high-brix RO. Maybe the same info could be helpful for batchers like me to get things just right.

I apologize in advance if the producers manual totally answers this question... I'm now reading it cover to cover but very slowly... still in chapter 5 :lol:

Andy

[Pdiamond]

I will give it to you plain and simple. Most use a syrup hydrometer to test when it reaches 66.9 brix. there is also a baume reading, but I don't remember what it is. You can also use a thermometer. Check the temperature at which water boils. Then add 7 degrees to that temperature and it should be syrup.

[Andy VT]

I will give it to you plain and simple. Most use a syrup hydrometer to test when it reaches 66.9 brix. there is also a baume reading, but I don't remember what it is. You can also use a thermometer. Check the temperature at which water boils. Then add 7 degrees to that temperature and it should be syrup.
I did this, and I ended up with syrup. I'm asking about the dwell time of the sap. You can keep adding sap all day long into the pan, such that the first sap has been boiling an entire day. Or you start in a big pan or multiple pans and work down to minimize the time each droplet "cooks". Either way, you are stopping at 66.9 brix. But I think the flavor might differ, and surely the color would differ.
There are two things that made me think of the question. I've read that for high brix RO you have to re-think the evaporator to make sure the sap has enough boiling time to have the right flavor. And on the RO bucket website it mentions this can be an issue even with traditional RO or even no RO in very small batches.
I was no-RO, very small batch.

So, it finally morphed into a question of whether it is known, or has been studied, what is the ideal amount of time the sap boils (in a given flat, non-divided pan, this would amount to what is the ideal batch size for flavor and maybe color)

[maple flats]

Since we are used to using a continuous flow evaporator, (sap or RO concentrate enters in the flue pan and as it evaporates and new enters, it winds it's way thru the channels until it's finally syrup), that answer is hard to answer.
You may have stumbled onto the answer, however. My suggestion is to experiment. In general, the less time the syrup boils the lighter it is, your method resulted in it being too short. Try adding a portion equal to your starting amount and see how it is, then try 3x and so forth. The result will yield ever darker color and more intense maple flavor.
You will discover as the syrup gains more color the flavor increases. Just decide which you like best and then repeat that method.
Just as an aside, I'll comment on my own experience, I sell about 95% of my syrup retail and in the past I always had troble selling Golden syrup. I do sell some but I end up mixing a little darker syrup into much of it to yield Amber or Dark. For years dark was by far my best seller, at about 3 dark to 2 amber, recently (last 2 years maybe they have moved closer to 1:1 amber to dark. If I sell out of either amber or dark, the remaining grade seems to be bought, but still not golden for here in central NYS. Golden is still way down below those. These relationships are not universal, I believe in Vermont they sell more Golden but I don't know their ratios.

[Swingpure]

I've been having some anxiety over my syrup flavor and finally figured out, I think, how to formulate it into a question, after a bit of background:

I am still new at this and intend to stay small, and I think I'll be "batching" for a while yet.
After watching videos and reading blogs of batchers adding and adding and adding more raw sap to the same pot all day long, making the syrup darker and darker, I reacted this year by painstakingly making sure no sap droplet stayed hot any longer than it had to to become syrup.

I thought my syrup tasted a little plain; not very "maply", and I suspect it is because I overdid it on the "overcooking prevention".

So here is my question: Is there some kind of guideline on how long a drop of sap (or maybe sugar molecule) ought to "cook" for best caramelization and flavor? I suspect this topic has made it into the limelight in the wake of high-brix RO. Maybe the same info could be helpful for batchers like me to get things just right.

I apologize in advance if the producers manual totally answers this question... I'm now reading it cover to cover but very slowly... still in chapter 5 :lol:

Andy

I am not sure if this helps, but not so much time, but how many gallons. I sort of batched it with 5 steams pans. When I boiled 40 gallons of sap, all of it was boiled basically for the full time.

When I had 70+ gallons to do in one boil, I boiled it basically in two batches, taking the first 40 gallons off half way through the boil.

I was told by many people my syrup was the best syrup they had ever tasted.

Not sure if that helps or not.

Gary

[Pdiamond]

When I had my flat pan I never thought about what you are discussing. I always boiled until the sap was gone and I collected again and would start a new batch in the pan. My syrup was never a light syrup, but always had a good flavor.

[berkshires]

The answer is it depends on who you ask. Some swear that a syrup made by taking the sap halfway to syrup in a cold RO and then boiling it for a tiny amount of time tastes indistinguishable from a syrup boiled in a traditional way. Many of us find this difficult to believe, given our own experience (as you have found). Where this leaves us is that it is really up to you as the producer to find the method that works for you, as Maple Flats suggested.

Cheers,

Gabe

[DrTimPerkins]

A fair amount of research has already been done on this. Doesn't stop people believing what they want...but in many cases myths are hard to break.

https://mapleresearch.org/search/?_sf_s=flavor%20reverse%20osmosis

[Andy VT]

A fair amount of research has already been done on this. Doesn't stop people believing what they want...but in many cases myths are hard to break.
Fun discussion everyone! I've got stuff to think about from every response. Tim, I believe it fully, and honestly wouldn't had it not been for the study. So, it paid off! :lol: However, what I was referring to in my inquiry, was the "does not substantially impact the composition or flavor of syrup produced, particularly when adjustments to processing conditions (such as the depth of liquid in pans and the ratio of flue to syrup pans) are made to accommodate higher RO concentration levels" from the producers manual.

I do not claim to understand yet quite what this means, and I guess that is sort of why I started this thread. That could be another way of phrasing my original question: What does the quote about adjustments mean exactly? And could it apply to my backyard situation?

My theory is that, although I was boiling sap straight from the tree (no RO), since I was pushing the absolute extremes of small batch (finished batch sizes ranging from a pint to a quart) and what I'm calling low "cook" time (aka never adding raw sap to reduced sap in the same undivided pan), and also the fact that my setup barely brought the sap to a boil until I brought the concentrate into the kitchen (very low and slow until the final boil), that I now need to consider whatever those "adjustments" are.

One of the equipment websites... Leader I think, but I might be wrong on that... did expound on the "adjustments" for high brix, claiming something to the effect (I'm interpreting what I remember reading) that basically you need to consider a smaller pan, perhaps all flat-bottomed, for the given batch to make sure the sap dwells long enough for the traditional caramelization. I could be butchering that badly, and I could even have been reading mis-information for all I know.

But anyway, that's sort of what I'm asking. What are those "adjustments" about, and could they apply to tiny-batch backyard syrup making.

All the same, love that study! I'm a believer! Love reading up (and watching) all that Proctor and other maple research venues have to offer. Got a lot to learn about sugaring as well as the scientific method and how to combine the two.

I should add, my syrup did taste good and tasted like maple syrup... just didn't quite seem to have the maply punch I usually expect from all but the lightest grades, and was surprised that it never seemed to get particularly dark even at the end of the season.

[Andy VT]

I thought of an interesting observation I didn't connect to this topic until now. This year I was doing my best to study the difference between norway maple and sugar maple for syrup making, so I kept the sap from each separate as often as I could, boiling simultaneously in separate pans. I had 5 taps of norway and 4 taps sugar maple, but the sap yield in pure gallons was roughly half, maybe a bit more than half, for the norways (a difference possibly more about tree size than species). The Norway maple syrup from the same run was much lighter in color than the syrup from sugar maple consistently throughout the season until April when it switched, possibly due to differences in bacteria in the buckets or possibly not. But I'm now realizing my batch sizes for norway were much smaller, and that could have been a factor in the color difference.

The other observation as I reflect on it is that when I did combine all sap together, it resulted in the best tasting syrup. These were the largest batches of all. And the absolute best tasting batch was one where I took some candy I made and added it back into a batch to become syrup again in one of the larger mixed batches.

All just food for thought for now. More experimenting next year (2022 was a focus on norway vs sugar... I think 2023 is shaping up to be a large-batch versus small-batch experiment). I will note that one of the biggest things I've learned so far is that usually if I make an observation and link it to a cause, I later find I can't repeat it, thus blowing whatever theory I had. And this is why I love what Proctor does.... striving to find out what actually repeats and what doesn't! I'm gonna keep reading and watching whatever comes out of there. Thanks Dr Tim for all your work over there, and pass that along to Dr Abby and Mark and everyone else! I'll be sure to get some hands-on flavor feedback from Mark and the other judges next September. I still don't quite trust my flavor judgement. I think I'm learning to understand what I like but that doesn't matter for anyone else who ever tries my syrup. Didn't think fast enough to enter this year.