Very small maple leaves

[tgormley358]

I’m considering purchase of a VT property for retirement and will continue my sugaring hobby there, looking for a Min of 500 taps. I’ve found a place, but when I looked yestersay at some of the sugar maples, they appear to have much smaller leaves than I’m used to seeing in MA. In MA they’re like the stereotypical 4-6” across, but the leaves I saw yesterday looked like 2-3”. Is that a tree health issue? It’s on a fairly steep slope, Which I’ve heard can affect how much nutrient trees have available and can absorb. Will these smaller leaves affect sap volume or sugar % ?? I have noticed these smaller leaves in VT before but not so consistently as these yesterday. The location is Stockbridge.

Thanks.

Tom

[Pdiamond]

What type of maple tree are they? Red maples or Sugar maples

[tgormley358]

What type of maple tree are they? Red maples or Sugar maples

Although I haven’t looked at every tree of course, I believe the vast majority is Sugarmaple including the ones I saw with the small leaves. This is based on the Forrester’s report for the property that I have read Which says sugar maple

[tgormley358]

I’m attaching a pic or two from this sugar bush, of a tree with the smaller leaves. Most or all of the trees look like this. I’m this pic there’s a tulip tree next to the sugar maple that provides a comparison. While tulip tree leaves are probably bigger in average, this pic shows a much bigger difference in size than I typically see. So if these tulip leaves are say 6”, the sugar maple leaves are at most 3”. Thanks for all input - hoping Proctor might have research on this, so Dr Tim might weigh in.

Tom

[tgormley358]

Sorry having trouble with upload of pic. It just says Error file not uploaded.

[DrTimPerkins]

...hoping Proctor might have research on this, so Dr Tim might weigh in.

Impossible to diagnose with such a general description, no photos, no descriptive background info on the trees, soils, site, history. Even if we did a site visit it would be difficult to know for certain. Sort of like asking why a kid might an itch. :confused:

[wobbletop]

Use imgur.com or imgbb.com

[maple flats]

Just a guess, but ask a local sugarmaker (local to the new property) if they had significant forest tent caterpillar damage. If the trees are defoliated by forest tent caterpillars, they will refoliate, in such a case the new leaves could be small at this point.
Alternatively ask the local co-operative extension office in that county.

[Pdiamond]

When I looked up maple trees for some information one of the items was leaf size. It did state that anywhere from 2-3" could be normal for the tree, based on location, soil, etc.... Average was between 3 to 6" for sugar maple. You may be okay.

[TapTapTap]

Tom,

Congratulations on you decision to move to Vermont!

I'm no Forester but I have these points to consider

Look at the general health and diversity of the woods. You want a good mix of tree species and wildlife. I personally would prefer a diverse forest with a wide variety of wildlife to the most awesome maple grove. I encourage you to look for a variety of bird species which are fun to watch this time of year. Wildlife ranging from newts all the way up to bear and moose are fun to observe in your woods even when some don't make it easier for a sugar maker.

While it's possible that the entire population of maples are inflicted with a disease, it doesn't ever seem to affect every last one unless we're talking about insect infestation which might be observed in other tree conditions. It seems to me that your maples have inherited smaller leaves. And, I assume that sap production is more a function of the total mass of leaves on a tree than just individual leaf size.


Ken

[PCFarms]

last year, all our driveway maples had really small leaves. This year, the trees look really healthy, as they usually do. It could be a one-off issue as it was with us. It might have been caused by a late frost in our area last year.

[tgormley358]

Thanks Ken and others for your thoughts and ideas. The property on question has been sold to another buyer so our search continues, but I’m glad to be learning from what we found with maples in this property. It’s funn you mention the general forest health including critters, because I comparison you a couple dozen other properties we’ve walked, this had less deer and moose scat that’s we’ve seen. We wondered about that, but have found no explanation. A forester local to the area however said his guess would be pear thrips, an sap sucking insect I hadn’t heard before. There were no leaves low enough on these trees to grab and look at up close, so my observations were all at a distance of at least 30’.

Tom